Player Features and Ideas Discussion

wardecs have a minimal impact on me as i would rarely leave null and only do so to JC to take care of some business now and then. Almost all of which i can have my alt do or do remotely. It adds a couple more steps to the process.



Its abuse. Wardecs were intended to A) make high sec risky at certain times( during a war dec) while providing safety the other times. Their is a reason concord has the ability to insta pop ships. B) to create semi controlled pvp environments for pvp.

I could easily argue that if it was CCPs intentions to allow such actions as what currently goes on with wardecs, there would be no high sec. Lets do that. Lets make everything null.

What has happened over the last 3 or 4 years is that these high sec gankers wardec half of eve. usually pve only corps and alliances and null sec alliances. And then park in trade hubs waiting for easy kills. Null alliances dont mess with them. Why? because they run and hide in docks as soon as we come out of null to pvp with them. They play dock games just like they complain about with their high sec pvers.

They dont want to pvp, they want a free lunch. They are no different than the high sec freighter gank groups. They want to gank people that dont fight back and then hide in a dock when someone that actually can fight them fights back.

So lets make it all null. Problem solved. Miners can mine and wardeccers can spend the rest of their eve life hiding in docks from real pvp.

EvE is a PvP game. No one is exempt from PvP, even those corps that claim to be PvE only.


You know, if those "PvE only" corps would admit to themselves that this is a PvP game, and actually do something besides **** and moan about it, they'd see a lot fewer people trying to wardec them. Wardeccers, like all other predators in existence, cull the weak and lame from the herd. The carebears have just as much power to make the wardeccers dock up, but they refuse to. All you hear when you suggest it is whining about how it cuts into their profits and is too much effort.


How is this a bad thing? If all they want are the easy kills, then the obvious solution is to stop offering them easy kills. It doesn't take changing wardec mechanics or making highsec 100% safe. It takes the players on the defending side of the wardec to step up. Stop being a victim. Stop being content. Stop being nothing more than a NPC with a slightly better AI.

I just want the docking timer to be fixed. It should work as follows.

If you perform an aggressive act - you can't dock.
Your 1 minute docking timer starts after ALL of the following conditions are met:
1. You're not aggressing anyone
2. No one is aggressing you

You accomplish number 2 by killing or driving off all hostiles involved in the engagement or by leaving grid.

It would ensure a sense of commitment in engagements.



One of the dumbest mechanics in eve is that you can conduct aggressive acts outside a station and the station prevents you from docking, BUT if you just don't do anything aggressive for a minute the docking manager suddenly forgets what just happened. You should have to leave grid, kill or drive off all agressors to regain docking rights.


We need commitment from both sides of engagements. Basically if you've aggressed and you're still being shot at,pointed or webbed - no docking.


On the other hand, if you don't do anything aggressive - you'd be free to dock as now.

So the docking manager will forget what happened if the other guy is dead and that makes more sense to you?

I agree it's an ugly mechanic, an needs to be changed,
If you read any of my posts on structure based wardec system, that to would make does kind of tactics more or less a mute point,
If the attacker if hiding and refusing to fight, go bash his wardec structure and end the war that way!

Yet, you still don't actually have any data to present. Why, it's almost like you're lying and are just bumping your own ****-thread in direct violation of the board rules.

There are plenty of ways to avoid the wardecs, be creative.

-1

After reading some discussion on this topic I too thought there could be structures or nodes introduced to affect the status of a war dec.

Not sure if that idea has been posted by someone else, but here is what I thought would make it more interesting:

Starting a War Dec, cost, duration all remains the same. Introduce something like command nodes that spawn in a time window set by the defender, and spawn in the defenders corp/alliance designated HQ constellation. These would spawn once per day of the war dec for the defender and if they defender can capture them all the war is over instantly.

Why, what does this accomplish?
1. Forces war declarers to actively keep a war going and not just use it as a harassment tool.
2. More likely to create content as even weaker corps may feel they can capture nodes if not fight the enemy directly.
3. This makes it very hard for any mass war deccing groups to maintain huge lists of wars as they will be required to daily take action on all wars in progress.

I hope CCP considers something like this to move the war declarations back into a strategic game design and out of the gank and harassment side of things.

The flaw in all the war structure ideas is that it is out of docking ring. A good number of empire war dec folks will change occupations if they have to leave a docking ring and become at risk. Also the corps w/ 100 or so active decs run the risk of having their war structures over run by numbers which is a concept they simply can't bear.

Having a way for the defending corps to end a war dec through force of guns and in a place out of docking/jump range would be a great start to turning the current war dec corp situation into something meaningful down the road. The truth of the matter is that, though smaller in number, the war dec forum warriors are more organized and more attached to defending the borked mechanics now in place. They are fighting for their way of life. The defenders are disorganized and since it's not their core eve activity not as dedicated to fixing the obvious problems.

The biggest problems (sorry for no numbers on this) are that war decs are currently meaningless and totally not fun.

Meaningless: If 2 corps have a problem they want to settle with space violence, the current assist mechanism quickly erases any original meaning attached to the conflict as dozens of assist mails roll in the within minutes of the war being declared.

Not fun: once the coolness of wonking ships on the Jita undock (fill in pipe choke point or hub of your choice) wears off, it's meh. If that doesn't get old for you - great, but "doesn't get old" isn't equivalent to "fun".

The mechanics suck. They need fixed.

Plausible options:
1. Remove war dec assist - if you want help - hire a merc, this free adds thing is horrible - The game already allows you to seek out and pay or negotiate for additional help - there needs to be a reasonable cost to join a conflict.
2. Have something in space that if taken by force ends the war - put the aggressor corp at risk outside of the docking ring.
3. Scale the costs like they used to be. Small v. Large = cheap and Large v. Small = expensive. Scaling costs and keeping the current assist mechanics intact would render the cost scaling useless. Each additional conflict a corp enters should have a higher participation fee.
4. Change docking/jump mechanics such that an engagement must be complete before docking/jumping - complete engagement would be ships need to leave grid before they can dock/jump. De-aggressing and tanking for 1 minute should not allow docking/jumping if the other half of the aggression is still engaging you.

In general - HS war decs need meaning and HS engagements need more commitment (your engagement plan should not need to include racing against a timer - seriously - wtf?)

Good riddance to bad mercs. I live and breathe wardecs and really don't care if the hubhuggers are inconvenienced.



No, we're fighting for our way of life when ideas like "social corps" come up proposing ways to opt out of wardecs. We're fighting for our way of life when CCP proposes killing the watchlist. When some of my fellow wardeccers oppose defender objectives, they're just trying to keep their easy button warfare.

As for your ideas:

1. Remove war dec assist - if you want help - hire a merc, this free adds thing is horrible - The game already allows you to seek out and pay or negotiate for additional help - there needs to be a reasonable cost to join a conflict.

-- The advantage of the ally system is that it brings in mercenaries only for the duration of the war. Once the original conflict is ended, all parties involved are at peace. Here's an idea for a modifiication to the existing setup: Allow the aggressor to bring allies into the war as well should it escalate. Maybe if the defender adds a second or third ally, the aggressor can then bring in their own allies until they have one less ally than their opponent. Wars could definitely get interesting then.

2. Have something in space that if taken by force ends the war - put the aggressor corp at risk outside of the docking ring.

-- This is a common suggestion and I support it in theory, but find it hard to envision a good solution, especially given the state of the current alliance system. That would need to change along with this.

3. Scale the costs like they used to be. Small v. Large = cheap and Large v. Small = expensive. Scaling costs and keeping the current assist mechanics intact would render the cost scaling useless. Each additional conflict a corp enters should have a higher participation fee.

-- I agree there should be penalties for a large entity going after a small one. There should also be penalties for a large corp allying into a war against a smaller one. The idea should be to encourage choosing appropriate targets, not something you can steamroll.

4. Change docking/jump mechanics such that an engagement must be complete before docking/jumping - complete engagement would be ships need to leave grid before they can dock/jump. De-aggressing and tanking for 1 minute should not allow docking/jumping if the other half of the aggression is still engaging you.

-- This would change so much of how Eve is played I'm not sure it's a good idea. As much as I hate station games and refuse to play them, it's easy enough to simply not engage people inside a docking radius.