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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

First post First post First post
Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#181 - 2016-01-18 18:15:58 UTC
Still utterly idiotic; still benefits older players more than it ever will new ones; still breaks T3s in horrible ways.

…sigh…
IlIIlIIIlllIlIllIIIIll
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#182 - 2016-01-18 18:16:07 UTC
Querns wrote:
IlIIlIIIlllIlIllIIIIll wrote:

3 noob will be able to credit card insta titan instead of buying a char

They can already do this, via the Character Bazaar.


There is a difference between buying a char who specialised and training a day one char into a titan ?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#183 - 2016-01-18 18:16:54 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Querns wrote:
IlIIlIIIlllIlIllIIIIll wrote:

3 noob will be able to credit card insta titan instead of buying a char

They can already do this, via the Character Bazaar.

But they can use this to credit card to all V's something you can't do with the bazaar


Yes, you can, if you buy the right character.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#184 - 2016-01-18 18:18:01 UTC
IlIIlIIIlllIlIllIIIIll wrote:
Querns wrote:
IlIIlIIIlllIlIllIIIIll wrote:

3 noob will be able to credit card insta titan instead of buying a char

They can already do this, via the Character Bazaar.


There is a difference between buying a char who specialised and training a day one char into a titan ?

There's really not.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#185 - 2016-01-18 18:18:21 UTC
So CCP has decided to go on ahead and kill Eve huh? Mark my words CCP, this game's REAL decline starts here!
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#186 - 2016-01-18 18:18:34 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Querns wrote:
IlIIlIIIlllIlIllIIIIll wrote:

3 noob will be able to credit card insta titan instead of buying a char

They can already do this, via the Character Bazaar.

But they can use this to credit card to all V's something you can't do with the bazaar




You can't buy Plex, sell in game and use the isk to buy characters on the bazaar?

RIP Character Bazaar

Thanks for another kick to the nuts CCP
Lugh Crow-Slave
#187 - 2016-01-18 18:18:36 UTC
Querns wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Querns wrote:
IlIIlIIIlllIlIllIIIIll wrote:

3 noob will be able to credit card insta titan instead of buying a char

They can already do this, via the Character Bazaar.

But they can use this to credit card to all V's something you can't do with the bazaar


Yes, you can, if you buy the right character.


No you can't add currently it takes longer to train all to V than eve had been around so that charcuterie doesn't exist
The Slayer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#188 - 2016-01-18 18:19:36 UTC  |  Edited by: The Slayer
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Querns wrote:
IlIIlIIIlllIlIllIIIIll wrote:

3 noob will be able to credit card insta titan instead of buying a char

They can already do this, via the Character Bazaar.

But they can use this to credit card to all V's something you can't do with the bazaar



Have you any idea how insanely infeasible this is. You would need approximately 1500 plex injectors to get from 80mil to the 500mil you would need for max SP and in doing so you would be removing around 600,000,000 SP from the game.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#189 - 2016-01-18 18:19:37 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
So CCP has decided to go on ahead and kill Eve huh? Mark my words CCP, this game's REAL decline starts here!



I really hope it's not incarna 2.0
Lugh Crow-Slave
#190 - 2016-01-18 18:20:43 UTC
The Slayer wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Querns wrote:
IlIIlIIIlllIlIllIIIIll wrote:

3 noob will be able to credit card insta titan instead of buying a char

They can already do this, via the Character Bazaar.

But they can use this to credit card to all V's something you can't do with the bazaar



Have you any idea how insanely infeasible this is. You would need approximately 1500 plex injectors to get from 80mil to the 500mil you would need for max SP and in doing so you would be removing around 600,000,000 SP from the game.


But not impossable
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2016-01-18 18:21:59 UTC  |  Edited by: King Aires
The Slayer wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Querns wrote:
IlIIlIIIlllIlIllIIIIll wrote:

3 noob will be able to credit card insta titan instead of buying a char

They can already do this, via the Character Bazaar.

But they can use this to credit card to all V's something you can't do with the bazaar



Have you any idea how insanely infeasible this is. You would need approximately 1500 plex injectors to get from 80mil to the 500mil you would need for max SP and in doing so you would be removing around 600,000,000 SP from the game.



If they sell for 300mil a piece that is only 4.5 Trillion

It is entirely possible some in game could do that, but they wouldn't need to because those guys probably already have 100mil + SP

So they would really need less than 4 Trillion.

Wow, MATHS

450bil

You only need 450Bil
Marsha Mallow
#192 - 2016-01-18 18:22:01 UTC
Good to see this one is going ahead. It's well timed and I think CCP have taken the right approach by proposing then stepping back for a bit - players are actually demanding it now and have been for a few weeks.

The adjustments to the SP ratios look solid. Ongoing it might be worth adding more incremental steps, but for ease of use it's probably best to keep it streamlined for the time being.

You really need to find a way to remove skillbooks whose skills have been fully extracted. This OCD urge we have to tidy up our skillsheets isn't a joke >.> If they can't be removed from the sheet and restored to the inventory as a physical item even a r-click, delete option would do for the time being.

It might be worth considering integrating this into the proposal. The objections raised seemed to be that players might sell characters with unallocated SP on the bazaar, which is irrelevant under a system in which you need an extractor to reallocate the SP. There may well be a lot of players whose subs continued at various points and had no skills training, and I suspect they'll start petitioning this unallocated SP in larger numbers going forward. Perhaps it's worth issuing SP to players who are owed some within a particular timeframe as a gesture of goodwill?

We need to see those numbers on the Skill Extractors asap. This sentiment being expressed over gouging can be alleviated by taking the opportunity to create legitimate micro transactions - which Skins didn't quite achieve due to the pricing structure. The earlier blog suggested a price roughly equivalent to a character transfer - 'The Transneural Skill Extractor is analogous to the PLEX service fee in the character bazaar' - which is currently 2 plex or $20. With roughly 1.94m Sp acquired with max skills/implants/mapping currently per 30 days that's equivalent to 1/2 a plex or $5 per injector @ 500k SP (if you actually meant 2 plex per 500k it's ludicrously high). I ran the numbers on this shortly after the first blog and it's not too pricey at the lower levels, but it threw up some eye popping figures further up the scale. If you adopt this model the Injector will be twice the basevalue of the raw skillpoints in relation to $/Plex - I'm not sure what the effects of that will be on the Plex market, but it's a cringey proposition. I'm really looking forward to people generally being able to see some solid numbers - but trying to gestimate $ > Aurum with the Injector as an unknown variable and speculative raw SP values isn't an easy task.

It might be worth allowing people to convert Plex into small denomination Aurum tokens either to redeem or sell on the market for various reasons. And run an Aurum sale before/around deployment perhaps. Also give new characters a goodwill Injector on their character sheet - like a neural remap, that can only be redeemed by that character at over 5.5m sp? I'm thinking as a rookie gift that can be used or saved not one that generates an additional trade source. It might be worth making Aurum a buddy code reward alongside Plex/30 days gametime too. And we could do with being able to transfer Aurum between characters. I know there's probably residual Aurum on accounts from the initial CCP gift, but if people have scraps they can't redeem across multiple accounts, they could actually spend it if you allow them to consolidate.

Quote:
you’re also ready for some big changes in EVE

This sounds promising, hopefully there's a few more big theme ideas floating about.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#193 - 2016-01-18 18:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
What are you complaining about? Your support for this rubbish of a mechanic is what makes our newbies dependent on their credit card, not on how they play.

Your newbies?

But I thought it was about our newbies?

How many newbies are you getting?

Our, not your. Read what I write and what you wrote, dear.

Obil Que wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Your intuition that they weren't aiming for people to stack SP on their 80mil+ SP charcaters is correct.

Your idea (and CCP's) of how new players should be introduced to the game is troublesome - very troublesome.


Current:

Sorry Tommy, you can't play with us because you don't have X skill. Please wait [insert long wait time here] before you can come play with the big boys. Or you can spend hundreds of dollars buying PLEX to buy a character and give up your current character.

Future:

Hey Tommy, come play with us. Here's some SP to get you started. If you need more, you can get a jump start with a PLEX or two if you want to skip a couple weeks or a month of waiting.

Future Tommy seems to have better options...

What you describe is, first off,just a failure of a respective group being incapable of including low SP people in activities, and secondly and as stated before, nice conditioning into relying on your credit card limits to progress in the game rather than your time and skill, as well as opening them up for further mechanics that support credit card payment rather than ingame activities. If that is what future new players should be like, I feel sorry for your state of mind.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#194 - 2016-01-18 18:25:35 UTC
The only larger issue I see here is a lot of people to some extent assess the risk of somebody in system with them by their age. If I see a 3 day old pilot in a starter corp, it really doesn't bother me much. When said pilot uncloaks a T3 and lights a cov cyno it's going to throw me off. Will there be some way to determine that said 3 day old starter corp guy might actually be in a T3 with a cov cyno? :D
Joanna RB
JoJo Industries n Shipbreakers
#195 - 2016-01-18 18:29:10 UTC
Please, whatever you do with pricing, don't involve PLEXes in any way.

PLEXes are already hyperhyperhyperhyperhyperinflated in price, a lot of fault being the transition of plex just as a game time booster to a multi-use currency for character trades, multi character training, resculpts ect. It is the ridiculous high price of plex that is making eve more and more P2W, back when plexes were the more sensible price of 350m people buying them just for isk was a novelty, while now instead of subscribing another account a lot of players find they make a lot more isk just spending the RL money on plex rather than accounts and cashing the plex in - surely more active accounts, whether alts or unique players, is better for the game.
PLEX should really be returned to what it originally was, an item redeemable only for gametime. Create another token for resculpts, trades, training ect. Leave plex alone.
The Slayer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#196 - 2016-01-18 18:30:25 UTC  |  Edited by: The Slayer
King Aires wrote:
The Slayer wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Querns wrote:
IlIIlIIIlllIlIllIIIIll wrote:

3 noob will be able to credit card insta titan instead of buying a char

They can already do this, via the Character Bazaar.

But they can use this to credit card to all V's something you can't do with the bazaar



Have you any idea how insanely infeasible this is. You would need approximately 1500 plex injectors to get from 80mil to the 500mil you would need for max SP and in doing so you would be removing around 600,000,000 SP from the game.



If they sell for 300mil a piece that is only 4.5 Trillion

It is entirely possible some in game could do that, but they wouldn't need to because those guys probably already have 100mil + SP

So they would really need less than 4 Trillion.

Wow, MATHS

450bil

You only need 450Bil


I mathed it wrong, it's actually 2800 injectors. And it'll take 1.4billion extracted SP to get one character to 500milsp.

Oh an importantly doing this once will make CCP £14,000
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#197 - 2016-01-18 18:34:28 UTC
The Slayer wrote:


I mathed it wrong, it's actually 2800 injectors. And it'll take 1.4billion extracted SP to get one character to 500milsp.

Oh an importantly doing this once will make CCP £14,000



That is ok because including the Dev skills there is only 496mil possible skill points
Lugh Crow-Slave
#198 - 2016-01-18 18:34:56 UTC
The Slayer wrote:


I mathed it wrong, it's actually 2800 injectors. And it'll take 1.4billion extracted SP to get one character to 500milsp.



This just limits the number of ppl who can do it that's all
Kairg
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#199 - 2016-01-18 18:36:26 UTC
Literally the worst idea ever. Can't believe they went ahead with this crap and then made it even worse than the original idea. And no, it's not like the bazaar as the characters on the bazaar have skills you can't change, whereas this idea you can choose to train up whatever you like instantly.

It's also irrelevant that the skill points have to be trained by somebody else first, as to the buyer it's just skill points on demand. As PLEX = isk, this is skill points for real money. Hello micro transactions that were promised never to be implemented.

Didn't I read that most of the CSM were against this? I guess their opinion doesn't matter then.

This is just a big middle finger to all the committed 2003/4 players.
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#200 - 2016-01-18 18:36:53 UTC
Magic Park wrote:
i hope you won't allow extracting SP from the starting skillset?
If that would be the case the following plan is probably broken.

1. Create new character with about 400k SP
2. Remap
3. Train for 2 days to get up to 500k SP
4. Extract 500k SP
5. Transfer injector to another toon.
6. Biomass
7. Goto 1

With this method you would be able to extract 15 full injectors in a month.

Can't extract unless you have 5,500,000 SP.