Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is getting old now. I mean c'mon, how long will you keep Minnie HACs below sea level of usefulness is beyond me. In most cases now, pilots just flat out give up on using Minnie HACs in favor of the either the Deimos/Sacrilege/Ishtar for brawling and Ishtar/Zealot/Eagle/Cerberus for sniping.

Is that a coincidence? I don't think so. Why? Well for one they don't have wasted utility highs like the Minnie HACs do. So for starters I purpose that you get rid of the wasted utility high-slot on the Minnie HACs and give them an additional mid-slot.

Move one of the vagabonds low to a mid. Done.

Muninn needs about 20% more grid at least and the utility high moved to a mid.

What he or anyone else knows or does not know is not important. What is important is for us to understand A. why YOU think they need to be changed and B. what YOU think that change should be.

All those other posts are irrelevant to the discussion here since you have not bothered to provide links to them. And no it is not mine or anyone else's job to go and find the links it is your job as the one who started this post to provide us with the links, or a synopsis of the information they contain.

Setting that aside and moving back to the question at hand since the HAC's as a group have had their balance pass the obvious answer, even though you do not want to hear it, is that these ships are in the place that CCP wants them to be. If their capabilities do not fit your needs there are many other ships in the game fly one of those.

The Muninn is just awful. Like pre-buff Deimos awful. You can't fit anything to it, it has a rubbish tank and it has wet noodle DPS.

You're unironically better off in a rupture, it's basically the same and if you die people won't laugh at you for flying a Muninn.

Wait, I've got something for this.

http://i.imgur.com/u0Zbv1q.png

The complaint with that is that weapons should be designed to fit on the ships they are intended to be used. Medium sized ships shouldn't need bonuses to fit medium sized guns, they should just have stats that allow medium sized ships to fit them.

It seems like CCP have over the last several years resorted to gimping ships on fitting as a blunt instrument way of "balancing" them. If you can't actually put a reasonable combination of modules on a ship it's impossible for it to be overpowered even if it turns out that its bonuses or base stats are too powerful.

And it's crap. I can find a use for a ship with bad bonuses and adequate fitting, I can't do anything with a ship that I can't even put guns or a full tank on even it it has amazing bonuses.

Also Zealots are really godawful too.

While this approach may make Hybrids best fit on Gal and Cal hulls, Lasers on Amarr and Projectiles on Minnie hulls. This is ultimately a poor balance approach. "blank" ships like the Gnosis should be the metric for determining if weapon systems are balanced.

If a cruiser sized Gnosis with average to average-good stats all round was created and release for balancing purposes on Sisi, one should expect it to be seen with all potential weapon types. Currently the very last thing you would EVER see someone fit it with would be Arties. Followed very sadly by Beams, Heavies, hams, Pulse, Autos, Rails, Blasters, and probably most commonly Rapid lights.

Why?

Arties require a horrendous amount of grid, and don't provide dps, alpha, or range that seems to compensate for it in the eyes of players. The problem is not with the Muninn, it is a great artillery ship with great artillery bonus's. Arties are just bad until you get to ships with LOLWUT grid and amazing arty bonus's like canes and fleet canes.

Fit a 650 arty stabber, then fit a 200 rail stabber. Cry. because the 200 rail stabber gets better stats, better t2 ammo, and only misses out on the cap that the rails use.

His point is that you start up a topic calling for change, yet fail to incorporate any direction from the start in what needs to be done. All you effectively did was "Mmmkay.... Minmatar HAC is bad, 'kay? Now /discuss".

Personally I'd love to see the Muninn to gain a few small adjustments that allow it to be fairly competitive without making it oppressive. How this can be done I am not 100% certain, as I am just one pilot of many. But I'd love to see one low-slot be swapped to a midslot. Keep the utility high, they are actually useful. As a brawler myself, I'd love to see some love to auto-cannons in terms of range on the ship, but I am not sure how strong it'd make artillery fits. Perhaps change the optimal range bonus to a 15% fall off bonus per level?

Before I start on some specific answers it seems I have not made myself and my thoughts clear to the rest of you, apologies for that. I simply do not care what happens to the minnie HAC's since I never have and never will fly them, not because they were or are bad, simply because as a drones pilot they do not offer what I want.



I am not denying any thing. The TRUTH is in front of us all you have to do is look and you will see it. As a class the HAC's got their balance pass and since then the Ishtar has been adjusted on what 3 separate occasions and still the minnie ships have not been touched. From this evidence there are only 4 conclusion that can be drawn.
1. CCP believes these ships fit nicely into the niche they created for them so no adjustments are needed.
2. They are to busy with other more pressing issues to have the time for these ships, personally I doubt that since they have made adjustments to other ships along the way.
3. CCP has painted themselves into a corner with these ships and everything the try in their in house testing has proven to be worse for the game as a whole than what we have.
4. CCP is simply blind and stupid and cannot see that which you claim to be obvious.
I will leave it to each of you to decide which of these may apply.


In case you have not noticed CCP is in the midst of giving all ships a more specialized role or niche in the game, perhaps the changes (or the lack of changes) to the minnie HAC"s was done on purpose so they better fit the role that CCP has envisioned for them, whether that role is what you want it to be is not relevant.


The first thought that comes to mind is that the low PG indicates the use of auto canon instead of arties, going back to the role that CCP is creating for ships perhaps this is the role CCP wants for this ship.

While lowering the PG requirements for medium arties may help this ship, what does it do to the balance of all of the other ships in the game that can fit medium arties aince PG is always one of the factors used when balancing a ships.

If you increase the PG on this ship what potential does that open up for a creative OP fit of the month?

I'm unsure how the muninn is bad, if you buffer fit them they're half decent for mid size skirmishes albeit speed can be a problem

The vaga on the other hand, if it loses a low it would lose dps or manoeuvrability, the muninn losing a high for a mid could bring in the possibility of shield tanking.