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Kronos: The Best Marauder?

Author
Altair Taurus
#41 - 2016-01-10 16:12:59 UTC
Maybe...blaster Kronos! Blink
Sun Ying
Sun Ltd.
#42 - 2016-01-10 18:47:25 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Sun Ying wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Kinda irritates me that everyone that flies the Paladin, always judges it's offensive capabilities based around Pulses using Scorch. I'll admit that when a Pally fitted with Pulses using Conflags that it's not to shabby, but it reduces the Paladin into a brawling ship which the Pally is not. If you want to kill something in a Marauder within 50km then the Kronos is your best bet as that ship is the best brawling Marauder. But the Paladin is a sniping Marauder in the purist sense and it shines the most when it's using the weapon system that takes full advantage of it's optimal range bonuses which is the Tachyons. And when using a Pally with Tachyons the misguided EM/therm limitations isn't an issue against 90% of the rats you face if you're running missions since the Pally projects near full dps instantly up to 120km away.

Although truefully I'm in the process of training for the Kronos atm since I've decided to give up on training Capitals and the Rail Kronos does intrigue me somewhat...


i understand , my marauder style is just get in the room aggro all and shoot all, i dont want to look at eve survival or care about trigger, i also dont want to have to MJD away snipe then MJD back, i just want to tank and kill all and for that the blaster kronos is just THE ship to have... rail kinda sucks, i tried it and the tracking is abysmal , if anything has a bit of angular velocity you just miss hence it's just good as a sniper platform. My ship is certainly overtanked at 177kEHP , but it makes it so you dont have to worry and thats the kind of play style i want.

And for that the kronos blaster is king.


Makes me want to try one out. What's the optimal+fallout range you're getting from your Kronos? Also what's the ammo type you're using and the dps?


optimal is short i' m almost never in it, it's like 20km or so, fallout is like 42.5km (from memory), i use antimatter L (you get better result with NULL L but that's t2 and it's really over the top)... anyway i hit at 40km for 950dps , and 70+km for 200dps (which is not good i know, but those are blasters)... you might say why not rail if most missions are around 40km... well rail tracking just suck, if anything get close you'll never hit it and since i just drop in, bastion, MTU and shoot away that dont work well....

i rarely use my light drone , i shoot approaching frigate with easier if have the time to lock them before they orbit, once they orbit you have to use light drones, anything bigger, cruiser,battleship you just melt.

all marauder are certainly good enough for l4, you can't go wrong with any of them, it depends on what gameplay style you look for, micro managing target painter, torpedoes cool down, etc was not fun. just lock and shoot that's fun, kronos blaster fit that idea.
vargur is probably great too but it's shield tanked and i already said why i prefer armor over shield , much better EHP buffer.
paladin is nice as well but it's scorch or nothing from my pov and i dont like having to have t2 ammo around , i just travel with t1 BPO and craft ammo on the spot where i travel that's how i like it.

i'm not interested in sniper fit.
Sun Ying
Sun Ltd.
#43 - 2016-01-10 18:53:32 UTC
i forgot to mention , for those mission where the npc are at 80km, just MJD right in the middle of everyone, bastion , mtu, and destroy everything :)... the first time you do that you might have a bit of fear , but once you realise they just can't break your tank, you dont care about trigger and such, you just blast away.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#44 - 2016-01-10 20:10:03 UTC
Anyone tried Polarized blasters?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#45 - 2016-01-11 00:31:30 UTC
They all do well and will out perform the others in their respective areas ( damage types), but if you want only one for ALL areas the golem is best, and yes I have flown them all.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#46 - 2016-01-11 00:36:43 UTC
aldhura wrote:
They all do well and will out perform the others in their respective areas ( damage types), but if you want only one for ALL areas the golem is best, and yes I have flown them all.

If you want only one, don't use a marauder.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#47 - 2016-01-11 00:38:41 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
aldhura wrote:
They all do well and will out perform the others in their respective areas ( damage types), but if you want only one for ALL areas the golem is best, and yes I have flown them all.

If you want only one, don't use a marauder.


Really, what do you propose works better for ALL missions ??
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#48 - 2016-01-11 00:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Did Angel Extra with bonus room in Kronos was curious will it die in fire with just an DCU II as tank it did not did it in less then 40 min.

I believe it can be done in 35min with my current setup but i did yak with my girlfriend at the end of mission losing focus left 2 web drones II thinking i don't need to kill em for bonus room to enter and i overshoot my targeting range in bonus room.

Those few things can shave few minutes and in my view Kronos is among very top ship choice for any mission.

Since it have large drone bay i think i will start using web / tp drone combo i found that beside small ones non bonus med drones don't pack any meaningful punch.

Bonus room starts at 27:20.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#49 - 2016-01-11 01:07:30 UTC
aldhura wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
aldhura wrote:
They all do well and will out perform the others in their respective areas ( damage types), but if you want only one for ALL areas the golem is best, and yes I have flown them all.

If you want only one, don't use a marauder.


Really, what do you propose works better for ALL missions ??

Mach or Barghest I guess. Higher dps, better mobility, excellent applications and projection and of course damage type selection. The mach can even be either armor or shield tanked. Very flexible platforms all around.

That said the Polarized weapons do really close the gap in a lot of cases and are definitely what I'd classify as fun. You'll still run into situations where the marauder you picked just isn't suited for the situation it finds itself in, unlike a Mach or Barghest.

Also I didn't say there's a ship that will work better in every single mission than any of the marauders, only that if I were to pick only one ship for missions, it wouldn't be a marauder.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#50 - 2016-01-11 01:52:43 UTC  |  Edited by: aldhura
Anize Oramara wrote:
aldhura wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
aldhura wrote:
They all do well and will out perform the others in their respective areas ( damage types), but if you want only one for ALL areas the golem is best, and yes I have flown them all.

If you want only one, don't use a marauder.


Really, what do you propose works better for ALL missions ??

Mach or Barghest I guess. Higher dps, better mobility, excellent applications and projection and of course damage type selection. The mach can even be either armor or shield tanked. Very flexible platforms all around.

That said the Polarized weapons do really close the gap in a lot of cases and are definitely what I'd classify as fun. You'll still run into situations where the marauder you picked just isn't suited for the situation it finds itself in, unlike a Mach or Barghest.

Also I didn't say there's a ship that will work better in every single mission than any of the marauders, only that if I were to pick only one ship for missions, it wouldn't be a marauder.


When some starts a sentence with " I guess.." it doesn't fill me with confidence.
Best you try them and then comment. Marauders are immune to EWAR, tank like beasts and free up slots because of the bastion to fit things like web's, TP, TC's, etc.
And basically in saying "if you get one ship, don't get a marauder", you are saying whatever your choice is it will fit any situation. I would really like to know which situation I would get myself in to, in which my Golem, is going find itself in a situation its not suited for.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#51 - 2016-01-11 03:56:39 UTC
If you're blitzing, Machariel or Barghest. If you're looking to clear everything - one of the Polarized Marauder variants or a Rattlesnake. For shoot and loot it doesn't really matter which Marauder you use - only that it is a Marauder.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#52 - 2016-01-11 07:32:18 UTC
aldhura wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:

Mach or Barghest I guess. Higher dps, better mobility, excellent applications and projection and of course damage type selection. The mach can even be either armor or shield tanked. Very flexible platforms all around.

That said the Polarized weapons do really close the gap in a lot of cases and are definitely what I'd classify as fun. You'll still run into situations where the marauder you picked just isn't suited for the situation it finds itself in, unlike a Mach or Barghest.

Also I didn't say there's a ship that will work better in every single mission than any of the marauders, only that if I were to pick only one ship for missions, it wouldn't be a marauder.


When some starts a sentence with " I guess.." it doesn't fill me with confidence.
Best you try them and then comment. Marauders are immune to EWAR, tank like beasts and free up slots because of the bastion to fit things like web's, TP, TC's, etc.

Looks at my sig... um sure, I'll get right on that...
Quote:

And basically in saying "if you get one ship, don't get a marauder", you are saying whatever your choice is it will fit any situation. I would really like to know which situation I would get myself in to, in which my Golem, is going find itself in a situation its not suited for.

Like I said previously, they're decent but underwhelming in the dps and mobility department. The DPS can be mostly resolved by running polarised however this really exasperates the mobility problem in all but the pulse paladins case since you can still relatively effectively snipe so mobility isn't as huge of an issue. Pulse paladin of course has the problem of damage type then. If you switch to longer range weapons on the other 3 you exasperate the dps issue. The Golem for example, even running Fury Cruise you're doing at most 160dps more than a Gila and less than both the Mach or Barghest and then you're going to have issues applying damage to certain targets.

There are areas where marauders excel and I preferred them over other ships around a year and half-ish ago? Right when the bastion changes came in. Ran them quite a lot in fact. But since then loot and salvage has dropped so low it's a ridiculous waste of time to do loot and salvage and pirate ships beat them in full clear in most missions.

The only reason why i say 'I guess' is that I haven't run the Vindicator yet. Now I don't know if it'll set any records for blitzing necessarily but considering it can out dps any other BS in the game by quite a large margin, and out dps any non polarized Marauder with rails it's most definitely an interesting project I might look into.

The way I see it if you have a low DPS ceiling, something all the marauders suffer from, there's not much you can do about it regardless of how good your application is. If you have a high dps ceiling then the potential is there, it just takes good piloting and good fitting to unlock that potential. Marauders bring something to the table that currently just isn't useful anymore.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#53 - 2016-01-11 15:00:25 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
aldhura wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:

Mach or Barghest I guess. Higher dps, better mobility, excellent applications and projection and of course damage type selection. The mach can even be either armor or shield tanked. Very flexible platforms all around.

That said the Polarized weapons do really close the gap in a lot of cases and are definitely what I'd classify as fun. You'll still run into situations where the marauder you picked just isn't suited for the situation it finds itself in, unlike a Mach or Barghest.

Also I didn't say there's a ship that will work better in every single mission than any of the marauders, only that if I were to pick only one ship for missions, it wouldn't be a marauder.


When some starts a sentence with " I guess.." it doesn't fill me with confidence.
Best you try them and then comment. Marauders are immune to EWAR, tank like beasts and free up slots because of the bastion to fit things like web's, TP, TC's, etc.

Looks at my sig... um sure, I'll get right on that...
Quote:

And basically in saying "if you get one ship, don't get a marauder", you are saying whatever your choice is it will fit any situation. I would really like to know which situation I would get myself in to, in which my Golem, is going find itself in a situation its not suited for.

Like I said previously, they're decent but underwhelming in the dps and mobility department. The DPS can be mostly resolved by running polarised however this really exasperates the mobility problem in all but the pulse paladins case since you can still relatively effectively snipe so mobility isn't as huge of an issue. Pulse paladin of course has the problem of damage type then. If you switch to longer range weapons on the other 3 you exasperate the dps issue. The Golem for example, even running Fury Cruise you're doing at most 160dps more than a Gila and less than both the Mach or Barghest and then you're going to have issues applying damage to certain targets.

There are areas where marauders excel and I preferred them over other ships around a year and half-ish ago? Right when the bastion changes came in. Ran them quite a lot in fact. But since then loot and salvage has dropped so low it's a ridiculous waste of time to do loot and salvage and pirate ships beat them in full clear in most missions.

The only reason why i say 'I guess' is that I haven't run the Vindicator yet. Now I don't know if it'll set any records for blitzing necessarily but considering it can out dps any other BS in the game by quite a large margin, and out dps any non polarized Marauder with rails it's most definitely an interesting project I might look into.

The way I see it if you have a low DPS ceiling, something all the marauders suffer from, there's not much you can do about it regardless of how good your application is. If you have a high dps ceiling then the potential is there, it just takes good piloting and good fitting to unlock that potential. Marauders bring something to the table that currently just isn't useful anymore.


I personally don't understand why people use cruise or torps on a Golem when RHML seems the best to me.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#54 - 2016-01-11 15:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Estella Osoka wrote:
I personally don't understand why people use cruise or torps on a Golem when RHML seems the best to me.

Because you're using a Golem to clear/salvage and not to blitz, which is what RHMLs are geared towards. When you factor in reload time, RHMLs put out less average DPS than either cruise missiles or torpedoes.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Altair Taurus
#55 - 2016-01-11 15:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
Anize Oramara wrote:
[quote=aldhura]
The only reason why i say 'I guess' is that I haven't run the Vindicator yet. Now I don't know if it'll set any records for blitzing necessarily but considering it can out dps any other BS in the game by quite a large margin, and out dps any non polarized Marauder with rails it's most definitely an interesting project I might look into.


Yeah! Try rail Vindi against Serpentis! That monster deals 1200 DPS (kin/therm) at 60 km. That's cool!
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#56 - 2016-01-11 15:22:14 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
I personally don't understand why people use cruise or torps on a Golem when RHML seems the best to me.

The long reloads is a really big gut punch for sustained dps (even if the application is a lot better) and means that realistically RHML using fury ammo and Cruise using Faction ammo has near identical sustained dps and similar application. End of the day it's a case of 6 of one and half dozen of the other.

On a side note, not all effective launchers are created equal. A typhoon for example, with it's rof bonus rather than damage bonus would be slightly worse off using RHML than a damage bonussed hull would be. It's a good rule of thumb on weather or not to use Cruise vs RHML. Range is of course also a consideration on non bonussed hulls. This is why the Barghest makes such a great RHML platform.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#57 - 2016-01-11 15:37:16 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
On a side note, not all effective launchers are created equal. A typhoon for example, with it's rof bonus rather than damage bonus would be slightly worse off using RHML than a damage bonussed hull would be. It's a good rule of thumb on weather or not to use Cruise vs RHML. Range is of course also a consideration on non bonussed hulls. This is why the Barghest makes such a great RHML platform.

What I really abhor about the Barghest is the physical size. You are continually getting hung up on every single acceleration gate and small object that populates most missions. This is a problem for all battleships, really - but is exacerbated in the Barghest. I've lobbied (unsuccessfully) to have the size reduced from a carrier to the size of the rattlesnake. The only flip-side of having to constantly maneuver is that it gives you ample time to reload your RHMLs.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#58 - 2016-01-11 15:38:47 UTC
It is a bit of a moon sized pancake I'll give it that. I got stuck on another Barghest on the undock once. Now that was a sight to see.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Yolli Sly
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2016-01-11 16:37:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Yolli Sly
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
I personally don't understand why people use cruise or torps on a Golem when RHML seems the best to me.

Because you're using a Golem to clear/salvage and not to blitz, which is what RHMLs are geared towards. When you factor in reload time, RHMLs put out less average DPS than either cruise missiles or torpedoes.


It is totally wrong, when it comes to lvl 4 missions. It is true (may be yes, may be not) if we speak about battleships only. But frigates and cruiser are common on lvl 4.

Let see some popular missions:

Angel Extravaganza:
(Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers) – 48
Battleships – 21 or 30,4%

Worlds Collide:
(Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers) – 68 (oops)
Battleships – 31 or 31%

Damsel in Distress:
(Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers) – 21
Battleships – 14 or 40%

Blockade:
(Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers) – 27
Battleships – 22 or 46%

Recon (1, 2):
(Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers) – 22
Battleships – 12 or 35,3%

Dread Pirate Scatlet:
(Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers) – 16
Battleships – 20 or 55,5%

As we can see only if Dread Pirate Scatlet, worth to use Cruise. Not to mention that we can split RHML launchers 3x2 (in Barghest case) and to work on three targets at once. With some micromanagement – start second launcher when the former is half empty, we will have at least one a shooting all the time.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#60 - 2016-01-11 17:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Yolli Sly wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
I personally don't understand why people use cruise or torps on a Golem when RHML seems the best to me.

Because you're using a Golem to clear/salvage and not to blitz, which is what RHMLs are geared towards. When you factor in reload time, RHMLs put out less average DPS than either cruise missiles or torpedoes.


It is totally wrong, when it comes to lvl 4 missions. It is true (may be yes, may be not) if we speak about battleships only. But frigates and cruiser are common on lvl 4.

Let see some popular missions:

Angel Extravaganza:
(Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers) – 48
Battleships – 21 or 30,4%

Worlds Collide:
(Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers) – 68 (oops)
Battleships – 31 or 31%

Damsel in Distress:
(Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers) – 21
Battleships – 14 or 40%

Blockade:
(Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers) – 27
Battleships – 22 or 46%

Recon (1, 2):
(Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers) – 22
Battleships – 12 or 35,3%

Dread Pirate Scatlet:
(Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers) – 16
Battleships – 20 or 55,5%

As we can see only if Dread Pirate Scatlet, worth to use Cruise. Not to mention that we can split RHML launchers 3x2 (in Barghest case) and to work on three targets at once. With some micromanagement – start second launcher when the former is half empty, we will have at least one a shooting all the time.

Misleading stats are misleading. The # of BS mean absolutely nothing. It's the % of total EHP that those BS make up that's a far more important statistic AND the % that is elite frigs and cruisers.

Also the whole splitting launchers it's also actually making it worse since you're giving up the one advantage RHML have, witch is burst. This means you're having to chew through even more EHP as regen and repair is allowed to add more EHP to the total you need to kill for the mission.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3