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Tibus Heth. Great Caldari Hero ? Or, Greatest Caldari Hero ?
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#21 - 2016-01-14 10:34:24 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
There are, however, the issues like Heth's nearly bankrupting KK, his forces downing a freighter of KK employees protesting against Heth's failure to complete institution of meritocratic reforms as he had promised, and that whole 'ordering the destruction of the Caldari homeworld' thing.

I see that liar Makoto is still out to loudmouth Caldari.

She has lost her honor when she was caught on her lies and disgraced herself even further, behaving like a coward who can't stand for her words. (Ref.: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=381560 )

Makoto isn't the person whose opinion should be taken into consideration when discussing Greatest Caldari Heroes. Cowards like Makoto Priano will never understand peoples with Caldari spirit.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Ophelia Lemm
Mayan calendar
Russian Legion of Honor
#22 - 2016-01-14 11:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ophelia Lemm
Historical figures of this magnitude rarely (pretty much never) turn out to be as good-doing and selfless as government-approved holoreels claim them to be. People who actually try to learn truth about their idols, beyond what "written by the victors" part of history can provide, often find themselves thoroughly dissapointed and broken-hearted. And majority does not even try. It is convinient, after all, to believe an illusion you make of someone instead of knowing bitter truth of their real motivations, goals, and methods. That's basically how propaganda works.

Make no mistake - I'm not here co claim anyhting about Tibus Heth, or anyone for that matter. It's just that this whole talk feels rather one-sided. I suppose you people know the caldari perspective - good for you. It`s a bit sad though that this is where you willing to stop. After all truth is a result of dispute, not bickering.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#23 - 2016-01-14 12:19:32 UTC
Ophelia Lemm wrote:
Historical figures of this magnitude rarely (pretty much never) turn out to be as good-doing and selfless as government-approved holoreels claim them to be. People who actually try to learn truth about their idols, beyond what "written by the victors" part of history can provide, often find themselves thoroughly dissapointed and broken-hearted. And majority does not even try. It is convinient, after all, to believe an illusion you make of someone instead of knowing bitter truth of their real motivations, goals, and methods. That's basically how propaganda works.

Make no mistake - I'm not here co claim anyhting about Tibus Heth, or anyone for that matter. It's just that this whole talk feels rather one-sided. I suppose you people know the caldari perspective - good for you. It`s a bit sad though that this is where you willing to stop. After all truth is a result of dispute, not bickering.

Truth can never be found by simple disputing. To learn the truth one must study the facts.

For example, facts, that Tibus Heth was really selfless man, who was even risking fighting unarmed against armed guards to prevent Caldari blood from spilling, who was known to live a life of a simple worker while being de-facto leader of the whole State without descending into luxury and hedonism like gallentean swines do.

As for not-Caldari point of view, Tibus Heth was the Caldari and Patriot, and his merits are to be measured from Caldari points of view and should be looked at through the prism of Caldari culture and traditions. Otherwise his actions could be seen... misunderstood.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Ophelia Lemm
Mayan calendar
Russian Legion of Honor
#24 - 2016-01-14 12:34:24 UTC
It is convinient to believe, not to know, indeed.

Gallente being swines appears to be your only argument so far. A pity. Makes me wonder, why talk about it on public forums then - if all you want is for everyone to accept your opinion.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#25 - 2016-01-14 14:10:04 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
There are, however, the issues like Heth's nearly bankrupting KK, his forces downing a freighter of KK employees protesting against Heth's failure to complete institution of meritocratic reforms as he had promised, and that whole 'ordering the destruction of the Caldari homeworld' thing.

I see that liar Makoto is still out to loudmouth Caldari.


Ah, Kim! Just the person I was expecting.

I regret to inform you that everything I said a matter of historical record. Why, I even had an attaché draw up a list of Galnet links to be cited. Consider this, capsuleers, a lesson on recent history.

In chronological order, on the claim of, 'his forces downing a freighter of KK employees protesting against Heth's failure to complete institution of meritocratic reforms as he had promised.' Home Guard and Providence Directorate both were under Heth's command.

YC115.02.27 - REPORTS OF UNREST AMONG KAALAKIOTA FACTORY WORKERS
YC115.03.01 - HOME GUARD AND STATE PEACEKEEPERS ATTACK DEFENSELESS PROTESTORS; CONCORD INTERVENES TOO LATE
YC115.03.05 - NUMEROUS CALDARI MANAGEMENT RESIGN; HETH PROMISES “SIGNIFICANT INVESTIGATIONS”
YC115.03.10 - PROVISTS ARREST AT LEAST FIVE EXECUTIVES, SUPPOSED FEDERATION OPERATIVES

In chronological order, on the claim of Heth's 'ordering the destruction of the Caldari homeworld.' Also of note is his personally lying about Admiral Yanala's fate, and his offering her tea for not destroying the Caldari homeworld.

YC115.03.19 - LUMINAIRE SITUATION STILL UNSTABLE, REVERED CALDARI ADMIRAL CALLED BACK INTO SERVICE
YC115.03.19 - ADMIRAL YANALA GIVES FIRST WEEKLY ADDRESS FROM ORBIT OF CALDARI PRIME
YC115.05.11 - CEP AND CALDARI NAVY TO INVESTIGATE CALDARI PRIME EVENTS
YC115.05.17 - SHIIGERU TELEMETRY DATA VINDICATES ADMIRAL YANALA
YC115.05.20 - ADMIRAL YANALA BEING WIDELY HAILED AS A HERO
YC115.05.22 - REPORT: ADMIRAL YANALA'S CLONE FAILED TO ACTIVATE
YC115.05.23 - CEP TO QUESTION EXECUTIVE OFFICER MININELA ERINEN UNDER OATH
YC115.05.25 - BREAKING NEWS: YANALA FORCED INTO TEA MAKER CEREMONY
YC115.05.27 - VIGILS FOR YANALA TURN VIOLENT
YC115.05.27 - TIBUS HETH'S YANALA SPEECH CUT SHORT BY RIOT
YC115.06.13 - PRIVATE FUNERAL HELD FOR VISERA YANALA; MEGACORP CEOS ATTEND

In chronological order, on the claim of 'Heth's nearly bankrupting KK.'

YC115.05.05 - TIBUS HETH DECLARES PLAN TO NATIONALIZE MEGACORPS; KK REVEALED TO BE IN FINANCIAL STRAITS
YC115.05.10 - KAALAKIOTA TO SELL ECHELON ENTERTAINMENT ASSETS TO COVER DEBT
YC115.05.13 - ECHELON ENTERTAINMENT AUCTION COMPLETED
YC115.06.14 - BREAKING NEWS: TIBUS HETH DENOUNCED BY CEP, TO BE OUSTED AS KK CEO
YC115.07.16 - KAALAKIOTA SELLS FURTHER ECHELON ASSETS
YC115.07.19 - CEP, KK CALL FOR HETH'S ARREST
YC115.07.30 - OIRITSUU APPOINTED INTERIM CEO IN KAALAKIOTA PRESS RELEASE
YC115.08.15 - KK STOCK RISES ON BACK OF OIRITSUU PLEDGE

I ask all pilots to read these. The historical perspective is useful.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Naoko Kanaka
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#26 - 2016-01-14 14:14:28 UTC
I believe the kids in TISHU would respond to the above post and its intended recipient with a "RIP."
Keta Lindur
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#27 - 2016-01-14 14:16:17 UTC
Naoko Kanaka wrote:
I believe the kids in TISHU would respond to the above post and its intended recipient with a "RIP."


From what I've heard via alliance communications and the periodic camera drone feed, you've forgotten "****ing savage" and "sick burn".
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#28 - 2016-01-14 14:16:31 UTC
Indeed, Kanaka-haani.

It is also worth noting that Heth-guri is indeed an outlaw in the State.

As I said before, it's fair to say that Heth's early rise was heroic, laudable, and brought glory to the State. His fall was tragic, and wholly his own doing.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#29 - 2016-01-14 14:26:09 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
There are, however, the issues like Heth's nearly bankrupting KK, his forces downing a freighter of KK employees protesting against Heth's failure to complete institution of meritocratic reforms as he had promised, and that whole 'ordering the destruction of the Caldari homeworld' thing.

I see that liar Makoto is still out to loudmouth Caldari.


Ah, Kim! Just the person I was expecting.

I regret to inform you that everything I said a matter of historical record. Why, I even had an attaché draw up a list of Galnet links to be cited. Consider this, capsuleers, a lesson on recent history.

I have just linked what you have said and where you were clearly lying, failing to prove your point or stand for your words.
That makes your claim that "everything you say is a matter of historical record" invalid. Since at least one of what you were saying were proven to be lie, there shall be NO trust to any of your other words afterwards.

In other words, only a complete idiot would trust your words, coward liar Makoto Priano. You have lost your honor and you have no place in discussion about Caldari. And on that point every your word can be discarded, except news links. But again, news links without your words could be simply ignored, since... well, yes. Because they are irrelevant to the discussion.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#30 - 2016-01-14 14:30:17 UTC
Impressive mental gymnastics! Even for you, Kim.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-01-14 14:41:12 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Impressive mental gymnastics! Even for you, Kim.

Begone, honorless coward.
I'd better discuss Caldari history and heroes with such lesser races as gallenteans instead of wasting my time on you.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Naoko Kanaka
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#32 - 2016-01-14 15:00:34 UTC
"Mental gymnastics" doesn't really do it justice.

She's twisted and tangled it into a Gordian knot.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#33 - 2016-01-14 15:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
But in all seriousness, Kim: I respect you as a combat pilot. However, your outspokenness, continued hero-worship of Heth-guri, and denunciation of all those who disagree with you as Gallente lapdogs have become farcical. I know you don't feel you're suffering, but I fear you may be delusional. Please seek medical assistance. Delusional tendencies can be treated, and you'll be happier for it.

As to the matter at hand, I believe Haritimado-haani and I are in agreement.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#34 - 2016-01-14 15:19:04 UTC
TISHU pet, don't you think you have mistaken the media?
This is GalNet, Intergalactic Summit, not a local for your types.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#35 - 2016-01-14 15:23:34 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
But in all seriousness, Kim: I respect you as a combat pilot. However, your outspokenness, continued hero-worship of Heth-guri, and denunciation of all those who disagree with you as Gallente lapdogs have become farcical. I know you don't feel you're suffering, but I fear you may be delusional. Please seek medical assistance. Delusional tendencies can be treated, and you'll be happier for it.

As to the matter at hand, I believe Haritimado-haani and I are in agreement.

A lion doesn't need a respect from an ant. I am a Caldari Officer and you are a dishonored liar. Know your place.

Besides, you are lying about me again. Since I don't call whom I disagree with as "Gallente lapdogs". But again, you are well known liar Makoto Priano, and if I called some pro-gallentean as a Gallentean lapdog, you will say I call that everyone I disagree with... just because you are a dishonorable liar.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Naoko Kanaka
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#36 - 2016-01-14 15:33:53 UTC
Last time I checked, neither I nor my organization qualify as "TISHU pets," and in fact, we've been wardecced by mercenaries on at least one occasion who we had good reason to suspect were likely paid by Anslo himself.

TISHU's particular flavor of colloquialism seemed rather appropriate, given the metaphorical brick that had just slapped you in the face.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#37 - 2016-01-14 15:34:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
I present to the public Kim raging against Tuulinen-haan, who may very well be the best example of a Patriot I know.

Diana Kim wrote:
I spit on threshold of your home, Tuulinen. I feel sorry I had respected you as Caldari. I cannot stand such double-faced gallentean bootlicking anymore.


Kim-haani, please seek help.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#38 - 2016-01-14 15:47:03 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
I present to the public Kim raging against Tuulinen-haan, who may very well be the best example of a Patriot I know.

Diana Kim wrote:
I spit on threshold of your home, Tuulinen. I feel sorry I had respected you as Caldari. I cannot stand such double-faced gallentean bootlicking anymore.


Kim-haani, please seek help.

Liar Makoto, stop dishonoring yourself further. You have pathetically missed the point of the message and what exactly I considered as gallentean bootlicking, referencing to phrase that has no meaning without.

Besides, are you really that stupid that thinking that pointing on one occurence proves it happens constantly?
You are not only dishonored liar, but you lack understanding on basic principles of logic. Every Caldari child learn maths. What was you doing at that time? Composing some lies about other students just because they were better than you too?..

In any way, I am not interested even to explaining you what was that topic about, since it was... other topic and... For Maker's sake. Those, who will want to understand can read it here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=451829

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#39 - 2016-01-14 15:48:06 UTC
Why oh why are you people feeding it attention? I swear, the problem with the IGS has never been these attention starved oddballs, but the dozens of people who will descend upon every demented uttering they make and thus turn every thread into absolute nonsense.

When you respond to them? You're the problem.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#40 - 2016-01-14 15:56:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Diana Kim
Naoko Kanaka wrote:

TISHU's particular flavor of colloquialism seemed rather appropriate, given the metaphorical brick that had just slapped you in the face.

Do you really consider an incompetent troll raging behind a NeoCom screen is "slapping me with a brick?" Considering you failed to provide any meaningful point except local-like trash talk.

Oh, and before Makoto will start yapping "I call anyone I disagree with as a Gallentean bootlicker", I'd like to note, that I don't actually disagree with you. Since I don't argue with you at all. I just notice your offensive unprovoking trolling and pointing out you for this.

And since it was unprovoked and myself being a Caldari officer I could only assume gallente trail in this. (Again, for idiots who loves to claim I call that for disagreement - read again. There was no argument, there was just offensive attack.)

And for you, Naoko I could add just this.
If you so love claiming crap like "slapping with a brick", maybe you would decide to prove yourself to be a human instead of a raging troll and would love to stand for your words. Maybe you will come to my quarters with a brick in your hand?
Or at least in a ship to my station?

That would be really amusing. Until then, I'll just discard you as another gallentean troll.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.