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"That" time of year again.

First post
Author
Jenshae Chiroptera
#281 - 2016-01-24 14:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Purely incidental encounter:
Quote:
[ 2016.01.22 17:49:51 ] Di > too bad soe ships don't have cool skins
[ 2016.01.22 17:50:16 ] Di > the only alternative is actually worse than the original imo
[ 2016.01.22 17:51:01 ] Da > default skin is awesome enough :)
[ 2016.01.22 17:51:48 ] Di > too awesome maybe?
[ 2016.01.22 17:53:16 ] Ta > which boat are we talking aout?
[ 2016.01.22 17:53:30 ] Da > nah, there's no such thing as too much awesome
[ 2016.01.22 17:53:50 ] Da > Astero Stratios Nestor colour scheme
[ 2016.01.22 17:53:53 ] Di > soe ships generally
[ 2016.01.22 17:54:53 ] Jenshae > OMG! Like that shade of lipstick on the Astero, like it is so tacky! Why don't we all put nail varnish on its thrusters and give it a make over!!!
[ 2016.01.22 17:55:20 ] Da > ah
[ 2016.01.22 17:55:25 ] Ar > /emote covers Jenshae in concealer
[ 2016.01.22 17:55:26 ] Da > it's that time of year
[ 2016.01.22 17:55:43 ] Jenshae > What time of year?
[ 2016.01.22 17:55:53 ] Mi > CCCCCCCCSSSSSSSSSMMMMMMMMMM
[ 2016.01.22 17:55:58 ] Da > lol
[ 2016.01.22 17:56:04 ] Di > getting love sick time
[ 2016.01.22 17:56:10 ] Da > Mi couldn't have put it better myself
[ 2016.01.22 17:56:15 ] Ta > I like that Astero
[ 2016.01.22 17:56:16 ] Jenshae > Oh that? This has become my manufacturing toon.
[ 2016.01.22 17:56:43 ] Da > For what it's worth, I don't think I'm going to bother this time around
[ 2016.01.22 17:57:36 ] Jenshae > I am voting for Xenuria. They are the candidate that *CCP* deserves after destroyers ruining the frigate meta and SOV being shallow and shyte.
[ 2016.01.22 17:57:38 ] Ta > what time of year is it?
[ 2016.01.22 17:57:53 ] Di > I would go with a Stratios
[ 2016.01.22 17:58:01 ] Ta > and is my Incursus big enough to do it?
[ 2016.01.22 17:58:36 ] Jenshae > What can you fly and what are you trying to do?
[ 2016.01.22 17:59:11 ] Da > Ta it's not an in-game event or anything, just politics
[ 2016.01.22 17:59:24 ] Da > game politics, but politics nonetheless
[ 2016.01.22 17:59:34 ] Di > I just want it, that's all
[ 2016.01.22 17:59:39 ] Ta > I was wondering what time of year it was somebody said they were sitting it out this time so i figured it was an event
[ 2016.01.22 18:00:18 ] Jenshae > CSM = players voted by players (the few who know there is a vote happening) to whisper in CCP's (the game developer) ears and stear them all over the map.
[ 2016.01.22 18:00:48 ] Ta > oh okay politices them no fun in that
[ 2016.01.22 18:01:08 ] Di > where can I do that vote?
[ 2016.01.22 18:01:31 ] Da > CCP will announce it when the time comes
[ 2016.01.22 18:01:31 ] Di > I want to tell them that the "rookie experience" sucks
[ 2016.01.22 18:02:42 ] Jenshae > Di the only good candidate I know that is running is Jin'taan if he gets elected, drop him a message to raise your *detailed* feedback and concerns to CCP.
[ 2016.01.22 18:03:18 ] Ta > How did you get bold?
[ 2016.01.22 18:03:40 ] Jenshae > Screen shots, a whole short bloody presentation is the sort of thing they need, not just "It sucks" because then CCP, says, "They didn't say why it sucks so we can't fix it. *Shrugs* and dismisses it"

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#282 - 2016-01-24 15:02:37 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Purely incidental encounter:

So one guy not knowing, and when being told explicitly saying he doesn't care — same as the guy who does know — proves… what?
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#283 - 2016-01-24 15:20:51 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
...And until you ....
No. Until you guys actually go out and talk to High Sec players and find out just how ignorant of CSM they are and return with anonymised chat logs, my central point to this thread will not be swept under the rug.
It's not sweeping it under a rug. It's saying "This does not stand up to scrutiny", a very different thing.
I'm also not going to go out and collect anecdotes. Two reasons: I'm not going to believe anecdotes are representative, or qualify as evidence, even if I collect them myself; and I'm not going to do your work for you.
If you think there is a large majority of players who do not vote, in hi-sec, there are three things you can do: You can inform them yourself; you can provide reasons and evidence for why and where we should inform them; you can get CCP to inform them. As long as the information you provide is correct, you should be fine on your own. But you're not just claiming (Without evidence and in spite of our qualified guesses) that there's a silent majority in hi-sec. You're also claiming a conspiracy to keep them silenced, and a desire to even the odds by silencing those whom you claim are doing the silencing.
All of this, as I said, without proof.
Quote:
Malcanis wrote:
... BUT BUT BUT CODE MAGIC!
... BUT BUT BUT people actually pay me to code security systems. Lol
(I'll give you an out though. Perhaps, I am just using a lot of pre-made tools well and exploiting management's ignorance. You are welcome to tell yourselves that.) Blink
I'm sure people pay you lots of money for your incredible expertise in the matter of discerning individual persons accessing a service through a number of accounts, and that you can easily code this and send it to CCP so you can get the authoritative and p<0.001 data that will show how players, not just characters, are distributed.
My money are on option "It will not show a hi-sec majority of players", and until you tell us that your awesome knowledge and coding power has resulted in an elaborate setup, sent to CCP and shown to us here, I'll continue to assume that you think so, too.

Quote:
Purely incidental encounter:
Again, anecdotes doesn't and cannot prove any point in either direction. I could go out and find 10 testimonials of hi-sec players who knew about CSM and either did or didn't vote because of well-informed decisions, and it wouldn't prove or disprove any point anywhere, because it's anecdotal.
But even then, your own anecdote shows that 3/5 know about the CSM and one of those 2 who did not know immediately asked "where can I vote?"
So what you ought to ask for, really, is that CCP uses (As they have before) their splash page and dev.blogs and so on to announce the elections ... as they've done already or, I'm sure, they intend to do.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#284 - 2016-01-24 16:01:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
So one guy not knowing, ...
2/4 + lurkers.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#285 - 2016-01-24 16:10:44 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Tippia wrote:
So one guy not knowing, ...
2/4 + lurkers.
Addendum to my last post:
Apart from this being, at best, an anecdote, how am I to be sure that it's not something you made up entirely?
Last time you tried to pass something off as evidence for your cause, you knew you were lying since the "proof" you presented was nowhere close to being that, and it would be clear from even the most cursory look.

So I'm sorry I even considered your post an anecdote. We need to take a step back first: Why should I trust you, a known liar, to provide accurate anecdotes of your conversations? How am I able to confirm that the anecdote you posted even took place?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#286 - 2016-01-24 16:45:48 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
... how am I to be sure that it's not something you made up entirely? ...
Go and investigate instead of being one of those brats that runs around screaming, "Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!"

DO.

You won't trust anything that doesn't fit what you believe until you go and do; experience things first hand.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#287 - 2016-01-24 16:59:23 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
... how am I to be sure that it's not something you made up entirely? ...
Go and investigate instead of being one of those brats that runs around screaming, "Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!"
I only do that with you and Xenuria. You're free to guess why. Blink
But you say things here like you already did the investigation, and so I can save valuable time by simply asking for a copy of your evidence... except that you haven't given anything but unsubstantiated claims and clearcut lies so far.
That's why I ask for evidence each time. While my normal reaction to someone posting an anecdote might be mild curiosity, or asking for something with greater weight than anecdotes, for you I simply don't have that default level of trust to report anything accurately. You lied before, you knew it, and you shrugged it off and continued to make the same claim. Later, after being shown in what direction the evidence we do have points, you asked for new data with a whole new slew of claims.

Quote:
You won't trust anything that doesn't fit what you believe until you go and do; experience things first hand.
Incorrect. I'm perfectly willing to change my mind, if I am presented with evidence for it. Until that happens, I'm not putting much faith in the claims of someone who claims conspiracies and lies about the evidence. Especially not when that person then both gives anecdotes in lieu of evidence, and asks me to go out and find anecdotes myself. Not even if they're first-hand.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#288 - 2016-01-24 17:04:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Alphea Abbra wrote:
...You're free to guess why. Blink ....
You are butt-hurt and Jenn aSnides' trolling alt?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#289 - 2016-01-24 17:08:26 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
... how am I to be sure that it's not something you made up entirely? ...
Go and investigate instead of being one of those brats that runs around screaming, "Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!"

DO.

You won't trust anything that doesn't fit what you believe until you go and do; experience things first hand.


Have you considered that people respond to you with, "Liar liar pants on fire," because you've made a habit of presenting spurious claims based on data that is anecdotal at best, and, at worst, in opposition to those claims?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#290 - 2016-01-24 17:11:14 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
...You're free to guess why. Blink ....
You are butt-hurt and Jenn aSnides' trolling alt?
Neither, but decent deflect. It's almost as if you don't want to tell anyone what evidence you have, and rather just do what conspiracy theorists of all times have done: Claim unsubstantiated things, post links that doesn't really back it up, claim suppression and whenever anyone asks for evidence, say it's out there, just go look.

...

It's not trolling to ask for evidence for your rather extraordinary claims. It's not trolling to ask for evidence for your ordinary claims, when you've been shown to lie before. It's not trolling not to believe you on faith. It's due dilligence.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#291 - 2016-01-24 17:13:27 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Have you considered ...
*Gets this far, checks name and profile picture then shrugs and makes this post without reading further. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#292 - 2016-01-24 17:15:18 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
... I'm perfectly willing to change my mind, ....
I don't believe you. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#293 - 2016-01-24 17:21:53 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
... I'm perfectly willing to change my mind, ....
I don't believe you. Blink
Then the lucky thing is, you can test it. Provide evidence for your claims. If I can't show your evidence to be wrong or flawed in some way, and won't change my mind, you were right now to believe me.
All it takes is a little evidence.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#294 - 2016-01-24 17:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
2/4 + lurkers.
One who asked what it was. So one (1).
Trying to make it sound like more because that one character was hidden in a bunch of unrelated static does not suddenly make him more than one guy. There's one who asks “when”, which is not the same question as “what.” This out of a conversation between 6 people plus, as you point out, any number of lurkers.

You know, since your claim is that no-one knows about it, that's an awful low amount of people who asked about it and an awful lot of people who did not, because they already know and/or didn't care.

Quote:
Go and investigate instead of being one of those brats that runs around screaming
Why, when you provide such ample evidence to prove yourself wrong. More than 83% seem to know about the CSM, according to your own evidence. Your claim is that a majority does not. Your anecdotal evidence disproves your made-up statistic, much like how your previous attempt at providing evidence disproved your previous made-up statistic of how many votes were being controlled.

Every time you try to prove something, all you do is prove yourself wrong. And yet, you keep saying the same thing, willingly and intentionally. This is the reason people call you a liar: because you lie. You make stuff up. That's all you ever do.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#295 - 2016-01-24 17:40:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Tippia wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
2/4 + lurkers.
One who asked what it was. So one (1).
Trying to make it sound like more because that one character was hidden in a bunch of unrelated static does not suddenly make him more than one guy. There's one who asks “when”, which is not the same question as “what.” This out of a conversation between 6 people plus, as you point out, any number of lurkers. ...
You can see from how thing were spelt out that Di could pick up what the CSM was and want to vote. Knowing nothing, they thought the vote might be on Reddit for all they knew.
Ti thought the CSM was an event.

Again, talk to people. This chat log happened recently and without my deliberate efforts.
I have a new computer and I have my own experiences from running for CSM.

  • I won't be running around talking to people again this year. I have no motivation.
  • The chat logs from last year are gone.
  • Even if I had them, I wouldn't put in the wasted effort of digging through them for you.
So, take that as me having no proof and rejoice.

Why don't I make the effort to find more proof?
Your opinion of me is not worth trying to sway because I do not value it (but the pointless arguing in circles is a good distraction while, warp, warp, warping). Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#296 - 2016-01-24 17:50:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
You can see from how thing were spelt out that Di
…knew enough to not ask “what”, but “when”. That is all. Anything else is just you putting words in their mouth, and since you can't even get their names right with the text right in front of you, your attempts at reading and pulling some meaning out of it is very close to being 100% unreliable. Even if you count him, you still don't have your majority.

Your evidence disproves your claims, as always. Yet you keep lying.

Quote:
Again, talk to people.
Yes, please do so and come back with some actual, non-anecdotal evidence. Preferably something that doesn't immediately prove you wrong.

Quote:
Why don't I make the effort to find more proof?
Most likely because a) you can't, and b) because it always backfires spectacularly on you when you try. I'm sure you could invent some other reasons, but your history of lying makes anything you say highly suspect and more likely to be untrue than true.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#297 - 2016-01-24 17:56:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
Again, talk to people.
Yes, please do so ...
"No u"
We have devolved to this point. Lol

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#298 - 2016-01-24 18:05:21 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
Again, talk to people.
Yes, please do so ...
"No u"
We have devolved to this point. Lol
You mean that after Tippia presented the numbers we have, and how the most conservative assumption results in the best guess that hi-sec is a minority, and you have supplied no evidence whatsoever to bolster your claims, that you and Tippia are equally at fault?
One side, yours, made a lot of claims. Most of them are unsubstantiated thus far. The rest have been debunked.
I get why you want the rest of us to look for evidence for your claims (Because we're not stupid, so it might actually be evidence for it, and not anecdotes against it), but that is simply not how debates or burdens of proof works.
You made a series of claims. You're unable to back them up with any evidence. You ask us to provide evidence for you.

Can you see why that position was untenable?

But I'll accept
Quote:
So, take that as me having no proof and rejoice.
as your admission of defeat and guilt. Personally, I forgive you. Just don't do it next time.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#299 - 2016-01-24 18:10:40 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
"No u"
We have devolved to this point. Lol

No. We're simply asking you to provide something to actually support your stance — something that's been pretty much consistent throughout the entire thread.

What we've done is systematically prove you wrong on everything. You keep presenting “evidence” that proves you wrong. In face of this evidence, you keep saying the same thing, at which point we say that you're wrong. You then ask us to prove it, in some failed attempt at an onus probandi fallacy, except that we also don't need to prove you wrong because you've already done so.

You then try to blame your failure on us, when it was in large part you who did it to yourself. It's not a “no, you”; it's “so you keep saying; prove it”.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#300 - 2016-01-24 18:12:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Alphea wrote:

Lol -> u.
Lol
Tippia wrote:
No. We're simply asking you to provide something to ...
I decline, for now and all eternity.
My effort was last year.

I will be voting for Xenuria this year.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.