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stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#181 - 2016-02-04 19:32:56 UTC  |  Edited by: stg slate
Divine Entervention wrote:
...then disappear leaving open sores that eventually heal over. Except this time, the draw of needing to "keep up with the joneses" by remaining subscribed is no longer as necessary. You can stop paying that subscription to follow the people who left to Xgame or Ygame, because if things don't pan out, well you can always just buy a bunch of skill injectors and eventually catch back up.

People are repetitive, routine, and easily influenced. While it will definitely be novel and will interest a lot of people, the idea of "missing" anything is now gone, because you can now just spend a little bit of $$ and catch up.


If you are right, then this is a great change for these easily misguided, ignorant sheep. This will set them free. I would endorse the change 1000x if you think that it will make the lives of many people better IN REAL LIFE.

In your picture you paint this change will free the helpless sheeps from the tyranny of CCP and EVE and now they are free to play with their friends, no longer held down to EVE by GUILT AND FEAR!

Bravo, this change, bravo.

If you are right now the world is a better place!

EDIT: BTW you sound like some want-to-be armchair psychiatrist who read too much Ayn Rand Big smile
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#182 - 2016-02-04 20:06:50 UTC
Alea wrote:
If you would take the time to read any of my responses to the same question you would already have your answer.


I did read those. Your answer was "I'm afraid to use a main character on the forums"

My point still stands, tiger.
N00B-SAIB0T
MK Financial
#183 - 2016-02-04 20:54:39 UTC
All of this back and forth is irrelevant at this point. CCP threw out the idea in October and got more positive feedback than negative, and now they're moving ahead with it with maybe a minor tweak or three. Nothing is changing that decision. Don't like the feature? Fine. Don't use it. You don't even have to keep playing. Someone that does find the feature useful will likely replace you anyways. The point is that there are more people that want this than don't and CCP needs to embrace progress.

All I'm seeing though is bitterness in losing some prestige in having immensely older characters that have been around for many years that contain tens of millions of SPs. That's all. I have a 40,000,000 SP character myself created 6 years ago but I don't really care if some newbie buys himself 50,000,000 SPs tomorrow. I suppose I take this game less seriously and understand that some guy buying SPs has no bearing whatsoever on my gameplay.

All these dumb fantasy predictions on how the game is now going to die are childish, at best.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#184 - 2016-02-04 21:09:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Orion Pax wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:

raffle? you still have to buy the sp its more like building your dream car with little bits at a time, or having donor cars to strip parts from and fit to make an even better car, everything still has a value regardless because you still have to either pay or work for it


The analogy's meaning is about "hard earned" vs "easily earned". The SP injection system makes it easier to gain SP, so there's a loss in value because now you can buy it with money. You don't have to earn it through patience and perseverance. It's less "rare", so it's worth less.



Teckos Pech wrote:
Orion Pax wrote:

It's pretty obvious that the net SP will be a loss. There's no question about that. However the average amount of SP a main toon will have will go up substantially. Overall everyone's main will have more SP and there will be a lot less toons with lesser amounts of SP.


No, I doubt this will be the outcome. I for example will not use it on my main (injecting that is). I won’t even use it on my oldest alt (who is about to break 100 million SP). Even my other alts are high enough SP and close enough to where I want them that the diminishing returns make the use of SP injectors the least preferred method of gaining SP.

In fact, some SP might be coming from main characters depending on the cost of SP extractors. For example, I might be able to scrounge enough SP On my main to justify buying maybe 1 SP extractor. Depending on the prices I might farm SP on an alt. But overall the market could be surprisingly thin. Depends on the price of an extractor. For example, my guess is that the long run price of a SP injector will be bounded below by about 1/3 the price of PLEX. If I can sell my SP injectors from a farming alt to cover the cost of a PLEX and the extractors I'll probably farm SP. If not, harder to say.

As for your car example, I’d go back to the dealership and invoke the clause where I essentially cancel the sale and get my money back less a restocking fee. Then off I’d go in my newly won car with all that money I earned to have a good time! Big smile


There are always exceptions, however I'm talking about overall in general and long term effects on the game. Injectors will become common place given time. Back in the old days, Titans didn't even exist. Now, they're quite common.



Tyberius Franklin wrote:

I'm not sure how this analogy really works in parallel to the change. Mainly due to the fact that training is a different mechanic than saving money (the former is an inevitability while the latter involves either decreasing spending or increasing earning continuously till the goal is met) and the injector mechanic is even less relatable to a raffle.

If anything it's actually the injector mechanic which most resembles saving/working for the car actively (the value of research is the same either way), but I doubt such a relation was your intention.


The analogy's meaning is about "hard earned" vs "easily earned". The SP injection system makes it easier to gain SP, so there's a loss in value because now you can buy it with money. You don't have to earn it through patience and perseverance. It's less "rare", so it's worth less.


Titans are not on sale for Aurum though it is an in game item and only an in-game item. Not quite the same thing. Depends on the Aurum price. Some people are saying the price will be equal to half a PLEX, problem there is that the long run price of an injector will likely tend towards 1/3 of a PLEX plus some mark up for time discounting....will that mark up be at least 1/6 of a PLEX? Maybe, but seems kind of high to me. So the market could be thin and remain thin if the Aurum price is "too high".

Oh, and as SP leave the game due to people injecting past 5 million SP...the remaining SP will become more valuable, not less.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Altair Taurus
#185 - 2016-02-04 21:15:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
N00B-SAIB0T wrote:
All these dumb fantasy predictions on how the game is now going to die are childish, at best.


Good point! This historic change will open high-end Eve content to new players Attention
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#186 - 2016-02-04 21:20:43 UTC
Orion Pax wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

I'm not sure how this analogy really works in parallel to the change. Mainly due to the fact that training is a different mechanic than saving money (the former is an inevitability while the latter involves either decreasing spending or increasing earning continuously till the goal is met) and the injector mechanic is even less relatable to a raffle.

If anything it's actually the injector mechanic which most resembles saving/working for the car actively (the value of research is the same either way), but I doubt such a relation was your intention.


The analogy's meaning is about "hard earned" vs "easily earned". The SP injection system makes it easier to gain SP, so there's a loss in value because now you can buy it with money. You don't have to earn it through patience and perseverance. It's less "rare", so it's worth less.
That's exactly the issue, you're equating "waited for" to hard earned and "actually earned" to luck. It's incoherent when compared to what's actually happening. You don't earn SP through "perseverance" because there is very little activity involved in gaining SP, and certainly not enough to justify the claim of being a consistent or difficult endeavor. Waiting patiently for it to drop into your lap certainly isn't hard earned.

Meanwhile you can bet SP injector purchasers can tie an actual act to their ability to obtain each of them.
Alea
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#187 - 2016-02-05 02:06:11 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Alea wrote:
If you would take the time to read any of my responses to the same question you would already have your answer.


I did read those. Your answer was "I'm afraid to use a main character on the forums"

My point still stands, tiger.


It’s often said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result, I answered this question for you multiple times and my answer remains the same.

I can't make it any more simple than I already have but it's clear you are unable to process the most simple of explanations.

Whomever is making the last few years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.
BTS Engineer
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#188 - 2016-02-05 02:25:06 UTC
Too lazy to read 10 pages of butt hurt.

I've been playing less than a year and got about 18M SP. Can't freaking wait for the SP injections. I've just been playing my trading character for the past 2 weeks to make as much ISK as possible (at about 8 bil atm.)

Anyways, I live in Black Rise - Ishomilken mainly.

I'll be waiting for you inside a novice plex. See you soon!

<3
Alea
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#189 - 2016-02-05 02:51:29 UTC
BTS Engineer wrote:
Too lazy to read 10 pages of butt hurt.

I've been playing less than a year and got about 18M SP. Can't freaking wait for the SP injections. I've just been playing my trading character for the past 2 weeks to make as much ISK as possible (at about 8 bil atm.)

Anyways, I live in Black Rise - Ishomilken mainly.

I'll be waiting for you inside a novice plex. See you soon!

<3


You're going to have one long ass wait, answer pertaining to why is cleverly hidden within this thread so you either have to read or continue to set there and wait, your choice Einstein..

Whomever is making the last few years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.
BTS Engineer
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#190 - 2016-02-05 03:35:51 UTC
Alea wrote:
BTS Engineer wrote:
Too lazy to read 10 pages of butt hurt.

I've been playing less than a year and got about 18M SP. Can't freaking wait for the SP injections. I've just been playing my trading character for the past 2 weeks to make as much ISK as possible (at about 8 bil atm.)

Anyways, I live in Black Rise - Ishomilken mainly.

I'll be waiting for you inside a novice plex. See you soon!

<3


You're going to have one long ass wait, answer pertaining to why is cleverly hidden within this thread so you either have to read or continue to set there and wait, your choice Einstein..



Take a look at my killboard and you'll see where I've gone inactive for months at a time because stuff was training. I'm only interested in solo pvp and it was better for me to simply wait for stuff to train aka not playing the game at all, or get farmed by players like you who have been playing since 2003 with links and implants and massive stacks of ISK. My only other option is to be someone's tackle pet (not interested.) So I paid for an entire year of game time so I can only play a few months on this character. Fantastic.

I've been flying the same ship since I started the game and I'm STILL not fully maxed out in it SP wise. All SP injectors mean for me is I can fly a Tormentor 2-3 months earlier. MAYBE if SP isn't super expensive I can try an Atron also. This means I'll be playing more, an actual player, not some hypothetical pay2win character you cooked up in your head. I guess this makes me an instant-gratification kiddie as you put it. So be it.

Tried to find you on zkill but realized you are posting on an alt. v0v

Why do you want to keep me trapped in an Executioner for another 2-3 months Alea? :(
stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#191 - 2016-02-05 03:37:49 UTC
BTS Engineer wrote:
Why do you want to keep me trapped in an Executioner for another 2-3 months Alea? :(


The real question is... why hasn't CCP told us how much the damned extractors are going to be yet?

Hello, Iceland, time for posty posty!
Alea
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#192 - 2016-02-05 04:07:55 UTC
BTS Engineer wrote:


Take a look at my killboard and you'll see where I've gone inactive for months at a time because stuff was training. I'm only interested in solo pvp and it was better for me to simply wait for stuff to train aka not playing the game at all, or get farmed by players like you who have been playing since 2003 with links and implants and massive stacks of ISK. My only other option is to be someone's tackle pet (not interested.) So I paid for an entire year of game time so I can only play a few months on this character. Fantastic.

I've been flying the same ship since I started the game and I'm STILL not fully maxed out in it SP wise. All SP injectors mean for me is I can fly a Tormentor 2-3 months earlier. MAYBE if SP isn't super expensive I can try an Atron also. This means I'll be playing more, an actual player, not some hypothetical pay2win character you cooked up in your head. I guess this makes me an instant-gratification kiddie as you put it. So be it.

Tried to find you on zkill but realized you are posting on an alt. v0v

Why do you want to keep me trapped in an Executioner for another 2-3 months Alea? :(


My solo kills are not that impressive, average at best, I do great in large groups but solo not so much.

Yea this is an alt, Alea has the most SP on this account too, hovering around 4.5 mill SP or so, this is probably the only active 2003 account with next to no skill points.

Everybody started off the same as you (both young and old), and honestly that was the most fun I have had was being a beginner, needed help with almost everything, dying allot, losing allot, cursing allot, all that trauma helped to build strong friendships over the years. Now I can do almost everything solo with the help of multiple accounts, pretty damn boring really.

Whomever is making the last few years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#193 - 2016-02-05 09:15:25 UTC
stg slate wrote:
BTS Engineer wrote:
Why do you want to keep me trapped in an Executioner for another 2-3 months Alea? :(


The real question is... why hasn't CCP told us how much the damned extractors are going to be yet?

Hello, Iceland, time for posty posty!




Because that info is a nuke that they need to be careful with, they will probably be picking names out a hat to find the person that will drop that bomb, its going to be glorious

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#194 - 2016-02-05 09:18:11 UTC
BTS Engineer wrote:
Alea wrote:
BTS Engineer wrote:
Too lazy to read 10 pages of butt hurt.

I've been playing less than a year and got about 18M SP. Can't freaking wait for the SP injections. I've just been playing my trading character for the past 2 weeks to make as much ISK as possible (at about 8 bil atm.)

Anyways, I live in Black Rise - Ishomilken mainly.

I'll be waiting for you inside a novice plex. See you soon!

<3


You're going to have one long ass wait, answer pertaining to why is cleverly hidden within this thread so you either have to read or continue to set there and wait, your choice Einstein..



Take a look at my killboard and you'll see where I've gone inactive for months at a time because stuff was training. I'm only interested in solo pvp and it was better for me to simply wait for stuff to train aka not playing the game at all, or get farmed by players like you who have been playing since 2003 with links and implants and massive stacks of ISK. My only other option is to be someone's tackle pet (not interested.) So I paid for an entire year of game time so I can only play a few months on this character. Fantastic.

I've been flying the same ship since I started the game and I'm STILL not fully maxed out in it SP wise. All SP injectors mean for me is I can fly a Tormentor 2-3 months earlier. MAYBE if SP isn't super expensive I can try an Atron also. This means I'll be playing more, an actual player, not some hypothetical pay2win character you cooked up in your head. I guess this makes me an instant-gratification kiddie as you put it. So be it.

Tried to find you on zkill but realized you are posting on an alt. v0v

Why do you want to keep me trapped in an Executioner for another 2-3 months Alea? :(


This game really shines in small/medium gang, you will enjoy it so much more in a group Pirate

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#195 - 2016-02-05 12:24:02 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
i really dont know anyone who would bother going to all the effort of stripping 10 x 100mil chars for 1 maxxed level, i mean 200mil his already pretty much godlike in the skill department, why would he bother?


For the epeen alone.

These forums, and Reddit, are going to be filled with smugposters showing off their maxed-out EVE chars, along with the obligatory race to be the first person in EVE history to do it.

For the record, I'm not really bothered about skill injection, I might do it myself, might not, depends on the skills I need and whether it's worth the cost. I certainly don't care enough to kill players over it.


We could make a thread, where they could post their SP injections count, this way they will be identified and easier to hunt. Pirate

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#196 - 2016-02-05 23:15:03 UTC
Big smileInjecting skills for bitter vets who had temper tantrums and lost a couple of years could be a plus for those players as well. Roll just saying.

Empire, the next new world order.
Alea
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#197 - 2016-02-06 00:00:06 UTC
Merovee wrote:
Big smileInjecting skills for bitter vets who had temper tantrums and lost a couple of years could be a plus for those players as well. Roll just saying.


I am going to assume the definition of "bitter Vet" is a person who has played Eve for many years, a player who has also accumulated talents, skill points and knowledge, so with that as a definition of "Bitter Vet" I'm going to inject myself into that category.

So, with me being a bitter vet I have arguably amassed a great deal of Eve stuffs, be it ships, ISK, skill points or other related junk. At the moment my main accounts that are subscribed to Eve are training what I call junk skills, skills that I may never put to use but have nothing else to train for as I already have maxed out the skills for what I want to do or the ships I want to pilot, including all related support skills.

I could realistically stop training my subbed accounts for over a year and lose nothing worth while as I can already utilize what I want to do or ships I want to pilot at the maximum level.

So, with me being a bitter vet I have no use for SP trading.

Whomever is making the last few years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.
Memphis Baas
#198 - 2016-02-06 02:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Alea wrote:
I am going to assume the definition of "bitter Vet" is a person who has played Eve for many years, a player who has also accumulated talents, skill points and knowledge.


No, that's just a vet.

The "bitter" part involves a lot of complaining at CCP for never doing anything right, and the absolute conviction that they never will do anything right in the future, ever. Also, you have to have, say, at least a dozen complaining posts on the forums, to qualify for the title.
Alea
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#199 - 2016-02-06 04:54:32 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Alea wrote:
I am going to assume the definition of "bitter Vet" is a person who has played Eve for many years, a player who has also accumulated talents, skill points and knowledge.


No, that's just a vet.

The "bitter" part involves a lot of complaining at CCP for never doing anything right, and the absolute conviction that they never will do anything right in the future, ever. Also, you have to have, say, at least a dozen complaining posts on the forums, to qualify for the title.



CCP did nerf my play style, the CAP nerfs, killed skynet, jump fatigue, I complained about those changes, I stopped plexing my CAP accounts in protest.

Whomever is making the last few years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.
Minkki
Doomheim
#200 - 2016-02-06 10:34:16 UTC
My goal is to have all skills at level 5 and I will spend my EVE career on grinding ISK and buying SP.