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[proposal] Introduction of taxes on manufacturing slots based on security status (like poco's)
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Kim Lesley Hartman
Hartman Ornamental Confectionery and Pies
#1 - 2011-12-14 12:12:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kim Lesley Hartman
An often heard complaint is that the risk/reward of manufacturing in low/null/wormholes compared to hi-sec is off.

I'm not going type a wall of text on the issue going into that specific subject as it's been debated at length in many threads already.

It just occurred to me after the introduction of POCO's that it could probably be easily fixed by taxing manufacturing slots in a similar way.

Slam 17% tax based on an item value (of what ever you produce) controlled by CCP on hi-sec station manufacturing slots and make this tax lower as security status slides down.

For example;

Hisec station; 17%
Lowsec station; 10%
NPC Nullsec; 5%
Sov Nullsec; % controlled by station owner.

Doing something like this you would actually make it possible for industrialists in more lawless space to produce cheaper making it worthwhile to do so.
Fade Toblack
Per.ly
The 20 Minuters
#2 - 2011-12-14 12:38:51 UTC
Base costs everywhere should also vary by the demand for slots, so that manufacturing slots in busy hi-sec areas should cost a lot more than slots in quiet NPC null stations. Again PC owners of relevant structures should be able to set their own pricing - at varying rates according to standing (like with POCOs.)
Velicitia
XS Tech
#3 - 2011-12-14 14:08:58 UTC
OK, so you throw a [S|M|L]SAA into a pos to skip the tax?

if yes, then CCP FIX THE GODDAMN POS FIRST

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Kim Lesley Hartman
Hartman Ornamental Confectionery and Pies
#4 - 2011-12-14 16:10:35 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
OK, so you throw a [S|M|L]SAA into a pos to skip the tax?

if yes, then CCP FIX THE GODDAMN POS FIRST


Yes a POS being owned by you, obviously wouldn't get taxed. But that's ok as POS'es carry risk, they can be destroyed.

My gripe, and that of many other non hi-security industrialists, is that despite the extra risk and effort we put in we gain no competitive advantage really.

Currently producing in lowsec or nullsec tends to cost more then simply building in hi-sec and shipping finished product. Introducing a tax/supply demand (for slots) mechanism would largely correct this.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-12-15 02:31:55 UTC
Kim Lesley Hartman wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
OK, so you throw a [S|M|L]SAA into a pos to skip the tax?

if yes, then CCP FIX THE GODDAMN POS FIRST


Yes a POS being owned by you, obviously wouldn't get taxed. But that's ok as POS'es carry risk, they can be destroyed.

My gripe, and that of many other non hi-security industrialists, is that despite the extra risk and effort we put in we gain no competitive advantage really.

Currently producing in lowsec or nullsec tends to cost more then simply building in hi-sec and shipping finished product. Introducing a tax/supply demand (for slots) mechanism would largely correct this.



Low sec, 0.0 and WH do have a distinct advantage in that they have access to all mineral types for their manufacturing whereas hi sec dwellers dont (They have to buy it off the market) but this is offset by the logistical cost of moving finished product to market hubs - talking about small scale Industrialist here, not bulk mass producing industrialist that buy their Minerals off the markets.

One thing to think about is standings - how would that come into play with tax rate?

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-12-15 03:33:24 UTC
Kim Lesley Hartman wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
OK, so you throw a [S|M|L]SAA into a pos to skip the tax?

if yes, then CCP FIX THE GODDAMN POS FIRST


Yes a POS being owned by you, obviously wouldn't get taxed. But that's ok as POS'es carry risk, they can be destroyed.


POSes in highsec are currently invulnerable, but broken wardec mechanics are another topic.

I like the idea of manufacturing slots prices fluctuating based on demand, like office costs.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#7 - 2011-12-15 09:20:51 UTC
Umadbro... NO

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Eperor
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#8 - 2011-12-15 11:27:44 UTC
nice idea i to support this.
Kim Lesley Hartman
Hartman Ornamental Confectionery and Pies
#9 - 2011-12-15 16:53:06 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Kim Lesley Hartman wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
OK, so you throw a [S|M|L]SAA into a pos to skip the tax?

if yes, then CCP FIX THE GODDAMN POS FIRST


Yes a POS being owned by you, obviously wouldn't get taxed. But that's ok as POS'es carry risk, they can be destroyed.


POSes in highsec are currently invulnerable, but broken wardec mechanics are another topic.

I like the idea of manufacturing slots prices fluctuating based on demand, like office costs.



Very much aware of that issue. I'm operating under the assumption CCP will actually redo the wardec system at some point. I'm an optimist ;-)

Montevius Williams wrote:

Low sec, 0.0 and WH do have a distinct advantage in that they have access to all mineral types for their manufacturing whereas hi sec dwellers dont (They have to buy it off the market) but this is offset by the logistical cost of moving finished product to market hubs - talking about small scale Industrialist here, not bulk mass producing industrialist that buy their Minerals off the markets.

One thing to think about is standings - how would that come into play with tax rate?


On the minerals issue, not really true almost all trit used in null and lowsec is actually shipped in from hi-sec. Nobody mines veld in low/null sec ;-)
Ai Tsuwa
WeebFleet
Tsundere Triad
#10 - 2012-03-02 14:54:45 UTC
+1 Let's put that risk vs reward concept into more things then just Pew.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-03-02 15:13:05 UTC
While I get the motivation...you are aware that your going to make a severe change to the market right?

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Kim Lesley Hartman
Hartman Ornamental Confectionery and Pies
#12 - 2012-03-02 19:33:04 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
While I get the motivation...you are aware that your going to make a severe change to the market right?


Prices might rise a little to offset higher production costs, but since the aim is to provide a reward for low/null indy's for their increased risk (in the form of a larger profit margin compared to hisec indy's) that's not bad imho.

So yes I'm aware.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-03-02 20:39:37 UTC
Kim Lesley Hartman wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
While I get the motivation...you are aware that your going to make a severe change to the market right?


Prices might rise a little to offset higher production costs, but since the aim is to provide a reward for low/null indy's for their increased risk (in the form of a larger profit margin compared to hisec indy's) that's not bad imho.

So yes I'm aware.


A little no...alot...yes.

Dont underestimate the market....even a slight pebble causes huge ripples of isk.

This idea is all good and fine but in the end its likely gonna cause more harm than good.

But I'm not gonna make a judgement call on this just yet...think ill sit back and observe for a bit. Cool

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Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#14 - 2012-03-02 22:27:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolodymyr
Velicitia wrote:
OK, so you throw a [S|M|L]SAA into a pos to skip the tax?

if yes, then CCP FIX THE GODDAMN POS FIRST

Actually yeah. After going through a few wardecks the only people who actually fight back are people with stuff to lose in space. This would actually add risk vs reward to highsec. A corp would have the choice of...

A. working out of stations only knowing that if anything bad happens all their valuables can be safely docked.

B. Have a more efficient and cheaper POS out in space that can get shot at and needs defending.

... well assuming CCP reworks wardeck mechanics, and a POS fix would be nice too.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-03-02 23:54:13 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
OK, so you throw a [S|M|L]SAA into a pos to skip the tax?

if yes, then CCP FIX THE GODDAMN POS FIRST


POSs are player-owned, why should they have taxes?

I support this topic, and in fact have actually brought it up before. There are generally zero research/manufacturing slots available of all types in my whole region, including lowsec. Given how many total slots there are, I can only assume this is because there are players putting various blueprints into the slots for months at a time when they're not getting any significant bonuses out of doing so, simply because they aren't paying anything either. That would explain why there are blueprints with, say 200+ material efficiency when its tritanium cost is the same at 25 material efficiency or less.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."