Intergalactic Summit

The idea that one is necessarily more costly than the other is a bit... like making a sweeping statement on the matter.

In the case of cattle slavery, the costs might get prohibitive when it comes to setting up the facilities to accomodate them. However, once this is done, it is one of the cheapest - even if the least qualified - workforce. Vitoc, after all, is cheap comparatively. The cost of potential riots or issues of course has to be taken into account, but honestly, this seems to be rather rare, and when it does happen, which Holder fool does not pay insurances against such risks?

In the case of more general slavery, where it is more a matter of individual slaves rather than huge plantations or mines, the cost of clothing, sheltering, food, etc, is indeed here, but it is a false idea to believe that any employee would be less costly to employ: you will have to pay for the exact same things with him/her, either in salary, or in nature or corporate scrip like in the State. With probably, at least a certain margin so that your employee takes part in the overall consumption of your usual liberal market.

As such, I actually consider slaves to be a lot less costly than most other sources of labour.

However, where slavery comes at a certain loss is on the economic scale level and the market impact it has. A slave does not buy, or sell. A slave does not consume in excess. Only the Holder will do that for him, and rarely in excess. The only economical redeeming quality of slavery, is the slave market, which alone does not account for all the loss in terms of individual consumption.

One word, Lady Farel: Productivity.

Slavery as an economic activity is fundamentally less productive than a free market. The falloff is less pronounced in purely manual labour sectors, but becomes very significant the more technical a role.

As an example, in my industry (primary and secondary food production) comparable Amarr holderships are typically 30% less productive than their Federation counterparts and 45-50% less productive than State organisations. My employees work hard and increase their skills for incentive based pay and benefits. State corporations have these advantages and typically much less churn over long periods of time leading to highly skilled and stable workforces - as well as their well-known corporate loyalty and dedication to the corporate good. In technical industries, the gap is much wider - not least because sabotage prevention enters into cost analysis.

As others have noted, costs are higher for the holdership, typically 15-20% on a unit basis. Without the Amarr command directives and import controls, the Empire's economy would fail in a competitive market place. State mega-corporations know this and have wrapped your export markets up at very advantageous rates so the Imperial Court can claim evidence of the system working. Sadly, Federal businesses don't have this option because of anti-trust laws and required transparency, but it's been known for politically expedient contracts to be signed on this basis.

In addition, slavery tends to dissuade technological advancement. Automation is eschewed because 'slaves can do it'. The economy becomes lazy and intolerant of change. Slaves do not contribute new ideas to their masters from the 'coal face', nor do the brightest of them leave to set up their own enterprises based on inspirations from their work.

Coercion always results in low productivity. Even among the more wretched Gallentean corporations that pay miserable wages because they have a ready pool of low-skilled immigrant labour, we see this, as their productivity is so low you can't measure it, you have to dig for it. Almost every one of these businesses would be better off paying their employees more handsomely and investing in their development - but because of the socialist government paying welfare benefits to their employees to 'top up' incomes to a level barely sustainable for life, the employers manage to make profit and influence the Senate to focus elsewhere.

Hmm. I digress. Nonetheless, there is no reasonable economic argument for slavery. The religious justifications are for others to debate.

(I should note for balance that the Minmatar corporations I have recently had the privilege to visit on my promised fact-finding tour of the Republic show great promise. Their organisational method - the circle - results in the best cases resembling the Caldari method, with significant productivity gains from the loyal and dedicated nature of the unit. Inspiration and innovation comes from this almost spiritual connection to the task, with the signal advantage that these circles can reform with new ideas and members, providing a unheard of level of entrepreneurial flexibility. The disadvantages of Minmatar economic life are tied into the inevitable nepotism still to be found as a result of tribal ties, and that business that rely on structures with managers often see low productivity because hardly anyone wants to work for a 'bad boss' - i.e. 'slaver'.

Nonetheless, it has been an education. The Republic is, I think, on the brink of an economic breakthrough in innovation which will astound all of us. I will be encouraging many of these circle practices in our Minmatar employees at the Estates).

Well, promoting slavery is rather insulting, so I don't really think you should be getting a free pass here little kin. Of course, slavery's horrifying enough not to need anyone making up **** about it, so there's little need for that.

Yes, yes. Keep degrading and debasing yourself. Soon, you will not be able to think about anything but doing menial labour for your master without question.

Also, check your information. Even the stock Talwar allows each crew to have approximately 200 metric cube of space per person. That's empty space the size of a shed for each crewman. In no way does this constitute 'packed like a can'.

Isn't slavery illegal in the state, never mind selling them as a Caldari Officer?

Are you saying you are as dumb as Egivand and failed to understand it, taking off a quote that has no meaning without context?
I guess I was right, effect of being a pet degrades capsuleer mental abilities.

Okay, who ELSE from tribals are dumb enough to think I am selling slaves, eh?


ADDED:
What I have written to Mizhara was example of "Slave Promoting", when she yelped about it in the discussion to display the contrast. However, considering already two minmatars showing lack of basic cognitive abilities I am now feel sorry for wasted time, trying to explain it. I am pretty much sure it will pass through empty head of Mizhara just as it passed through empty heads of two other tribals, who really thought I was "promoting it".

Maybe indeed trying to reason with tribals is a waste of time and their place is on a leash in a slave pen.

I won't comment that............

I suspect it's rather pointless to try to correct those who have no intimate experience with the slavery in the Empire, given that they've already made up their mind according to what suits their own agenda and goals. Besides, the veracity of most claims on the IGS can be comfortably assumed to be non-existent no matter which side they argue for.

In the end, the issue simply comes down to for or against, and what measures one are willing to take in support of one's stance. All the information is out there already and people will fall for the propaganda or see through it to the moral and ethical reality of the subject on their own.

Then the violence happens until the issue is resolved, one way or the other.

This is very true. We were no less productive than freeborn. Slave or not, one tends to take pride in what one does. Or there's other incentives like better treatment, better conditions or not having to face the consequences of poor performance. It certainly gave me incentive to become infinitely better than any at my side or above me, when I recognized a slave's life for what it was.

Still little kin, you have to admit that a slave workforce generally tend to be on the lower end of education and training compared to the workforces of the State, Federation and even Republic. That's what they were referring to as "less productive". There is less drive towards self-improvement, further education and so on unless the overseers and holders see potential and drive you towards it themselves.

Individual drive and ambition tends to be a dangerous notion in a slave's workforce. The most dangerous men in a slave force are the ones with the capacity and will to think for themselves without regard for the prevailing faiths and superstitions. Almost without fail, they will come to the conclusion their "betters" are dishonest, insane, corrupt and intolerable. So, if he is a man of conviction, he will seek to change things, or if he is not he will still be likely to spread discontent among those who are.

This is stamped out for a reason, and thus the work force will be far less "productive" than those in free nations.

Freeborn do take many things for granted, and their notions of how a slave's life and work is tend to be romanticized or flat out wrong, but they're not the only ones spreading a lot of nonsensical notions of how slavery works and what it does to people.

Isn't it amazing? The first ever Ammaarr who doesn't stink does good and gets chopped off.
Samul Whatserface decides to put humanity over arrogance and short after ceases.
But such is Ammaarr. Where even an Empress can meet with unfavorable fates if they don't obey.

Yes, Ammaarr culture is largely dependend on slavery, as noticable by their rigerous adherence to pipedreams that once in primevial ages might have had symbolic importance, but nowadays are utter nonsense. Anybody disagreeing with their priests personal intrepretation of their so called scrupture gets locked up or offed off. And is not the outlawing of indevidual opinion coice the true meaning of slavery?
Ammaarr culture is not only dependend on slavery, it is composed purely out of and for the sake of slavery, in which each citizen themselves are slaves, some just a bit more priviledged than others. I am sure glad, I was able to Reclaime my life for myself and can make my own fate and oppinions as I choose.