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Crime & Punishment

 
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An open letter to the fine agents of CODE

Author
Saeger1737
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#21 - 2016-01-14 06:22:18 UTC
I wonder how many code hate posts have gotten locked since code came to be....

MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!

Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#22 - 2016-01-14 06:24:51 UTC
bwaha! this thread is great!

Moon Moon Burdy wrote:
Oh! and all the posts end in "namaste" which I think (and I may be mistaken) means "I slept with your wife instead of giving her tennis lessons as contracted" or something.


It's simply another term for namaskar and is far more polite and civil than your rather vulgar interpretation.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
#23 - 2016-01-14 08:17:10 UTC
OP, I'm going to let you in on a little known secret. There is a group of players in this game that hasn't and most likely never will be ganked by code. This group actually consists of the vast majority of eve online players. So its best to let them keep pretending that they own hisec and just be about your business, these are not the droids your looking for.

Tyyler DURden says "use soap"

Vanilla Mooses
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2016-01-14 11:00:26 UTC
OP assumes that the fine agents of the New Order work on his schedule. OP is, of course, mistaken.

To give you an analogy, OP - if a police officer is responding to a call about a crazed madman discharging a firearm, he or she is not going to stop and write you a ticket for littering.

In Uedama, agents are often busy with serious crimes (Hauling of many billions worth of contraband goods produced by illegal mining). Your crime is simply too minor, and agents are too busy protecting New Eden from the more serious criminals.

However, if you continue to blatantly violate the law, you will find yourself in trouble at some point. I strongly recommend that you contact a agent of the New Order as soon as possible and secure a proper permit. Having your paperwork in order is never a bad idea.
Wuzu
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2016-01-14 13:53:58 UTC
Elite Harvester wrote:
"Why do you not try to catch me?", cried the sardine to the fleet of whaling ships.

Yes, friend, your shameless display of bot-aspirancy is terrible and I strongly urge you to repent your sins. However, in Uedama there are bigger fish to fry if you catch my driftwood. You see Highsec is rich with opportunities to create content and large amounts of it parade through Uedama everyday with some of Highsec's worst offenders at the helm.

Meditate on that. Blink


Thank you sir for your advice to meditate, that is always sound advice and I believe that people would be happier if they did more of it. I must state again that the advice given to me by the fine agents of CODE is once again helpful and shows an altruistic spirit that many of us could better emulate. Just thinking of the concern shown to me by the agents is moving. From advice to get a dog for companionship, linguistic, and now mediation I believe your concern for my happiness physically, intellectually and now even spiritually is profound.

Couple that with the council of patience, and now even a candid discussion regarding the creation of content and ship prioritization I am amazed at your helpfulness and yes, your candor. I am however once again confused. In the earlier post I was advised that mine was a lack of patience, now it appears you are telling me that it is in fact the fit, or lack thereof, of my ship that is cause for my exclusion. I did in fact catch your “driftwood” Certainly; however, to someone not driven by profit but rather only a genuine desire to enforce the CODE the size of the fish should not be of great or really any concern. Unless perhaps the prior statement of cause was disingenuous.. Something I do in no manner attribute to what you have stated
.
One point of edification regarding my motives does however need to be stated, only so that confusion may be avoided. My goal is not to “get caught” or to not “get caught” which both represent end states; rather, my simple goal is to pursue the NoN Dharma which is removed from such banal considerations. I believe that those making this assumption regarding my motives are simply projecting what would be their motivations into the equation if they were me but in so doing have failed to understand mine. This is common behavior so I, of course, hold no malice towards them. In other words, sometime when people interact we assume that our motivations are a shared commonality, in some cases this leads to misunderstanding. It is my hope that by spreading the NoN Dharma that these misunderstandings will occur with less frequency.

Namaste’
Wuzu

Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#26 - 2016-01-14 14:38:33 UTC
I, for one, think there is a very important point here.

We have here a gentleman who needs to be serviced by the New Order but, at a crossroads of supply and demand is simply unable to get satisfaction in a timely manner.

It brings to point a fine idea. We need a DIY guide to self enforcing the New Order.

In this case, he could award himself penance for his crimes through a simple ritual (self destruct, pod pop, biomass, etc...) and could forego burdening the active agents.

Has CODE been working on a DIY guide so that he may more easily gank himself?

I see this as a necessity.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#27 - 2016-01-14 15:13:39 UTC
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
I, for one, think there is a very important point here.

We have here a gentleman who needs to be serviced by the New Order but, at a crossroads of supply and demand is simply unable to get satisfaction in a timely manner.

It brings to point a fine idea. We need a DIY guide to self enforcing the New Order.

In this case, he could award himself penance for his crimes through a simple ritual (self destruct, pod pop, biomass, etc...) and could forego burdening the active agents.

Has CODE been working on a DIY guide so that he may more easily gank himself?

I see this as a necessity.

Better idea for penance: he buy a catalyst and gank something. He gets the ship loss he craves AND does the lord's work.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Nitshe Razvedka
#28 - 2016-01-14 15:13:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Nitshe Razvedka
Wuzu wrote:
Dear Members of CODE,

I hope this letter finds you in good health and enjoying your experience in New Eden, that aside.

I am a bit confused and I must confess disappointed over my treatment in Uedama. For over a week now, in pursuit of the NoN Dharma, I have made the long and sometimes hazardous journey to Uedama. I have made it a point to use autopilot and I have warped from gate to gate and station to station, taking great care to linger at each point. In fact, once in desperation I simply orbited several stations for extended periods of time, while doing so I went for tea paying absolutely no attention to the screen. I believe that any of this behavior rises to the level of bot aspirant if my understanding of the CODE is correct.

Yet, despite my sincere efforts, I have been offered no GF in local, as is your custom, nor have I been asked to purchase a mining permit or even been given the pleasure of being told “calm down miner” much less seeing the light that would precede my return to the station. I am in fact, feeling a bit cheated by the lackluster performance of “local law enforcement” and this despite the fact that I am aware that CODE agents are in the system...are you having coffee and dough nuts? Why have you forsaken your charge?

Certainly all of my actions, at least when taken together, must constitute at least a minor infraction of the CODE.

I have asked a few people about this apparent lack of interest on behalf of the agents enforcing the CODE and have been told that it is related to the ship I am flying. In accordance with the NoN Dharma I only fly rookie ships with no fit. I told the people that I spoke to that this could not be the case as on multiple occasions I have heard agents state that profit was not a motive for their action, nor was simply griefing other players; rather, their actions were the manifestation of a genuine desire to rid high sec of bot aspirant behavior.

Yet, despite my best efforts, I remain autopiloting, and circling stations in Uedma with nary a blink on my com, or the rewarding BOOM of my hull. What does a person have to do to get ganked these days? I must say that from what I have read James 315 would be most distressed and perhaps even ashamed of your behavior, I hope you take immediate action to remedy your short comings or at least make your actions align with your stated intentions.

I trust now that this sordid state of affairs has been brought to your attention that you will take all needed action to alleviate this dereliction of your stated duty.

Namaste’

Wuzu of the Non Sangha
Passive Resistance is a Revolutionary Act
NoN Dojo

Non Sangha or true Sangha, I am sure you are not taking the **** out of the vaipulya sutras. Buddhists and Buddha can be vengeful.

The Buddha…said…”When I recall the past, I remember that I was the king of a great state…My name was Senyo, and I loved and venerated the Mahayana sutras…When I heard the Brahmins slandering the vaipulya sutras, I put them to death on the spot."

General conceptions of basic Buddhist ethics broadly conceived as unqualified pacifism are not true. Compassionate violence is at the very heart of the sensibility of this sutra. Buddhist kings had sophisticated and practical conceptual resources to support the use of force…The only killing compatible with Buddhist ethics is killing with compassion. Moreover, if a king makes war with compassionate intentions, even those acts can result in the accumulation of vast karmic merit.

"The follower of the Mahayana is not the one who observes the five precepts, but the one who uses the sword, bow, arrow, and battle ax to protect the monks who uphold the precepts and who are pure."

I am not Buddhist but I do read outside one Book.

You have already unravelled CODEs hypocrisies with your peaceful approach feel free to now kill them for karmic merit. Smile

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.

Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.

Wuzu
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2016-01-14 16:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Wuzu
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:

Non Sangha or true Sangha, I am sure you are not taking the **** out of the vaipulya sutras. Buddhists and Buddha can be vengeful.

The Buddha…said…”When I recall the past, I remember that I was the king of a great state…My name was Senyo, and I loved and venerated the Mahayana sutras…When I heard the Brahmins slandering the vaipulya sutras, I put them to death on the spot."

General conceptions of basic Buddhist ethics broadly conceived as unqualified pacifism are not true. Compassionate violence is at the very heart of the sensibility of this sutra. Buddhist kings had sophisticated and practical conceptual resources to support the use of force…The only killing compatible with Buddhist ethics is killing with compassion. Moreover, if a king makes war with compassionate intentions, even those acts can result in the accumulation of vast karmic merit.

"The follower of the Mahayana is not the one who observes the five precepts, but the one who uses the sword, bow, arrow, and battle ax to protect the monks who uphold the precepts and who are pure."

I am not Buddhist but I do read outside one Book.

You have already unravelled CODEs hypocrisies with your peaceful approach feel free to now kill them for karmic merit. Smile


Excellent post, indeed you are correct. I would be remiss if I don't not elaborate simply by saying the samurai were Buddhist, as well as the ShaOlin monks, both group being known for their martial prowess. Buddhist have a rich history of being both peacemakers and even warriors when merited.

This is however not the aspect I am exploring with the NoN Sangha, for this, in this place, I am exploring the concept of passive resistance. One has to be careful in games least they cease to be games. While I do embrace Eve as a laboratory to test, if you will, some aspects of Buddhist thought, I am cognizant of the notion that this is a game and do not wish to interject an approach that could seem, for lack of a better words, overly serious or preachy.It is for that reason alone I will have to demur on a detailed discussion of the finer points of Buddhism unless you would like to continue in a private exchange, which I would be happy to do. This is simply out of respect for the other players. That said, I recognize that some of my behavior is sterotypical, I assure you this is done in an effort to keep it light, keep it fun, and keep it in game.

I am genuinely grateful to the players of Eve for allowing me this opportunity (not being sacracstic) and that does include the member of CODE and many other groups and individuals.

That said, and in fear that this may evolve into a Buddhist sermon :) which I am personally not qualified to deliver. I will close this thread for now and thank you all (for and against) for the thoughtful dialog and many good chuckles.

Namaste'
Wuzu of Non
Nitshe Razvedka
#30 - 2016-01-14 16:29:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Nitshe Razvedka
Wuzu wrote:
[quote=Nitshe Razvedka]
That said, and in fear that this may evolve into a Buddhist sermon :) which I am personally not qualified to deliver. I will close this thread for now and thank you all (for and against) for the thoughtful dialog and many good chuckles.

Namaste'
Wuzu of Non

I would encourage you to continue to post regularly, Eve is a vast diaspora of communities, and your perspective is unique to the C &P Forum.

You are another lotus emerging from Eve's muddy water pond.

Big smile

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.

Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.

Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
#31 - 2016-01-15 08:18:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyyler DURden
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:
Wuzu wrote:
[quote=Nitshe Razvedka]
That said, and in fear that this may evolve into a Buddhist sermon :) which I am personally not qualified to deliver. I will close this thread for now and thank you all (for and against) for the thoughtful dialog and many good chuckles.

Namaste'
Wuzu of Non

I would encourage you to continue to post regularly, Eve is a vast diaspora of communities, and your perspective is unique to the C &P Forum.

You are another lotus emerging from Eve's muddy water pond.

Big smile

I will offer the same encouragement to you that you offered to Wuzu. Ive enjoyed the exchanges between you two and hope to see posts from both of you.

Tyyler DURden says "use soap"

Avvy
Doomheim
#32 - 2016-01-17 08:36:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Bing Bangboom wrote:
As is often the case in matters of space lawyering, either poor reading skills or stubborn ignorance are to blame. The situation discussed here is clearly covered in the New Halaima Code of Conduct and even a short evening of studying this would have negated any of this, may I say, insincere, attempt to confuse the citizens of highsec.

From the Code;

"Q. HA HA I am mining ice right now, you can't stop me!

As Supreme Protector, some may expect me to doggedly enforce the rules at all times against all offenders. This is a misperception of my role. Aside from those who have purchased indulgences, I will bump whomever I choose, whenever I choose. Your mining operations are entirely at my mercy. If I feel like stopping you from mining, I will; if not, I won't."



This specific discussion of bumping has been expanded in later documents by James 315 to cover all New Order activities including ganking of both mining ships, freighters and yes, rookie ships and shuttles.

The Agents in Uedama just haven't got around to you yet. Your turn, like all bot aspirants, will come. It will just be when WE choose, not you.



So the CODE is a myth, it doesn't really exist other than for an excuse to gank when they feel like it.

What I bolded and underlined isn't part of a code, its a get out clause. If you put a get out clause into a code it ceases to be a code and is nothing more than an excuse for doing something.
412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2016-01-17 12:02:42 UTC
This...........again........inb4lock

A True Champion of High Security Space

Nitshe Razvedka
#34 - 2016-01-17 18:42:21 UTC
412nv Yaken wrote:
This...........again........inb4lock

I loved hearing about your transport being ganked. Big smile Wuzu you were right about karma. Blink

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.

Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.

Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#35 - 2016-01-18 19:45:30 UTC
Avvy wrote:


So the CODE is a myth, it doesn't really exist other than for an excuse to gank when they feel like it.

What I bolded and underlined isn't part of a code, its a get out clause. If you put a get out clause into a code it ceases to be a code and is nothing more than an excuse for doing something.


Citizen, you mistake being in control for needing an excuse....

A myth wouldn't have destroyed over 24 trillion ISK of shipping in three years and accelerating (over 1 trillion already this month). A myth wouldn't have blown up over 124,000 ships and pods since 2013. A myth wouldn't require the locking of every thread that mentions it.

No, what you see in the Code is the effect that "A Big Idea" with several hundred believers enforcing it has on a game DEDICATED to the exploding of spaceships. In what you call the "get out clause", James just clearly informs you of your position in the food pyramid. Which is the bottom without any control over our activities. The gazelle doesn't try to mock the lion "Oh, you are just using hunger as an excuse to kill me". The plankton doesn't tell the whale, "Don't eat us because you NEED us!". No, miners, like algae, exist to be consumed in the creation of content.

It should be very clear to everyone by now that the Code is not an excuse for ganking you.

We don't need an excuse....


Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com

Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#36 - 2016-01-18 19:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
Bing Bangboom wrote:
Avvy wrote:


So the CODE is a myth, it doesn't really exist other than for an excuse to gank when they feel like it.

What I bolded and underlined isn't part of a code, its a get out clause. If you put a get out clause into a code it ceases to be a code and is nothing more than an excuse for doing something.


Citizen, you mistake being in control for needing an excuse....

A myth wouldn't have destroyed over 24 trillion ISK of shipping in three years and accelerating (over 1 trillion already this month). A myth wouldn't have blown up over 124,000 ships and pods since 2013. A myth wouldn't require the locking of every thread that mentions it.

No, what you see in the Code is the effect that "A Big Idea" with several hundred believers enforcing it has on a game DEDICATED to the exploding of spaceships. In what you call the "get out clause", James just clearly informs you of your position in the food pyramid. Which is the bottom without any control over our activities. The gazelle doesn't try to mock the lion "Oh, you are just using hunger as an excuse to kill me". The plankton doesn't tell the whale, "Don't eat us because you NEED us!". No, miners, like algae, exist to be consumed in the creation of content.

It should be very clear to everyone by now that the Code is not an excuse for ganking you.

We don't need an excuse....




I have no issue with CODE. I quite like the content. However, I feel sorry for the participants because you have to create both the input and output of your own content.

Your targets are putting almost no effort into it.

In the benefit of everyone, I would love to see CODE end.

I propose the following as a way to end CODE:

If they brought back can flipping, baiting, and cheap wardecs... The Ganking would drop back to a moneymaking scheme instead of the final viable way to create non-consensual player interactions in high-sec.

Yes?
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#37 - 2016-01-18 20:11:39 UTC
Mobadder Thworst wrote:


I have no issue with CODE. I quite like the content. However, I feel sorry for the participants because you have to create both the input and output of your own content.

Your targets are putting almost no effort into it.

In the benefit of everyone, I would love to see CODE end.

I propose the following as a way to end CODE:

If they brought back can flipping, baiting, and cheap wardecs... The Ganking would drop back to a moneymaking scheme instead of the final viable way to create non-consensual player interactions in high-sec.

Yes?


I'm still mad about the end of can flipping. If they brought it back, I would be back flipping cans immediately.

BUT, I would be flipping cans for the Code.

Bringing all the things you list back won't end CODE. It's gotten too big, spread too far and is indelibly written into highsec life. Those of us who have been Agents for years have committed to it beyond a mere game mechanic. The New Order exists to save highsec. The loss of can flipping and awoxing were symptoms of a mind set we formed to fight. That mindset hasn't gone away even if CCP backtracks on their changes to increase the safety of highsec.

In previous posts, you've correctly identified the increase in ganking as a natural result of the nerfing of other means of highsec aggression. However, it is just a tool. You surely remember that our first tool was just bumping into the miners. That tool still exists yet ganking has long surpassed it as the signature method of Code enforcement. Do not confuse what we DO with what we ARE.

Bringing back the old days won't end CODE. It will certainly increase the amount of content creation, interest and fun in highsec. But the New Order, including CODE. is here to stay.

Now that we control highsec, you surely don't expect us to give it back, do you?

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com

Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#38 - 2016-01-18 21:57:03 UTC
Bing Bangboom wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:


I have no issue with CODE. I quite like the content. However, I feel sorry for the participants because you have to create both the input and output of your own content.

Your targets are putting almost no effort into it.

In the benefit of everyone, I would love to see CODE end.

I propose the following as a way to end CODE:

If they brought back can flipping, baiting, and cheap wardecs... The Ganking would drop back to a moneymaking scheme instead of the final viable way to create non-consensual player interactions in high-sec.

Yes?


I'm still mad about the end of can flipping. If they brought it back, I would be back flipping cans immediately.

BUT, I would be flipping cans for the Code.

Bringing all the things you list back won't end CODE. It's gotten too big, spread too far and is indelibly written into highsec life. Those of us who have been Agents for years have committed to it beyond a mere game mechanic. The New Order exists to save highsec. The loss of can flipping and awoxing were symptoms of a mind set we formed to fight. That mindset hasn't gone away even if CCP backtracks on their changes to increase the safety of highsec.

In previous posts, you've correctly identified the increase in ganking as a natural result of the nerfing of other means of highsec aggression. However, it is just a tool. You surely remember that our first tool was just bumping into the miners. That tool still exists yet ganking has long surpassed it as the signature method of Code enforcement. Do not confuse what we DO with what we ARE.

Bringing back the old days won't end CODE. It will certainly increase the amount of content creation, interest and fun in highsec. But the New Order, including CODE. is here to stay.

Now that we control highsec, you surely don't expect us to give it back, do you?


It's just my opinion, but the re-commissioning of the old highsec venues of mayhem would change how we play and the size of our organizations.

I don't think the modern super-MERCs could survive in their current format. The smaller the organization, the more personal the content, IMO. Nobody understands that better the the high-sec pvp'er.

You guys grew out of a protest I also voiced. I get it and I'm sure CODE would sustain in some format. My only argument is that you will change to accommodate more efficient content production techniques... Leaving behind the suicide gank model (mostly).

I was wrong to say it would end CODE, but it would change CODE and highsec for the better.
Nitshe Razvedka
#39 - 2016-01-18 22:11:55 UTC
Every time I read a CODE post its either:

"Look at how many windows I've licked today"

or

"blah blah blah James315 says blah blah blah I'm a hapless parrot blah"


I don't think you are oxygen thieves', but as your mum's would say; "special".

<3


Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.

Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.

Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#40 - 2016-01-18 22:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:
Every time I read a CODE post its either:

"Look at how many windows I've licked today"

or

"blah blah blah James315 says blah blah blah I'm a hapless parrot blah"


I don't think you are oxygen thieves', but as your mum's would say; "special".

<3




Have you ever heard the term "projecting"?

when presented with something they don't understand, some people fill the gaps with projections of themselves.

Is it possible that your inability to digest the content on these boards is leaving you with no takeaways besides the inane projections of yourself that you perceive.


And so I ask, who is the window licker here?
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