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A few issues have to be addressed in relation to SP Trading

First post
Author
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2016-01-25 23:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Eli Stan wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

Yeah, I'm just not seeing this as a problem, at least a significant one. So Bob buys Aurum and decides to use it to buy skill injectors…? You can also buy Aurum with ISK no? Thought I saw some listed on the market in Jita not too long ago. Maybe you can explain your concerns a bit more?


A Skill Extractor has an in-game effect. Undocking has an in-game effect. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of Skill Extractors requiring AUR for the exact same reason I would be uncomfortable with undocking requiring an AUR cost, even if I can use my time in-game to acquire ISK that I then use to purchase AUR from somebody else who has acquired that AUR by spending real-world currency. It increases the real-world cost of playing the game (even though it's an optional aspect of it) beyond the month's worth of game-time that is currently, other than the character bazaar and vanity items, the only cost to playing EVE.


I pay RL money for the right to undock. It could be switched over to Aurum I suppose...IDK nor do I care so long as the price is approximately the same.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2016-01-25 23:43:51 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
I do not consider that moving a character from one account to another as having any direct EVE-world impact.
It's not the change between accounts that comprises a difference, it's the change between players and their behaviors that comprises probably the most significant difference.

Sure, you could snapshot the DB and say this character has changed after completing Transport ships V, but that doesn't give you an accurate picture of a gameplay change because I've yet to fly a transport on this character (and for that matter started to question my training priority). Even more relevant, most of what you just pointed out as a result of a character change only holds true if the change doesn't happen between players. If it does, you can bet the actions regarding any of: NPCs/Players destroyed, orders, industry jobs, future training, etc.

If we're just looking at a single player changing a character between accounts your scenario holds true, but we're not restricted to that function.

Quote:
It's the things that go to CCP and redeem AUR for that concern me, not that AUR can be passed between players for an agreed upon ISK amount. Currently, somebody can spend millions of real-world currency and acquire millions of AUR - and it really wouldn't have much effect on the game no matter what they did with it, since it can only be redeemed for vanity items, except perhaps drive down the ISK value of AUR by flooding the market, which again doesn't really matter much since AUR will still be available to everybody for the same real-world cost. Skill Extractors and the resulting Injectors, however, are not vanity items, and somebody spending millions of real-world currency to acquire AUR in order to acquire Extractions, can, assuming they have access to enough SP, have a significant impact on the game-world.
Note you have to make the assumption that they have the SP, which, since we're for some odd reason assuming an effectively limitless cash flow, can't be true without a paring of an infinite number of accounts. Combine those factors and you start to picture how silly the concept of "you can buy as much as you want via aur" really is.

The only thing you can really do without limit is sell extractors for isk, which is no different than the vanity items.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2016-01-25 23:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Eli Stan,

Let me be clear, I think you are making a bit of a mountain out of mole here. I can go to CCP an buy a PLEX I can then take that PLEX and do things that have an impact in game. Suppose I buy a PLEX and I have 30 billion ISK and want a new character…I can go buy one. That has an in game effect in that the previous owner was likely not going to be using that character whereas I will (a basic aspect of trade is that the person buying wants the item in question more than the person selling). Further, the income distribution has changed. This is true for all PLEX sold for ISK as well. I can also go buy a PLEX, convert it into Aurum (according to the account management page) and buy extractors. Years ago I used GTC (the precursor to PLEX) to start up my invention business. I used something I paid money to, to have an impact on the game (more T2 items hitting the Jita and Amarr markets).

So a person spends RL money and buys extractors…okay, and this is a problem? Because the person might be rich and wants to spend stupid amounts of RL money trying to wreck the New Eden economy (let's gloss over the ginormous question of why)? Can’t they do that now via PLEX? I’m just not seeing it. So a guy buys a million dollars of extractors. Buys a million dollars in high SP characters (via PLEX) and then like Vlad the Impaler drains them all down to just 5 million SP and puts the resulting injectors on the market….and suddenly nobody has underpants?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2016-01-26 04:32:43 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

I pay RL money for the right to undock. It could be switched over to Aurum I suppose...IDK nor do I care so long as the price is approximately the same.


You pay real-world money for the right to do whatever you are able to do in the game. Which could stretch from absolutely nothing to a 23x7 month-long PvP fest. Either way, you will spend the same amount of real-world money, whatever you end up doing. You do this by either using a credit card to fund a subscription, or purchasing a PLEX individually and redeeming it, or purchasing Aurum, selling it for ISK, and using the ISK to purchase a PLEX which you then redeem. CCP get their money, which is great. My concern would be, what if beyond the initial cost that gives you that month's playtime you then also have to spend AUR, which ultimately only is created from real-world money, to do the activities in the game you want to do. That is, microtransactions. So a person who simply does nothing of only skill-queues pays less real-world money than somebody who engages in a lot of PvP, PvE, industry, etc.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2016-01-26 04:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Eli Stan wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

I pay RL money for the right to undock. It could be switched over to Aurum I suppose...IDK nor do I care so long as the price is approximately the same.


You pay real-world money for the right to do whatever you are able to do in the game. Which could stretch from absolutely nothing to a 23x7 month-long PvP fest. Either way, you will spend the same amount of real-world money, whatever you end up doing. You do this by either using a credit card to fund a subscription, or purchasing a PLEX individually and redeeming it, or purchasing Aurum, selling it for ISK, and using the ISK to purchase a PLEX which you then redeem. CCP get their money, which is great. My concern would be, what if beyond the initial cost that gives you that month's playtime you then also have to spend AUR, which ultimately only is created from real-world money, to do the activities in the game you want to do. That is, microtransactions. So a person who simply does nothing of only skill-queues pays less real-world money than somebody who engages in a lot of PvP, PvE, industry, etc.



AUR is created by RL money....just as PLEX are created by RL money. Why are you so hung up on AUR but not PLEX?

As for micro-transactions, we already have them. Most are for cosmetic items. The exceptions are PLEX, AUR, the character bazaar and soon the SP market.

I am not sure what your last sentence refers too...but if you are worried about SP farming alts, well okay, but where is the problem there?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2016-01-26 05:02:24 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Eli Stan,

Let me be clear, I think you are making a bit of a mountain out of mole here.


Oh! No, no, I do not intend to make a mountain whatsoever. It's why I've used terms like "uncomfortable" when describing my feelings - I think that's about as mole hill-ish as one can get. :) I've read people's comments that this will kill EVE, turn it lifeless, that they're unsubbing. I don't feel like that at all. I will gladly continue on playing the game, I will make use of Skill Injectors - I even looked through my character sheet for 500k SP I might use to create an Injector, but I don't have enough misallocated skillpoints. So yes, this is quite the mole hill. :) I simply wanted to give Gully Alex Foyle a concrete, although rather minor at this point, answer to his question. Something a little more meaty than "Here, read these 60 pages of comments" style of response he had gotten already.

Quote:
So a person spends RL money and buys extractors…okay, and this is a problem?


Yes. Not game-killing, I'm-going-to-unsub level problem, but yeah a problem. I like to use the thought-experiment of every market order you place, every time you undock, every LP exchange you do costs 1 AUR, to try to clarify my view. I am not concerned that a real-world wealthy person can purchase many many months of game time (which can then be traded to other players for their in-game currency.) I'm concerned that after I spend my real-world money to get my month's worth of game time, I might be charged extra money depending on what I want to do in the game.

Quote:
Because the person might be rich and wants to spend stupid amounts of RL money trying to wreck the New Eden economy (let's gloss over the ginormous question of why)? Can’t they do that now via PLEX?


They can, and I have no problem with that - a single person flooding the market with thousands of PLEX sell orders is at the core of the situation paying for other people's play time. It would have an effect on the EVE economy since PLEX is integrated in the economy so thoroughly, but they are perfect welcome to do so as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:
I’m just not seeing it. So a guy buys a million dollars of extractors. Buys a million dollars in high SP characters (via PLEX) and then like Vlad the Impaler drains them all down to just 5 million SP and puts the resulting injectors on the market….and suddenly nobody has underpants?


No, that's not my concern - I'm not worried that some wealthy person will use PLEX or AUR to buy their way to some "winning EVE" status. I'm worried that the range of in-game activities I'm able to engage in might be limited by my willingness to pay real-world money for those activities one the game-time costs are satisfied. Sure, I don't have enough ISK to buy and fly a Titan - but I could make it a goal to do so and it would never ever cost any more real-world money, from either me or anybody else beyond the game-time costs. Anything that costs AUR, however, absolutely costs real-world money. Not necessarily mine, if for example I purchase a SKIN from somebody, but at the ultimate source of that SKIN it cost somebody. Trading skillpoints, like trading implants or trading Vexor hulls, I feel should be a normal in-game activity that doesn't require any AUR cost. (And just to reiterate - that it does cost AUR isn't game breaking, and isn't going to cause me to quit playing. It's just something that I wish would be otherwise. It's my little objection. :) )
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2016-01-26 05:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Stan
Teckos Pech wrote:
AUR is created by RL money....just as PLEX are created by RL money. Why are you so hung up on AUR but not PLEX?


Because purchasing a Skill Injector won't require PLEX, it will require AUR. Really, they're basically interchangeable. Swap one for the other in any of my posts and the point will be exactly the same. They are both ways of giving real-world money to CCP. AUR simply comes in much smaller denominations. Without the volume discounts, I can purchase 900 AUR for $5.00 USD, or one PLEX for $19.95 USD, giving an exact ratio of 3591 AUR per PLEX. Essentially, the exact same thing, just with slightly different icons in the game, and valued slightly different by players due to market forces.

Quote:
As for micro-transactions, we already have them. Most are for cosmetic items. The exceptions are PLEX, AUR, the character bazaar and soon the SP market.


Indeed. I have no issue with microtransactions for vanity items or game time. I have a concern about microtransactions for in-game activities like engaging in trade with another player.

Quote:
I am not sure what your last sentence refers too...but if you are worried about SP farming alts, well okay, but where is the problem there?


Nope, not concerned about SP farming alts whatsoever. I think it's great that they will be a possibility.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2016-01-26 05:08:59 UTC
Dupe. Sorry.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2016-01-26 07:41:18 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
Because purchasing a Skill Injector won't require PLEX, it will require AUR. Really, they're basically interchangeable. Swap one for the other in any of my posts and the point will be exactly the same. They are both ways of giving real-world money to CCP. AUR simply comes in much smaller denominations. Without the volume discounts, I can purchase 900 AUR for $5.00 USD, or one PLEX for $19.95 USD, giving an exact ratio of 3591 AUR per PLEX. Essentially, the exact same thing, just with slightly different icons in the game, and valued slightly different by players due to market forces.


But you can get injectors with PLEX...or ISK. So what is the BFD here? You can't seem to lay out a coherent argument.

You actually make the case against your initial post. PLEX, AUR and ISK are all interchangable in game...so who cares, besides you?

Eli Stan wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
As for micro-transactions, we already have them. Most are for cosmetic items. The exceptions are PLEX, AUR, the character bazaar and soon the SP market.


Indeed. I have no issue with microtransactions for vanity items or game time. I have a concern about microtransactions for in-game activities like engaging in trade with another player.


And buying characters or ISK...which can have an impact in game.

Eli Stan wrote:
Nope, not concerned about SP farming alts whatsoever. I think it's great that they will be a possibility.


Still waiting for the punch line to this joke.

I can price PLEX in terms of RL money or ISK. I can Price AUR in terms of ISK or RL money. Ergo I can price AUR and PLEX in terms of ISK and RL money or in terms of each other.

Would you feel better if the injectors cost 1 PLEX each?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2016-01-26 07:44:35 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Eli Stan,

Let me be clear, I think you are making a bit of a mountain out of mole here.


Oh! No, no, I do not intend to make a mountain whatsoever. It's why I've used terms like "uncomfortable" when describing my feelings - I think that's about as mole hill-ish as one can get. :) I've read people's comments that this will kill EVE, turn it lifeless, that they're unsubbing. I don't feel like that at all. I will gladly continue on playing the game, I will make use of Skill Injectors - I even looked through my character sheet for 500k SP I might use to create an Injector, but I don't have enough misallocated skillpoints. So yes, this is quite the mole hill. :) I simply wanted to give Gully Alex Foyle a concrete, although rather minor at this point, answer to his question. Something a little more meaty than "Here, read these 60 pages of comments" style of response he had gotten already.

Quote:
So a person spends RL money and buys extractors…okay, and this is a problem?


Yes. Not game-killing, I'm-going-to-unsub level problem, but yeah a problem. I like to use the thought-experiment of every market order you place, every time you undock, every LP exchange you do costs 1 AUR, to try to clarify my view. I am not concerned that a real-world wealthy person can purchase many many months of game time (which can then be traded to other players for their in-game currency.) I'm concerned that after I spend my real-world money to get my month's worth of game time, I might be charged extra money depending on what I want to do in the game.

Quote:
Because the person might be rich and wants to spend stupid amounts of RL money trying to wreck the New Eden economy (let's gloss over the ginormous question of why)? Can’t they do that now via PLEX?


They can, and I have no problem with that - a single person flooding the market with thousands of PLEX sell orders is at the core of the situation paying for other people's play time. It would have an effect on the EVE economy since PLEX is integrated in the economy so thoroughly, but they are perfect welcome to do so as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:
I’m just not seeing it. So a guy buys a million dollars of extractors. Buys a million dollars in high SP characters (via PLEX) and then like Vlad the Impaler drains them all down to just 5 million SP and puts the resulting injectors on the market….and suddenly nobody has underpants?


No, that's not my concern - I'm not worried that some wealthy person will use PLEX or AUR to buy their way to some "winning EVE" status. I'm worried that the range of in-game activities I'm able to engage in might be limited by my willingness to pay real-world money for those activities one the game-time costs are satisfied. Sure, I don't have enough ISK to buy and fly a Titan - but I could make it a goal to do so and it would never ever cost any more real-world money, from either me or anybody else beyond the game-time costs. Anything that costs AUR, however, absolutely costs real-world money. Not necessarily mine, if for example I purchase a SKIN from somebody, but at the ultimate source of that SKIN it cost somebody. Trading skillpoints, like trading implants or trading Vexor hulls, I feel should be a normal in-game activity that doesn't require any AUR cost. (And just to reiterate - that it does cost AUR isn't game breaking, and isn't going to cause me to quit playing. It's just something that I wish would be otherwise. It's my little objection. :) )


Look, your ability to buy PLEX, depending on how liquid the market is will depend on your RL wallet and/or your in game wallet.

I don't see your fascination with AUR.

I'm not a fan of this idea, I'm worried veteran players will turn it to their advantage over newer players, but not because of AUR, but because of something we have not seen yet.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Varro Octavius
Southern Cross Empires
Dangerous Industrial Exports
#51 - 2016-01-26 13:10:30 UTC
This change needs to happen due to the safety net EVE online has created for veteran EVE online players by not allowing newer players to catch up with existing players using their own accounts. Granted these newer players will need to learn actually game skills but that is a learning curve that cannot be bought with cash, while that remains anything is technically fair.

This system is not pay 2 win, it's pay for convenience, and with the diminishing returns at higher skill points it's a lot harder to abuse unless you have trillions of isk.

All the games I've played where the time-scale to reach the top 1% of stats is now longer than the actually worth of playing the game have slowly but surely diminished. I'll still log on and say hello once in a while but if that 1% becomes out of reach due to work/RL stuff then interest is lost. EVE needs this system to give newer players the incentive to go all the way in EVE and keep the game alive.
Reiisha
#52 - 2016-01-26 14:15:15 UTC
There's one sideeffect that not many (if anyone at all) have mentioned yet...

Putting this feature live won't just mean that old pilots will recycle their SP and sell it. What will probably happen (and what CCP is most likely hoping for) is that people will buy new accounts and make new characters on existing accounts, training them with multi-training certs. This obviously pushes it quite far into P2W territory.

The feature seems to be designed such that people will be tempted to buy the multi-training certs, make 2 extra alts on their account, then train them to 5-10m, recycle the SP to their main character and so on untill the main reaches 80m sp. They may keep it going anyway, or train the other characters on the account the same way.

I already see skillfarms coming around.

And this is not even the main reason why this entire feature is a bad idea, but it's an appalling one nonetheless.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#53 - 2016-01-26 14:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
I think you're somewhat radically overestimating the number of injectors that will actually hit the market.

I'm of the belief that those players with large pools of 'surplus' SP will probably use that SP (or the bulk of it anyways) for themselves, rather than sell on the market. Lets face it, if you have several high SP characters, you have other ways of generating ISK that doesn't involve selling SP.

It would take a major change in EVE mechanics to 'free up' vast amounts of redundant SP that might then make it to market. Getting rid of Off Grid Boosting would be such a change and it will be interesting to see what happens. Is it more profitable to sell off that SP as injectors or is it more profitable to sell off the whole character on the Bazaar?

These are all unknown quantities at the moment.

In any case, I don't expect to see them on the market for any less than around a billion ISK a pop. Some of these fanciful pieces of mathemagics where people project an ISK500m price point are, I believe, somewhat deluded.

Looking at my own meager stable of low SP alts, I can see a couple of million SP I can 'spare'. Said SP will be used by myself, not sold.

Indeed, if I wanted I could siphon all the SP out of my half my alts to empower the other half and reduced my accounts by half. Or just use half of my accounts as SP farmers and never have to grind for isk ever again, nor pay for another subscription fee.

But I still think over time I'll began to feel less motivated to play Eve from the lack of progression that game will no longer provide....
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#54 - 2016-01-26 14:23:57 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
In a nutshell:

. Up to now you can get SP by being subbed or by buying a character on the bazaar

. In a few weeks you'll also be able to get SP from somebody else's characters (or your alts)


Not sure what p2w has to do with this specific change. Note that both the current two SP-gaining options and the new one require you or someone else to pay CCP for the privilege.



over 60 pages of why's
Yeah, read some of that, there's no coherent argument about this specific change making eve more or less p2w than it currently is.


plenty, but more likely you "don't want" to find those arguments

It's called selective reading disorder.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2016-01-26 14:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
Varro Octavius wrote:
This change needs to happen due to the safety net EVE online has created for veteran EVE online players by not allowing newer players to catch up with existing players using their own accounts. Granted these newer players will need to learn actually game skills but that is a learning curve that cannot be bought with cash, while that remains anything is technically fair.



Your safety net is skipped by Char Bazar. Cause there is no difference if you grind isk or you buy PLEX for cash and swap it for isk just to buy ready to go toon vs. you do all the same just to buy pure SP.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2016-01-26 15:47:05 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
But you can get injectors with PLEX...or ISK. So what is the BFD here? You can't seem to lay out a coherent argument.

You actually make the case against your initial post. PLEX, AUR and ISK are all interchangable in game...so who cares, besides you?


The BFD is that the creation of Extractors requires an AUR expenditure. PLEX, AUR, ISK and all other in-game items are exchangeable in the game due to the cool economic tools CCP has provided us - but the sources of those are very different. If a SP trade happens somewhere, that means that some body at some point in time spent extra real-world money. If an officer mod trade happens somewhere, that could have involved absolutely zero real-world money beyond the cost of game-time.

Quote:
Eli Stan wrote:
Nope, not concerned about SP farming alts whatsoever. I think it's great that they will be a possibility.


Still waiting for the punch line to this joke.

I can price PLEX in terms of RL money or ISK. I can Price AUR in terms of ISK or RL money. Ergo I can price AUR and PLEX in terms of ISK and RL money or in terms of each other.

Would you feel better if the injectors cost 1 PLEX each?


Why would I care about SP farming alts? I wouldn't, any more than I care about PI alts or market alts.
What I do care about, slightly, is a real-world cost beyond the game-time being a part of it.
I would feel best if the Extractors simply cost ISK to purchase from NPCs, and Injectors get priced by the market.

Quote:
I don't see your fascination with AUR.


The only way AUR is introduced into the game is through a real-world money transaction. ISK appears in the game through in-game activities done with active game-time. Ignore the term "AUR" - what I'm concerned about is the trade of an in-game item between two players (other than game-time which has it's own real-world cost to acquire) involving a real-world cost.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2016-01-26 20:19:47 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:


The only way AUR is introduced into the game is through a real-world money transaction. ISK appears in the game through in-game activities done with active game-time. Ignore the term "AUR" - what I'm concerned about is the trade of an in-game item between two players (other than game-time which has it's own real-world cost to acquire) involving a real-world cost.


So you are concerned about PLEX trades since they are trade of in game items that can only be created by the involvement of real-world cost.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2016-01-26 20:24:00 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Varro Octavius wrote:
This change needs to happen due to the safety net EVE online has created for veteran EVE online players by not allowing newer players to catch up with existing players using their own accounts. Granted these newer players will need to learn actually game skills but that is a learning curve that cannot be bought with cash, while that remains anything is technically fair.



Your safety net is skipped by Char Bazar. Cause there is no difference if you grind isk or you buy PLEX for cash and swap it for isk just to buy ready to go toon vs. you do all the same just to buy pure SP.


If the bazar let you do it, where is the real problem with being able to buy someone`s SP in parts VS buying the whole character? Remember that the SP way also has diminushing returns.

What really is the big difference between someone buying a apck of SP so he can train Caldari cruiser to V so his logi pilot can now also use the basilisk instead of buying a character that is a perfect logistic pilot? At the end of the day, the player gets the same capabilities of flying the ship he wanted at what will probably be a lower total cost but a higher cost per SP.

And it`s not like the bazar doesn`t already have most niche covered with `perfect XXX pilot`for sale.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2016-01-26 21:07:53 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:


The only way AUR is introduced into the game is through a real-world money transaction.


This also true with PLEX.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#60 - 2016-01-26 21:47:04 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:


The only way AUR is introduced into the game is through a real-world money transaction.


This also true with PLEX.


Plex was a drop during frostline. Possibly other events.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.