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rattlesnake lvl 4s
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Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#1 - 2016-01-03 01:06:50 UTC
Ok i am not really active at the moment and i would like to pick it up a bit starting with making some isk doing lvl 4s and then decide what i am going to do. i know there have been a lot of changes on drones, missles, multiple ships. my skills are more then decent (i think) but i would like a good fit for say 1 to 2 bil isk.

never really flown missle ships so i need some help, hope to find it here, i will post eveboard below think it will be helpfull

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ellendras_Silver

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#2 - 2016-01-03 01:26:10 UTC
I think you want this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=454677&find=unread

if you still want the rattlesnake well then fits are pretty generic, mostly (if not all) bcu/dda in the lows. shield tank, prop mod, omnis in the mids. launchers + drone link augmentor in the highs. rigs to taste, I think mine has missile application rigs.

most fits should probably be under a bil, as RS hull prices are rather low, and that puts a lot of room for some shiny mods.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#3 - 2016-01-03 19:44:25 UTC
I have a Barghest fit in the guide though I might look at tuning it a bit. It is very close to the Machariel in terms of performance, maybe ever so slightly slower, for most of the blitzing missions specifically so if you're interested in a missile boat then it is definitely a viable alternative.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2016-01-04 00:25:37 UTC
Rattler has exceptional paper DPS (especially brawling versions with torp/gecko) but damage application can be an issue. MJD cruise/sentry rattlers can work but to be honest you only complete slightly quicker than a sentry Dominix for a lot more work. Fitting can also be very tight if you are trying to fit a full rack of T2 cruise launchers.
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#5 - 2016-01-04 20:29:46 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Rattler has exceptional paper DPS (especially brawling versions with torp/gecko) but damage application can be an issue. MJD cruise/sentry rattlers can work but to be honest you only complete slightly quicker than a sentry Dominix for a lot more work. Fitting can also be very tight if you are trying to fit a full rack of T2 cruise launchers.



Very much depends on the mission. If you're not blitzing but going for full room clear in a mission with lots of rats, especially lots of bc and bs rats, then the tank and dps of a rattlesnake will make it a lot easier and faster than the domininx.. It isn't "a lot more work", it's just learning to volley count instead of using turrets.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#6 - 2016-01-06 05:10:11 UTC
Haven't flown an RS since they changed reprocessing, but have flown it since they changed the ship itself. Its great. The damage output is good and you can split the DPS in a nicely. That's really important in missions IMHO. Its worlds better than a Dominix or Navy Domi. Its just behind the Mach in terms of killing **** and probably equal to a fleet typhoon, but easier to fly. It does require a **** ton of SP to fly effectively, not as much as a TFI but more than a Mach.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7 - 2016-01-06 20:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
I still really prefer single weapon platforms. I find that you give up too much in terms of flexibility trying to satisfy damage application for two unique weapon systems. Other than blitzing and Burners, Marauders are still king in terms of pure ISK/hour earning potential.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#8 - 2016-01-07 04:43:06 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I still really prefer single weapon platforms. I find that you give up too much in terms of flexibility trying to satisfy damage application for two unique weapon systems. Other than blitzing and Burners, Marauders are still king in terms of pure ISK/hour earning potential.


Sounds like it's hard to min/max on paper to me. An excellent strategy is to one shot the frigs and destroyers with your sentries while wearing down BC's and BS's with the missiles. If you get elite frigs or spider drones or just close orbiters then switch it up to light drones on the frigs and sentries on the big stuff. Then you can focus fire and use the big DPS to kill the battleships.

I'll post a fit here when I'm back on my main.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#9 - 2016-01-07 23:08:34 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Sounds like it's hard to min/max on paper to me. An excellent strategy is to one shot the frigs and destroyers with your sentries while wearing down BC's and BS's with the missiles. If you get elite frigs or spider drones or just close orbiters then switch it up to light drones on the frigs and sentries on the big stuff. Then you can focus fire and use the big DPS to kill the battleships.

I'll post a fit here when I'm back on my main.

Very much so. On paper you should be looking at 1300-1400 DPS, which sounds great until you consider that this is applying optimal missile and drone damage - which never happens. You also have to factor in drone damage application and what you lose due to tracking, falloff as well as type-specific damage.

At a bare minimum you need a pair of T2 rigors, a T1 flare and a target painter to get perfect damage application against battlecruisers and battleships with T2 Fury ammunition. And you need a minimum of two omnidirectional tracking units scripted for either range or tracking speed (tracking for Wardens, range for everything else).

With six damage modules that leaves zero rigs or slots for improving performance and 4 slots for manueverability and shield tank (not a lot). Anything you start to claw back at this point lessens damage application.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#10 - 2016-01-07 23:26:26 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Sounds like it's hard to min/max on paper to me. An excellent strategy is to one shot the frigs and destroyers with your sentries while wearing down BC's and BS's with the missiles. If you get elite frigs or spider drones or just close orbiters then switch it up to light drones on the frigs and sentries on the big stuff. Then you can focus fire and use the big DPS to kill the battleships.

I'll post a fit here when I'm back on my main.

Very much so. On paper you should be looking at 1300-1400 DPS, which sounds great until you consider that this is applying optimal missile and drone damage - which never happens. You also have to factor in drone damage application and what you lose due to tracking, falloff as well as type-specific damage.

At a bare minimum you need a pair of T2 rigors, a T1 flare and a target painter to get perfect damage application against battlecruisers and battleships with T2 Fury ammunition. And you need a minimum of two omnidirectional tracking units scripted for either range or tracking speed (tracking for Wardens, range for everything else).

With six damage modules that leaves zero rigs or slots for improving performance and 4 slots for manueverability and shield tank (not a lot). Anything you start to claw back at this point lessens damage application.


[Rattlesnake, RS Damsel]

Internal Force Field Array I
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pith B-Type Thermal Dissipation Field
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Dread Guristas Stasis Webifier
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Garde II x2
Hobgoblin II x5

1.5 bil and it kills everything but Angells as quickly as a Machariel.

Having any more rigors and flares wont lessen the number of volleys you need to kill anything, because you already have precisions, a web, and a painter for frigs. Bc's take 1 volley from the missiles and one volley from the sentries. More reduction wont lower the number of volleys needed. Same with battleships.
Paired with a decent noctis pilot (be it the same toon or another one on the same account) this will give any Golem a run for its money. Guristas are about the only thing that will give it trouble from the excessive ECM. Its still at 1148 DPS in frig killing mode. you can literally split the DPS and kill 2 frigs at a time.

PS the EM rig is simply for Sanshas or BRs. I just swap the hardeners for specific missions. Sebo for Serpentis etc.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#11 - 2016-01-07 23:41:01 UTC
Where's your propulsion module?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#12 - 2016-01-07 23:55:07 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Where's your propulsion module?


What Mercenary Mission requires one?

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#13 - 2016-01-08 00:36:29 UTC
A pirate Web? An Internal Force Field Array I? So much unnecessary blue and green, over a bill in lootfittings? No guidance comps? Only Gardes? No Hyperspasial Velocity Rigs?

That's a horrible fit. Not to mention the Machariel puts out well over 300 dps more and goes over 1500m/s (1603m/s on my fit) and that's not even with Hail (1529dps with Berserker IIs and Hail for Angel Pirate Invasion)

Now THIS is how I'd fit a Rattler

[Rattlesnake, RS Damsel]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Shadow Serpentis 500MN Microwarpdrive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]

Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II

Garde II x2
Hobgoblin II x5
Berserker II x2
Warden II x2

Near enough 200 dps more (about the same with reloads) and has the option to switch out to precision or faction ammo for frigates. Also comes with faster warp and a MWD. WOuld make a decent blitz boat if it wasn't for the drones and the horrible align time and OMG this thing only goes 873 m/s...

ew.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#14 - 2016-01-08 01:39:03 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
A pirate Web? An Internal Force Field Array I? So much unnecessary blue and green, over a bill in lootfittings? No guidance comps? Only Gardes? No Hyperspasial Velocity Rigs?

That's a horrible fit. Not to mention the Machariel puts out well over 300 dps more and goes over 1500m/s (1603m/s on my fit) and that's not even with Hail (1529dps with Berserker IIs and Hail for Angel Pirate Invasion)

Now THIS is how I'd fit a Rattler

[Rattlesnake, RS Damsel]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Shadow Serpentis 500MN Microwarpdrive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]

Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II

Garde II x2
Hobgoblin II x5
Berserker II x2
Warden II x2

Near enough 200 dps more (about the same with reloads) and has the option to switch out to precision or faction ammo for frigates. Also comes with faster warp and a MWD. WOuld make a decent blitz boat if it wasn't for the drones and the horrible align time and OMG this thing only goes 873 m/s...

ew.


They asked for a RS build >2 bil. Yours is nice but wont beat Damsel in distress (obviously what this is fit for) faster than the fit I listed.

Also, complaining about green mods on a green ship is ridiculous.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#15 - 2016-01-08 06:29:48 UTC
They only asked for a 2 bill > fit out of ignorance, no reason to exasperate the problem. Actually I do think my fit should compete or even surpass yours quite easily due to the superior application of the damage though if using it for damsel specifically then I'd probably swap out prop mod for a cap booster and use Inferno. In fact I'd probably go in with Faction inferno loaded to blap the frigs, using the Gardes to focus on the larger ships.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#16 - 2016-01-08 21:02:42 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
They only asked for a 2 bill > fit out of ignorance, no reason to exasperate the problem. Actually I do think my fit should compete or even surpass yours quite easily due to the superior application of the damage though if using it for damsel specifically then I'd probably swap out prop mod for a cap booster and use Inferno. In fact I'd probably go in with Faction inferno loaded to blap the frigs, using the Gardes to focus on the larger ships.


I did load the wrong ammo when playing with the fit.

Out of ignorance, LOL. Have fun being elite. If I had half a brain I would have said do it exactly like the mission blitzing google doc says. My bad for not blitzing.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#17 - 2016-01-14 00:30:06 UTC
Honestly, Rattlesnakes are overhyped. The DPS looks great on paper, but application is abysmal. At the end of the day you're going to average around the same DPS as just about everything else: 1100-1200 DPS.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#18 - 2016-01-14 09:31:35 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Honestly, Rattlesnakes are overhyped. The DPS looks great on paper, but application is abysmal. At the end of the day you're going to average around the same DPS as just about everything else: 1100-1200 DPS.



DPS application is not abysmal at all.

Drones with two otl's apply well. Long range drones drop your dps, but still better than an ac mach does at comparable range.

Cruise missiles with a precision scripted mgc and two rigs one shot bc's and apply full damage to bs's.

Split weapons can be a bit fiddly to manage when focussing on different npc's, but once you get proficient it's just not a problem. It may be a problem when you're trying to manage 3 of them, but it's a different problem.

My RS does 1556 paper dps, and applies most of that out to 106 km for drones and 111km for missiles. While tanking like an absolute champ.
Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
#19 - 2016-01-14 10:06:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Leila Meurtrier
The Bigpuns wrote:

My RS does 1556 paper dps, and applies most of that out to 106 km for drones and 111km for missiles. While tanking like an absolute champ.

While Machariel applies ~1050 dps instantly at 70km with good application with guns alone, still capable of dropping some drones into the fray and utilizing 5.22 AU warp speed before implants. Not to mention that tank on rattle is purely excessive for lvl4 missions.
Sure, Rattlesnake got it's powers, but if you look closely at stats, It's just an Armageddon damage wise, with it's missiles being locked to kinetic/thermal. Yes, it's got tank, sure, but then again, what's the use of it in lvl4s? Laughing at NPC attempts to break one?

p.s. Woops, not an armageddon. 6 effective launchers, not 5.
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#20 - 2016-01-14 10:22:03 UTC
Leila Meurtrier wrote:
The Bigpuns wrote:

My RS does 1556 paper dps, and applies most of that out to 106 km for drones and 111km for missiles. While tanking like an absolute champ.

While Machariel applies ~1050 dps instantly at 70km with good application with guns alone, still capable of dropping some drones into the fray and utilizing 5.22 AU warp speed before implants. Not to mention that tank on rattle is purely excessive for lvl4 missions.
Sure, Rattlesnake got it's powers, but if you look closely at stats, It's just an Armageddon damage wise, with it's missiles being locked to kinetic/thermal. Yes, it's got tank, sure, but then again, what's the use of it in lvl4s? Laughing at NPC attempts to break one?



Not quite.

More slots than armageddon and less need for tank modules than armageddon = more slots for dps and application than armageddon. Plus, geddon high slot weapons have no hull bonus, so you at best have 7 effective weapons opposed to the rs 7.5, but split types so they can't share modules, and then no room for a dla. And kinetic/thermal gives you primary damage types for most rats, and secondary for angels, blood and sansha. Problem there? Nope.

Tell me again that rs is no better than a geddon?

Don't even know why you tried that one.

And yes, i know that maths has changed a lot since my day, but the machs 1050 dps at 70 km (we had this argument before - you AREN'T doing 1050 dps at 70km, but for arguments sake I'll let it pass) plus a bit for drones is still < 1550 dps at 106 km (which isn't reduced for range, just delayed a bit, which only really impacts the first bit of dps you do in a pocket).

Don't get me wrong, I still think the mach is a better overall mission runner than the rs. But please read the posts before you contest them. I was just pointing out that the application is NOT abysmal on a rs.
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