EVE General Discussion

It's not the change between accounts that comprises a difference, it's the change between players and their behaviors that comprises probably the most significant difference.

Sure, you could snapshot the DB and say this character has changed after completing Transport ships V, but that doesn't give you an accurate picture of a gameplay change because I've yet to fly a transport on this character (and for that matter started to question my training priority). Even more relevant, most of what you just pointed out as a result of a character change only holds true if the change doesn't happen between players. If it does, you can bet the actions regarding any of: NPCs/Players destroyed, orders, industry jobs, future training, etc.

If we're just looking at a single player changing a character between accounts your scenario holds true, but we're not restricted to that function.

Note you have to make the assumption that they have the SP, which, since we're for some odd reason assuming an effectively limitless cash flow, can't be true without a paring of an infinite number of accounts. Combine those factors and you start to picture how silly the concept of "you can buy as much as you want via aur" really is.

The only thing you can really do without limit is sell extractors for isk, which is no different than the vanity items.

You pay real-world money for the right to do whatever you are able to do in the game. Which could stretch from absolutely nothing to a 23x7 month-long PvP fest. Either way, you will spend the same amount of real-world money, whatever you end up doing. You do this by either using a credit card to fund a subscription, or purchasing a PLEX individually and redeeming it, or purchasing Aurum, selling it for ISK, and using the ISK to purchase a PLEX which you then redeem. CCP get their money, which is great. My concern would be, what if beyond the initial cost that gives you that month's playtime you then also have to spend AUR, which ultimately only is created from real-world money, to do the activities in the game you want to do. That is, microtransactions. So a person who simply does nothing of only skill-queues pays less real-world money than somebody who engages in a lot of PvP, PvE, industry, etc.

Oh! No, no, I do not intend to make a mountain whatsoever. It's why I've used terms like "uncomfortable" when describing my feelings - I think that's about as mole hill-ish as one can get. :) I've read people's comments that this will kill EVE, turn it lifeless, that they're unsubbing. I don't feel like that at all. I will gladly continue on playing the game, I will make use of Skill Injectors - I even looked through my character sheet for 500k SP I might use to create an Injector, but I don't have enough misallocated skillpoints. So yes, this is quite the mole hill. :) I simply wanted to give Gully Alex Foyle a concrete, although rather minor at this point, answer to his question. Something a little more meaty than "Here, read these 60 pages of comments" style of response he had gotten already.



Yes. Not game-killing, I'm-going-to-unsub level problem, but yeah a problem. I like to use the thought-experiment of every market order you place, every time you undock, every LP exchange you do costs 1 AUR, to try to clarify my view. I am not concerned that a real-world wealthy person can purchase many many months of game time (which can then be traded to other players for their in-game currency.) I'm concerned that after I spend my real-world money to get my month's worth of game time, I might be charged extra money depending on what I want to do in the game.



They can, and I have no problem with that - a single person flooding the market with thousands of PLEX sell orders is at the core of the situation paying for other people's play time. It would have an effect on the EVE economy since PLEX is integrated in the economy so thoroughly, but they are perfect welcome to do so as far as I'm concerned.



No, that's not my concern - I'm not worried that some wealthy person will use PLEX or AUR to buy their way to some "winning EVE" status. I'm worried that the range of in-game activities I'm able to engage in might be limited by my willingness to pay real-world money for those activities one the game-time costs are satisfied. Sure, I don't have enough ISK to buy and fly a Titan - but I could make it a goal to do so and it would never ever cost any more real-world money, from either me or anybody else beyond the game-time costs. Anything that costs AUR, however, absolutely costs real-world money. Not necessarily mine, if for example I purchase a SKIN from somebody, but at the ultimate source of that SKIN it cost somebody. Trading skillpoints, like trading implants or trading Vexor hulls, I feel should be a normal in-game activity that doesn't require any AUR cost. (And just to reiterate - that it does cost AUR isn't game breaking, and isn't going to cause me to quit playing. It's just something that I wish would be otherwise. It's my little objection. :) )

Dupe. Sorry.

Look, your ability to buy PLEX, depending on how liquid the market is will depend on your RL wallet and/or your in game wallet.

I don't see your fascination with AUR.

I'm not a fan of this idea, I'm worried veteran players will turn it to their advantage over newer players, but not because of AUR, but because of something we have not seen yet.

There's one sideeffect that not many (if anyone at all) have mentioned yet...

Putting this feature live won't just mean that old pilots will recycle their SP and sell it. What will probably happen (and what CCP is most likely hoping for) is that people will buy new accounts and make new characters on existing accounts, training them with multi-training certs. This obviously pushes it quite far into P2W territory.

The feature seems to be designed such that people will be tempted to buy the multi-training certs, make 2 extra alts on their account, then train them to 5-10m, recycle the SP to their main character and so on untill the main reaches 80m sp. They may keep it going anyway, or train the other characters on the account the same way.

I already see skillfarms coming around.

And this is not even the main reason why this entire feature is a bad idea, but it's an appalling one nonetheless.

It's called selective reading disorder.

The BFD is that the creation of Extractors requires an AUR expenditure. PLEX, AUR, ISK and all other in-game items are exchangeable in the game due to the cool economic tools CCP has provided us - but the sources of those are very different. If a SP trade happens somewhere, that means that some body at some point in time spent extra real-world money. If an officer mod trade happens somewhere, that could have involved absolutely zero real-world money beyond the cost of game-time.



Why would I care about SP farming alts? I wouldn't, any more than I care about PI alts or market alts.
What I do care about, slightly, is a real-world cost beyond the game-time being a part of it.
I would feel best if the Extractors simply cost ISK to purchase from NPCs, and Injectors get priced by the market.



The only way AUR is introduced into the game is through a real-world money transaction. ISK appears in the game through in-game activities done with active game-time. Ignore the term "AUR" - what I'm concerned about is the trade of an in-game item between two players (other than game-time which has it's own real-world cost to acquire) involving a real-world cost.

If the bazar let you do it, where is the real problem with being able to buy someone`s SP in parts VS buying the whole character? Remember that the SP way also has diminushing returns.

What really is the big difference between someone buying a apck of SP so he can train Caldari cruiser to V so his logi pilot can now also use the basilisk instead of buying a character that is a perfect logistic pilot? At the end of the day, the player gets the same capabilities of flying the ship he wanted at what will probably be a lower total cost but a higher cost per SP.

And it`s not like the bazar doesn`t already have most niche covered with `perfect XXX pilot`for sale.

Plex was a drop during frostline. Possibly other events.