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Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game?

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Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#61 - 2016-01-31 01:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
sero Hita wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:

This "one more" was the straw that broke the camel's back. Char Bazaar was tolerable because of RMT abuse, but this is CCP taken full advantage of that excuse to introduce flat out pay2win in Eve to max out the mighty bucks. CCP lies, deceives, betrays and try to manipulate everyone into thinking that it's the same as Char Bazaar but better. Better? For whom? And for what purpose? ...CCP goes silent.

I can see only scrubs been fully taken in by this cheap insta-gratifying feature because they never want to earn things like everyone else and is always looking for the easy win solutions.


So, no one listened to you about the change because you went with the "Don't implement or your game will die" ultimatum argument, you are apparently not leaving the game(??????) and have resorted to name calling. That is classy Roll

I was really about to leave actually, but then I decided to do something that I never done before in Eve.

Suicide ganking. Twisted

And one of my soon to be victims is in this thread.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#62 - 2016-01-31 01:46:37 UTC
To the people who say "but the char bazaar exists" I would just like to say that for many people there is an attachment to their character. Having to buy another character with it's associated past and some useless skills acts as a deterrent to taking the easy route. With these extractors where is the downside? Char bazaar and extractors are not the same thing and I could see many more people buying SP than before the extractors were released.

I, like others, don't think that this move will attract the type of player that eve needs. I can only see it lessening the involvement people feel with the game. I mean isk already seems sort of meaningless given you can buy a plex, if SP is also meaningless then what about your character makes him special? Will the next change be the introduction of "classes" with SP already allocated because injectors are too much hassle?

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Dyllan Ma'tar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2016-01-31 02:08:45 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
what about your character makes him special?


SP never made your character special, it only prescribed the ability of that character in game to do a thing. Nothing more. If SP is the only thing special about your character, then I regret to inform you that your character was never special.
Avvy
Doomheim
#64 - 2016-01-31 02:44:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Mr Mieyli wrote:
To the people who say "but the char bazaar exists" I would just like to say that for many people there is an attachment to their character. Having to buy another character with it's associated past and some useless skills acts as a deterrent to taking the easy route. With these extractors where is the downside? Char bazaar and extractors are not the same thing and I could see many more people buying SP than before the extractors were released.

I, like others, don't think that this move will attract the type of player that eve needs. I can only see it lessening the involvement people feel with the game. I mean isk already seems sort of meaningless given you can buy a plex, if SP is also meaningless then what about your character makes him special? Will the next change be the introduction of "classes" with SP already allocated because injectors are too much hassle?



I wouldn't use the character bazaar because I wouldn't feel the character is mine. Although I would have no issue in using sp packets.

All the character bazaar and sp packets do is save you time. Time saved is just time where you don't even have any input, you just have to wait and a fair amount of that time you are not even logged in.

If you think that the skill queue involves you, other than initially setting it up. Think again. The skill queue is required so that you can do more things in-game and improving the stats from the skills as you level them. But the skill queue as far as your gaming goes is only a small part of the game.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#65 - 2016-01-31 04:36:45 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left.

There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game.

The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded.

Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months.


Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance.

Just Add Water
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2016-01-31 04:43:37 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
To the people who say "but the char bazaar exists" I would just like to say that for many people there is an attachment to their character. Having to buy another character with it's associated past and some useless skills acts as a deterrent to taking the easy route. With these extractors where is the downside? Char bazaar and extractors are not the same thing and I could see many more people buying SP than before the extractors were released.

I, like others, don't think that this move will attract the type of player that eve needs. I can only see it lessening the involvement people feel with the game. I mean isk already seems sort of meaningless given you can buy a plex, if SP is also meaningless then what about your character makes him special? Will the next change be the introduction of "classes" with SP already allocated because injectors are too much hassle?



I wouldn't use the character bazaar because I wouldn't feel the character is mine. Although I would have no issue in using sp packets.


[snip]


Which is why drawing an equivalence between the character bazaar and the SP market is not quite the same.

And again, why is everyone saying "Oh, it won't destroy the game so why worry?" Really, that is the bar? It won't destroy the game so it is okay?

Jesus guys, pull your head out of your fourth point of contact before you suffocate.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#67 - 2016-01-31 05:04:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
No

CCP is thinking long game.

They've got their Corp/alliance alt plants "blacklisting" ppl who've shown a willingness to drop alot of cash in the game atm, outsiders who remain uncontrollable, in the hopes of manipulating them into wanting to buy whole new characters for a "fresh start" to then pump with the skill points available on the market.

It'll be interesting to see how it works. If more people are willing to just say "**** it" and not participate after the banishings, it might be more long term cash lost. . . but having seen the . . . . . . people who retreat mentally. . . . . I assume they're not going to let the opportunity to prove everyone wrong slip by and they'll latch onto this development with a ferocity.

But then it doesn't really matter because like 90% of the people wont understand anyways.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2016-01-31 05:18:01 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
what about your character makes him special?


How many alts do you have in this game where the identity of your character is oh so important?
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#69 - 2016-01-31 05:34:12 UTC
Dyllan Ma'tar wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
what about your character makes him special?


SP never made your character special, it only prescribed the ability of that character in game to do a thing. Nothing more. If SP is the only thing special about your character, then I regret to inform you that your character was never special.

That is for whom the char belongs to, to decide if their char is special or not. You or any others have no say in the matter.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#70 - 2016-01-31 05:41:37 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Dyllan Ma'tar wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
what about your character makes him special?


SP never made your character special, it only prescribed the ability of that character in game to do a thing. Nothing more. If SP is the only thing special about your character, then I regret to inform you that your character was never special.

That is for whom the char belongs to, to decide if their char is special or not. You or any others have no say in the matter.


from my post earlier:

Nat Silverguard wrote:

Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance.

Just Add Water
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2016-01-31 06:24:53 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
what about your character makes him special?

Well,mine has my actual name on it. So there's that.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2016-01-31 06:29:50 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Which is why drawing an equivalence between the character bazaar and the SP market is not quite the same.

And again, why is everyone saying "Oh, it won't destroy the game so why worry?" Really, that is the bar? It won't destroy the game so it is okay?

Jesus guys, pull your head out of your fourth point of contact before you suffocate.
The equivalence is drawn because the points of difference are either subjective and inconsistent or more often ignoring the fact that the character bazaar is and has been used to get around SP constraints.

Also you're oversimplifying or potentially reading more into some replies than you should be. "It won't destroy/ruin the game" is a response that makes sense in a thread titled "Will SP Buying Ruin the Game?" As a direct response to the question the op is asking, you should probably avoid reading anything more into it than that.

Besides, given the for the most part lack of coherent negative consequences stated (despite frequent, "passionate" condemnation of the idea) I'd say there's an entirely different crowd in need of a fresh breath of air.

Daniela Doran wrote:
I was really about to leave actually, but then I decided to do something that I never done before in Eve.

Suicide ganking. Twisted

And one of my soon to be victims is in this thread.
Manipulating a member of the community into participating in the destructive tendencies that fuel both your content and in game economies all from a change that the player themselves claims will destroy one if not both...

...well done CCP. Well done.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#73 - 2016-01-31 06:40:42 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left.

There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game.

The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded.

Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months.


Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance.

I'm trying to figure out your reasonings for asking this question? Like do you really not know? Or are trying to convince me that this feature isn't pay2win, which in this case is a waste of time.

Anytime a game provides a feature that allows your char to advanced in skill or abilities by bypassing in-game mechanics in exchange for currency is what is called "pay2win".

In Eve the most valuable commodities are:
1) SP (because it can only be accumulated through "time")
2) PS (Player Skill that allows you to use your SP to it's fullest potential)
3) ISK ( in game currency, needed to buy the ships, supplies and shiny trinkets)

As you can see here, SP is the most valuable commodity in Eve because whether people realize it or not, Time is the one thing that cannot be bought in RL which makes it the most precious thing a person can have in his/her lifetime. What made Eve special was that it incorporated a powerful RL commodity as "Time" and made it a central part of the game's core mechanic that allows the players in it to evolve in the same way we all do as people in real time. And now that precious commodity is up for sale in exchange for the mighty buck.

The people who cannot see the problem with this SP trading are the people that don't know the true value of "Time" and take it for granted. For CCP it's sheer greed.

Edit: After the SP trading goes lives the most valuable commodities in Eve would be:
1) Visa, Master Card, American Express, Discover
2) PS
3) ISK
Arisidana
Amadari Traders
#74 - 2016-01-31 06:42:46 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:


Daniela Doran wrote:
I was really about to leave actually, but then I decided to do something that I never done before in Eve.

Suicide ganking. Twisted

And one of my soon to be victims is in this thread.


Manipulating a member of the community into participating in the destructive tendencies that fuel both your content and in game economies all from a change that the player themselves claims will destroy one if not both...

...well done CCP. Well done.



...so, SP injectors are content creators?
Brilliant idea CCP. Lol
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2016-01-31 06:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Arisidana wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:


Daniela Doran wrote:
I was really about to leave actually, but then I decided to do something that I never done before in Eve.

Suicide ganking. Twisted

And one of my soon to be victims is in this thread.


Manipulating a member of the community into participating in the destructive tendencies that fuel both your content and in game economies all from a change that the player themselves claims will destroy one if not both...

...well done CCP. Well done.



...so, SP injectors are content creators?
Brilliant idea CCP. Lol
Maybe I misread, thought she said she was suicide ganking, not selling injectors.

Wait, yes, she did say ganking. Interesting.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#76 - 2016-01-31 07:04:23 UTC
Arisidana wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:


Daniela Doran wrote:
I was really about to leave actually, but then I decided to do something that I never done before in Eve.

Suicide ganking. Twisted

And one of my soon to be victims is in this thread.


Manipulating a member of the community into participating in the destructive tendencies that fuel both your content and in game economies all from a change that the player themselves claims will destroy one if not both...

...well done CCP. Well done.



...so, SP injectors are content creators?
Brilliant idea CCP. Lol

This is game is gonna be dead in the water 12-18 months from now and I still have 6 months game time left, so.....might as well have some fun in that time.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#77 - 2016-01-31 07:22:10 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left.

There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game.

The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded.

Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months.


Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance.

I'm trying to figure out your reasonings for asking this question? Like do you really not know? Or are trying to convince me that this feature isn't pay2win, which in this case is a waste of time.

Anytime a game provides a feature that allows your char to advanced in skill or abilities by bypassing in-game mechanics in exchange for currency is what is called "pay2win".

In Eve the most valuable commodities are:
1) SP (because it can only be accumulated through "time")
2) PS (Player Skill that allows you to use your SP to it's fullest potential)
3) ISK ( in game currency, needed to buy the ships, supplies and shiny trinkets)

As you can see here, SP is the most valuable commodity in Eve because whether people realize it or not, Time is the one thing that cannot be bought in RL which makes it the most precious thing a person can have in his/her lifetime. What made Eve special was that it incorporated a powerful RL commodity as "Time" and made it a central part of the game's core mechanic that allows the players in it to evolve in the same way we all do as people in real time. And now that precious commodity is up for sale in exchange for the mighty buck.

The people who cannot see the problem with this SP trading are the people that don't know the true value of "Time" and take it for granted. For CCP it's sheer greed.

Edit: After the SP trading goes lives the most valuable commodities in Eve would be:
1) Visa, Master Card, American Express, Discover
2) PS
3) ISK




you really can't answer my question can you, especially the part when i asked a specific scenario sample? Smile

all you ever did was label this feature as pay2win but im afraid you yourself don't understand the term. there's definitely a "pay" involved, but where's the "win" part?

my point is to establish your definition of "winning". and how is having more SP = winning and therefore able to pay for SP is pay2win. if you believe that having more SP = winning then so be it, but not all of us are that dumb, sorry. Lol

Just Add Water
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#78 - 2016-01-31 07:35:01 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left.

There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game.

The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded.

Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months.


Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance.

I'm trying to figure out your reasonings for asking this question? Like do you really not know? Or are trying to convince me that this feature isn't pay2win, which in this case is a waste of time.

Anytime a game provides a feature that allows your char to advanced in skill or abilities by bypassing in-game mechanics in exchange for currency is what is called "pay2win".

In Eve the most valuable commodities are:
1) SP (because it can only be accumulated through "time")
2) PS (Player Skill that allows you to use your SP to it's fullest potential)
3) ISK ( in game currency, needed to buy the ships, supplies and shiny trinkets)

As you can see here, SP is the most valuable commodity in Eve because whether people realize it or not, Time is the one thing that cannot be bought in RL which makes it the most precious thing a person can have in his/her lifetime. What made Eve special was that it incorporated a powerful RL commodity as "Time" and made it a central part of the game's core mechanic that allows the players in it to evolve in the same way we all do as people in real time. And now that precious commodity is up for sale in exchange for the mighty buck.

The people who cannot see the problem with this SP trading are the people that don't know the true value of "Time" and take it for granted. For CCP it's sheer greed.

Edit: After the SP trading goes lives the most valuable commodities in Eve would be:
1) Visa, Master Card, American Express, Discover
2) PS
3) ISK




you really can't answer my question can you, especially the part when i asked a specific scenario sample? Smile

all you ever did was label this feature as pay2win but im afraid you yourself don't understand the term. there's definitely a "pay" involved, but where's the "win" part?

my point is to establish your definition of "winning". and how is having more SP = winning and therefore able to pay for SP is pay2win. if you believe that having more SP = winning then so be it, but not all of us are that dumb, sorry. Lol

It's called pay2advance, you satisfied?? It still breaks the game for people who can see the problem. For those who can't then that's their problem.
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#79 - 2016-01-31 07:51:41 UTC
Perhaps the only ones who "see" the problem only see it because it's in their heads... SP injection will do nothing to EvE other than create another isk sink. Both by tempting ppl to trade in things like plex to pay for them and by flying more expensive ships that they will be able to once they have the requisite SP. Which... will then in turn create more temptation to buy more plex to get more isk to buy more shiny ships... etc etc etc. More ppl buy plex, more plex on market, plex price drops, ppl whine less and more ppl can afford to plex accounts. WHICH... means more accounts. EvE has been "dying" for 13 years according to ppl like you. News flash, it hasn't died yet, and more character SP isn't going to do it but go ahead w your sky is falling speech. It's amusing to a certain extent. (Fills my tear buckets to feed my thirst for capsuleer sorrow)Twisted

Daemun of Khanid
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#80 - 2016-01-31 07:54:45 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left.

There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game.

The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded.

Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months.


Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance.

I'm trying to figure out your reasonings for asking this question? Like do you really not know? Or are trying to convince me that this feature isn't pay2win, which in this case is a waste of time.

Anytime a game provides a feature that allows your char to advanced in skill or abilities by bypassing in-game mechanics in exchange for currency is what is called "pay2win".

In Eve the most valuable commodities are:
1) SP (because it can only be accumulated through "time")
2) PS (Player Skill that allows you to use your SP to it's fullest potential)
3) ISK ( in game currency, needed to buy the ships, supplies and shiny trinkets)

As you can see here, SP is the most valuable commodity in Eve because whether people realize it or not, Time is the one thing that cannot be bought in RL which makes it the most precious thing a person can have in his/her lifetime. What made Eve special was that it incorporated a powerful RL commodity as "Time" and made it a central part of the game's core mechanic that allows the players in it to evolve in the same way we all do as people in real time. And now that precious commodity is up for sale in exchange for the mighty buck.

The people who cannot see the problem with this SP trading are the people that don't know the true value of "Time" and take it for granted. For CCP it's sheer greed.

Edit: After the SP trading goes lives the most valuable commodities in Eve would be:
1) Visa, Master Card, American Express, Discover
2) PS
3) ISK




you really can't answer my question can you, especially the part when i asked a specific scenario sample? Smile

all you ever did was label this feature as pay2win but im afraid you yourself don't understand the term. there's definitely a "pay" involved, but where's the "win" part?

my point is to establish your definition of "winning". and how is having more SP = winning and therefore able to pay for SP is pay2win. if you believe that having more SP = winning then so be it, but not all of us are that dumb, sorry. Lol

It's called pay2advance, you satisfied?? It still breaks the game for people who can see the problem. For those who can't then that's their problem.


see, this is the issue, this is not your typical theme park game wherein having more XP is an advantage. it is not and never will be. again, give me a specific scenario wherein a SPed newbro will gain an advantage over you, be it PvP or PvE, just 1 example, please, i beg you.

Just Add Water