Intergalactic Summit

Thank you for the reasoned answer sir, but I must reply.

Considering the Gallente forcibly occupied Caldari Prime during the Caldari-Gallente war, and further poured in colonists onto the planet with what I interpret as little to no regard for the wishes and best interests of the natural citizens there, what right under Gallentean ideals of self determination and liberty can the Federation then claim ownership of the planet? Unless you believe force of arms is a legitimate means of conquest?

It seems my good Sir, a good enough argument for you and your State allies. so who am I to argue.

That was my point. It seems of the largest CONCORD signatories, the one least likely to admit to forcefull annexation are the Federation. Instead, time and again I see Federals speak of concepts such as the local population, which in the case of Caldari Prime they mostly put there, rather then dropping the hypocracy and openly admitting they want the planet for political gain. This, in my opinion, is something difficult for many Gallente to admit, as it breaks the narrative of being the beacon of so called "liberty" and "self determination."

Which brings me back to the concept it's as good an argument as any. Why, then, if force of arms is a legitimate conquest method did you bring up the concept that the Caldari have no more right to the planet then the Federation, Mr Syragius? Especially in light that they'd successfully used force of arms to reclaim their former home. If force of arms is a legitimate means of aquiring territory, why do you bring up the concepts of the local population, the fact that State citizens for the most part aren't born there, and a general attempt to paint the Caldari as untrustworthy?

It seems to me they're the most clear, direct and honest in their intentions for Caldari Prime.

Greatest comment in this thread so far!
Well done.

No doubt, you are right on the account of Mr Syragius.

On account of the liberty and freedom of the people, I'm guessing this relates mostly to the Federation colonists. Do you think they are more deserving of protection, self determination and rights by virtue of being ethnically of Federation origins? Are they the only ones allowed a sense of self determination? It seems rather convenient to be concerned about the rights of people the Federation Government dumped there, likely for the purpose of having more then just a case of military conquest to continue their concerns.

As a group that stands as a beacon of 'democracy', do you think the Federation would be keen on a general plebiscide of the entire popualtion of the planet, and if the result was a move back to the State, would it respect the wishes of the people?



So holding a planet, and its original population, to ransom and conducting blatant annexation is a perfectly acceptable way for the Federation to behave for the purpose of foreign affairs. Almost makes me wonder why Federal citizens are so keen to point fingers at others for doing such things in the past when the same is being conducted by your Government to this very day.

Forgive me for these probing questions, but I find the Federation offensive in espousing values, but willingly discarding them towards others when politically convenient. Yet, they feel the most capable of judging others for their actions, with stern faces of disapproval.

Don't listen to Makoto, she is a liar and can't be considered Caldari anymore, thus her usage of "we" is invalid.
(Ref. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=381560 )

Gallente did broke the peace, first by a terror act, performed by Federal Navy against the peace conference station, then by their racist attacks all over Caldari Prime against Caldari. Tibus Heth has only reacted to defend our people and homeworld from gallentean agression. They started war 200 years ago, and so did they now. Again.

As a result of gallentean actions on Caldari Prime (defacing of Caldari monuments, beating of Caldari people, burning arhcheological digs), they should not be allowed to stay on Caldari Prime anymore. Any gallentean, who will put their dirty foot on the soil of Caldari Prime must be considered as an occupant and as a militant unit disregarding their age, equipment and words.

And every damn gallente occupant MUST DIE.

Killing them is my profession.

Well I did learn moral pragmatism from the Amarr.

But here we are talking at each other, and not to each other, forgive me.

I shouldn’t have interrupted your.. discussion, but I slip from time to time and like you, let slanders guide me to dark places.

So… to answer Madam’uselle Kims question.

Yes, dear he was a hero, who else could make the Ultra – Nationalists seem rational, and a pointless conflict seem the very soul of logic.

Hero indeed.

Meh. That'd sting more if I hadn't already given your senate props for acting like human beings for once.

James, one of these days the Federation will lay aside the stolen jewel of Caldari Prime and find that it affects them very little to almost not at all. Will you all be surprised, do you think, when the Caldari State has no further business against you and a strong urge to move on?

There is, literally, nothing else that you have which the State wants. We have all the resources we could possibly need and plenty of room to expand away from the direction of our shared borders. We have no other ideological, political or religious need to strive against you and, in fact, many of us find individual Gallente perfectly charming fellows. We have a history of being able to cooperate in business and in research and about the only venture I would suggest against would be joint colonisation projects.

It's not like we lack for other enemies, after all. You have the Amarr, Serpentis and Angel Cartel. We have the Gurista. Both of us could concentrate more on the Sansha issue. The Drifters are a potential problem of vast scale.

I don’t disagree Pieter, Caldari Prime is of little economic value. In fact, it’s a burden. Strategically however it’s indispensable, and I think you know it. Considering the States historical proclivities, we simply cannot have significant State assets within the heart of the Federation.

Let’s suppose that tomorrow a mutually agreeable solution was found to… as Ms. Kim so explicitly describes… the “Gallente problem” upon Caldri Prime. Being handed the planet in total how long would it be until we heard ‘perfectly reasonable voices within the State… we need space… we need more space… we need stations… we need dedicated transit routes. Then when any one of these or any other ‘perfectly reasonable’ requests were denied… well then we have a ‘perfectly reasonable’ reason to launch the next sneak-attack, using the very ‘perfectly reasonable’ concessions to your advantage.

It is a pity indeed, that we cannot do collectively what we manage individually. But then I have learned to trust some few Caldari. How we can come to trust the State, I do not know. But one day, perhaps, and just perhaps, if you and I live long enough, we can have that.... drink.


Perhaps, but I find the Amarr perfectly agreeable business partners, and I have many… well… Let us say, I find opportunity in many places.