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"That" time of year again.

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Marsha Mallow
#81 - 2016-01-10 23:46:47 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I'm voting for Xenuria

Please explain as per your own criteria. I'd also like to know why you are voting for a Goon candidate. Tia.
Line by line btw.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

Once again, it will no doubt be largely Goons appointed members.

Once again, we shall have the minority (Null Sec) speaking for the majority (High Sec).

Once again, we will be voting for people people based on what tribe they are in (coalition)

... and yet again, we will be thinking about ourselves when we do this; without regard for whether they actually have the skills and neutral mindset to do a good job.

However, I want you to ask yourselves this:

- Why are you voting for that person?
- Is the CSM influence more gradual and insidious?
- Is the CSM too full of peacocks or selfish agendas to be taken seriously by CCP?
- Is CSM largely a lobby group?
- How can the whole process be improved?
- Are these questions too late?

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Jenshae Chiroptera
#82 - 2016-01-11 00:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Marsha Mallow wrote:
... Please explain ...
"Feck it"
Your post was actually the tipping point.
I now feel CSM is pointless, without hope and we might as well vote for Xenuria after the year CCP has given us.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#83 - 2016-01-11 00:24:40 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I found last year that most of High Sec doesn't know that a CSM even exists or what it does.

CCP does not make a big enough song and dance.
They could put up a notification like down time upon log in or they could stick it like a MoTD in Local chat.

How can a vote represent a majority when the majority doesn't know the vote even happens?
It's not CCPs fault if there are people who actively avoid paying attention to the game they play. It's not like the CSM is some hidden thing.

And the thing is, who's to say what the majority is? More characters live in highsec, sure, but that doesn't mean they support the highsec candidates. I have most of my characters living in highsec, with only a few in null and low, yet I vote mainly for null CSM members because that's where I live with my main and that's where I've wanted to see developed.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Marsha Mallow
#84 - 2016-01-11 00:44:49 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
... Please explain ...
"Feck it"
Your post was actually the tipping point.
I now feel CSM is pointless, without hope and we might as well vote for Xenuria after the year CCP has given us.

Porkies. You were screeching about this in 2012, and it's not unrelated now. I was going to ask you to rename the topic to 'time of the month' but prolly no-one would get it here. One of the people you quoted in your OP there was a formie corpie btw, beta player, goonhater, glorious badposter. He quite literally rage quit a director channel 3 years in because I said Hairgel Boy was fit (which was a lie, hairgel is vile). He then ragequit public because another (female) director remarked she'd been in GSF in the past on a sold alt. I think I was expected to scurry after him gushing apologies, but I couldn't be arsed so he quit playing. I still wonder whether I'm responsible, he is, or the ebil tubbies? Thoughts?

There's no tipping point as such other than the CSM process becoming obviously farcical in many respects. Unlike you, I've always been a supporter of the CSM, have voted for a lot of strong candidates, and appreciate the work that they've done. I also quite like Leeloo and how she runs things, so don't want to see any of the community team criticised over what might just be something that needs significant review. But we can't stop bad candidates from being elected, and we can't stop good candidates from also being elected then burned out by the process. This wastage of enthusiastic people playing against a hostile community, an ambivalent development team, and on a backdrop of what has become Nixon style real-politique just strikes me as a huge waste of time for everyone involved.

So yeh, feck it.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#85 - 2016-01-11 01:25:17 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:

Porkies. You were screeching about this in 2012, and it's not unrelated now.


We interrupt this thread for a special message to point out that the fellow you replied to (who likes to say that I am somehow a broken record who never says anything new) is full of it because of the two of us, I'm the one who HASN'T been on a multi-year crusade against the evils video game injustice Twisted

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2016-01-11 01:59:31 UTC
Lets see... A very small group of people, supposed to 'represent' a very large amount of players, elected through a process that many don't know about, which is easily monopolized, spreading flags of what 'they' feel Eve should be like, hindering CCP's attempts at progress in developing a game that entices large audiences, and doing so under the premise of what 'they' feel will make a 'better' Eve.

I'd rather abolish the CSM and rely on protests.
Avvy
Doomheim
#87 - 2016-01-11 03:00:11 UTC
Mithandra wrote:
...

I have zero interest in sending complete strangers to iceland to attempt to sway CCP in its decision making and game altering process.

To many power blocks with too many agendas for any of the games players to be totally unbiased.

...



That's kind of my feeling about it too.
Djsaeu
Doomheim
#88 - 2016-01-11 03:15:53 UTC
CSM?

Don't care, Don't know, Don't want to know.

I just pay to play.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2016-01-11 04:23:50 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Tippia wrote:
... Beyond that, assuming this hypothesis is actually accurate, it also raises an immediate question: what's the problem? ...
The obvious difference is huge alliances that put out mails and coalitions that all use the same forum.
One can reach many with Null Sec.
High Sec is far, far more divided and has no game pressure to group up the same way.


Wait... you mean to say that, superior PR wins elections???

WELL I NEVAH!

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#90 - 2016-01-11 04:59:45 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Wait... you mean to say that, superior PR wins elections???

WELL I NEVAH!


It's more like voting for prom queen than voting a representative that would lead to the betterment of Eve.

It's all about who has the most people that know them and really like to look at their.... youtube videos.... in tight clothing.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#91 - 2016-01-11 06:47:13 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
... (who likes to say that I am somehow a broken record who never says anything new) ....
Aww you finally got it and stopped filtering!
Now, the first stage is denial. Not much we can do to help you with that I'm afraid but I will try keep an eye out for when you get past it.
Marsha Mallow wrote:
... screeching + it's not unrelated now. ...
So yeh, feck it.
I guess that highlights how pointless it is.
I can at least say that I tried. I flew about, talked with as many people as I could, even directed them to various candidates to try and at least get some more votes.
I actually ran for CSM to try and do something.

Unlike Jenn aSnide who as far as I can tell has never actually contributed anything besides, "People are delusional and by implication I am superior."

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#92 - 2016-01-11 07:50:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Top Guac wrote:
Here are Sugar's first 25 posts about CSMX: http://www.lowseclifestyle.com/p/csmx.html (she's up to post 40 now, which can all be found in her blog)

Here's the official CCP CSM page: http://csm.eveonline.com/ (there is quite a bit there about things individual CSM members are doing)

There's lots of information there if you just look.

It's not particularly positive info at the moment though. Sugar's last few blogs and her AMA sounded like she was pretty down over the current state of affairs. I voted for her, both terms, amongst others and it ticks me off seeing anyone come out of that level of engagement with such obvious disappointment. I'll be damned if I sit back idly whilst people like her put that level of effort in then walk away feeling shite, and it's evident from too many competent former CSMs to ignore. Some of them are acting like they have PTSD and that's too high a price to nominate another player to pay on our behalf over a game, or on behalf of a community who don't appreciate the entity.

Plus have you even looked at the people running this time? If anyone thinks this year was a disaster, next year will be a hairpulling armageddon judging by who is running. The only one I can see worth voting for atm, and with any endorsement of note, is Steve. Who CCP might as well recruit at this point anyway. The rest either don't have a clue what the CSM is and make outrageous promises or are gibbering smackmonkeys you can pretty much guarantee will cause loads of drama. It's a cringingly bad prospect as things stand, and despite the best intentions of some of the people applying the fact that so few with any real credibility are willing to sign up should be sending a massive signal that a shake up is needed.

That said I'm only halfway through the revised white paper. There are a few bits worth considering in there. Linky.


I've been following Sugar since her first term, and also Mike Azariah. The fact that Mike has gone AWOL at his blog and Sugar is struggling to keep with her CSM compromises against everyone and everything is depressing in itself; it sucks when bad things happen to nice people.

As I said, CSM was born from a breach of trust and IMO it has died in a breach of trust. Probably one of the first things on the table of the new CCO will be to decide what to do with the CSM, since in its current state I doubt that there was an outrage if CCP just disbanded it and no amount of good will can heal the wound caused by certain jerk.

CCP 2016 is not CCP 2005. EVE 2016 is in no way EVE 2005. And there's better ways to engage the customers than let a small minority pick their favorites and then reward those people (good or bad) with a tainted gift. The CSM will crush the candidates under lots of work and being continuously between a rock and a hard place, like a step child disliked both by the customers and the employees.
LordInvisible
Nova Ardour
#93 - 2016-01-11 08:43:41 UTC
CSM: bunch of ppl cherry picking the "issues" that _THEY_ seem interesting while getting rewards and fame IF CCP decides that those "issues" are more interesting than walking in stations, fozziesov and other "features" that "fix" things that are not even broken..

As in RL life, I find it pointless to even think about politics, since I do not like to feed already overfed ppl (with fame, attention etc..).
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#94 - 2016-01-11 11:56:00 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Lets see... A very small group of people, supposed to 'represent' a very large amount of players, elected through a process that many don't know about, which is easily monopolized, spreading flags of what 'they' feel Eve should be like, hindering CCP's attempts at progress in developing a game that entices large audiences, and doing so under the premise of what 'they' feel will make a 'better' Eve.

I'd rather abolish the CSM and rely on protests.


How is it easily monopolized?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#95 - 2016-01-11 12:12:46 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Lets see... A very small group of people, supposed to 'represent' a very large amount of players, elected through a process that many don't know about, which is easily monopolized, spreading flags of what 'they' feel Eve should be like, hindering CCP's attempts at progress in developing a game that entices large audiences, and doing so under the premise of what 'they' feel will make a 'better' Eve.

I'd rather abolish the CSM and rely on protests.


How is it easily monopolized?


Well, you see, if lots of people don't vote…
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#96 - 2016-01-11 12:13:05 UTC
It seems that people are angry that those who votes are those who also get represented the best. I'm not sure why you're angry about that, since all proposed alternatives I've seen are much, much worse.

If you want to reduce CFC influence on CSM, vote for non-CFC people. If you explicitly want hi-sec people, get some to run and mount a campaign. An STV system is good for maybe-possible-candidates, so if you get going with good campaigns and good candidates, you can actually do something about all this.

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I now feel CSM is pointless, without hope and we might as well vote for Xenuria after the year CCP has given us.

Best reason to vote for the blabbering fool I've seen so far. Not that it's a good reason, still.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#97 - 2016-01-11 16:00:44 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
King Aires wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jace Varus wrote:
Go to the beta map in-game, and turn to the average number of pilots in space in the last 30 minutes. There you go.

Just one problem — in fact, the exact same problem as with all those inane claims: it doesn't display players. The mythical majority is just that: a myth, at best born out of bad maths, at worst born out of sheer ignorance and wishful thinking.



CCP tells us there is 1.5 accounts per person on average. So we can take the population of High-Sec and halve it to come up with the representative average of players who are at least "High-Sec".

Therefore, there is still more high-sec than null. And the CSM is overwhelmingly weighted towards CFC bought trolls.


I have two accounts active at the moment. One of my characters rarely enters high sec. The other 5 almost never leave high sec.

I am certainly not a ******* "high sec player".

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Jenshae Chiroptera
#98 - 2016-01-11 18:33:08 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
... If you want to reduce CFC influence on CSM, vote ....
Check what the a "mango" is to the Chinese server and then look at Goons.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#99 - 2016-01-11 19:10:55 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
... If you want to reduce CFC influence on CSM, vote ....
Check what the a "mango" is to the Chinese server and then look at Goons.
If that is related to anything we're discussing here, you can link it and actually do some in-depth explaining. Else, I'm not really going to see how it's anything but a rambling outcry, just like your intent to vote for Xenuria as an act of revenge.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#100 - 2016-01-11 19:27:38 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
... If you want to reduce CFC influence on CSM, vote ....
Check what the a "mango" is to the Chinese server and then look at Goons.
If that is related to anything we're discussing here, you can link it and actually do some in-depth explaining. Else, I'm not really going to see how it's anything but a rambling outcry, just like your intent to vote for Xenuria as an act of revenge.
There, there, open wide choo choo train coming.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.