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The negative reviews of EVE on steam

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2015-12-25 00:33:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Mr Epeen wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Filthy Infidel wrote:

To follow up With the released and upcomming games in the same genre, ...


Which is precisely zero. Are you talking about star citizen? Nope, sorry, not the same genre. EVE is not a space combat sim, and SC is not a single-shard entirely player-driven perpetual sandbox. EVE is unique. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you'll understand why EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.

I underlined the only provable item in that long winded paragraph of conjecture and misinformation.

And Merry Christmas Remiel and Filthy Infidel!

Mr Epeen Cool


I made a correlation. I did not link it to causation. And it's very easy to prove the differences between star citizen and EVE Online as I described them, and you have to try very hard to ignore them to pretend they are unprovable. So once more, your rhetoric is as empty as the little mind that produced it.

Mr Pollard Twisted

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#182 - 2015-12-25 00:42:07 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Filthy Infidel wrote:

To follow up With the released and upcomming games in the same genre, ...


Which is precisely zero. Are you talking about star citizen? Nope, sorry, not the same genre. EVE is not a space combat sim, and SC is not a single-shard entirely player-driven perpetual sandbox. EVE is unique. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you'll understand why EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.



Exactly. This is so easy to understand yet so many people don't seem to realise it and for some reason it can't be explained to them either. Probably because they only look at the surface and don't actually think it through. ED and SC are NOT competitors of EVE at all, they will get some customers from EVE to switch but that is not the same thing because those customers never really were EVE players.
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#183 - 2015-12-25 00:56:01 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

That's also why I love EVE.
There is no state that protects these people from me ...
... but the game has bad mechanics that stand in the way of natural selection.


You get dafter
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#184 - 2015-12-25 01:16:23 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.


That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline

I'd also questionable if Eve is a 'niche game' at all - or if this is marketing spin for a decline in numbers

But I agree it would be better if the game were to return to it's roots, when getting podded meant losing skill-points, ISK was harder to come by, etc

Getting rid of the CSM - and it's vested interests - would be a start - getting CCP to actually have the confidence to define what high/low/null sec actually means would be progress - implementing the lore into the game would take this process further - creating a living, changeable, coherent,universe would be great
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#185 - 2015-12-25 01:20:29 UTC
Paul Pohl wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.


That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline

I'd also questionable if Eve is a 'niche game' at all - or if this is marketing spin for a decline in numbers

But I agree it would be better if the game were to return to it's roots, when getting podded meant losing skill-points, ISK was harder to come by, etc

Getting rid of the CSM - and it's vested interests - would be a start - getting CCP to actually have the confidence to define what high/low/null sec actually means would be progress - implementing the lore into the game would take this process further - creating a living, changeable, coherent,universe would be great


Well, in Remiel's defence, he didn't say it did appeal to a wider audience, just that it has been trying.

I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to say given all CCP have said over the last couple of years. They have definitely been trying to appeal to a wider group, at least in terms of gaining long term subscriptions rather than try and don't buy.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#186 - 2015-12-25 01:30:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Paul Pohl wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.


That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline


You know that old saying, you can't please everyone? Well, it's not true. If you focus on a specific demographic, you can actually please everyone in it. And as demographics grow with new people, so too do the people you can please. Have you seen the movie Event Horizon? Most people don't like it, but the few who do absolutely adore it. When you go for mass appeal, lots of people are gonna like it, but not to the same degree that a cult following will LOVE AND ADORE FOREVER Firefly for example. EVE Online will live in the memories of its fanbase for at least a lifetime after the servers go down. WoW and its iterations are very easy to forget. Which is why EVE has a place in an art gallery, and WoW does not.

Quote:
I'd also questionable if Eve is a 'niche game' at all - or if this is marketing spin for a decline in numbers


It's always been a niche game, right from the word go. There will only ever be a minority of people that can 1. handle it to begin with, and 2. grasp the concept of a single-shard player-driven sandbox to a degree that will keep them interested. The vast majority of people want to be fed content, they don't want to make it. Which is why you can number all your favourite actors and musicians on your hands (and maybe your feet, but there won't be many when compared to the greater population). Content creators are, generally, less numerous than content consumers. This is a demonstrable fact.

The thing is, it's survived as a niche game for longer than WoW has even existed, and WoW is declining much more rapidly than EVE Online in terms of percentages.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Solecist Project
#187 - 2015-12-25 02:14:32 UTC
Paul Pohl wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

That's also why I love EVE.
There is no state that protects these people from me ...
... but the game has bad mechanics that stand in the way of natural selection.


You get dafter

You lack the knowledge and understanding to make such a calo about me.

Just look at your own words.

You don't understand that the attempts to widen the audience were counter productive ...
... because the broad mass of people does not want to play a niche game!

Anyhow, let me thank you for the opportunity, even though you don't understand anyway. :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#188 - 2015-12-25 02:18:31 UTC
Paul Pohl wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.


That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline

I'd also questionable if Eve is a 'niche game' at all - or if this is marketing spin for a decline in numbers

But I agree it would be better if the game were to return to it's roots, when getting podded meant losing skill-points, ISK was harder to come by, etc

Getting rid of the CSM - and it's vested interests - would be a start - getting CCP to actually have the confidence to define what high/low/null sec actually means would be progress -

We know what it means.

Why don't you?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#189 - 2015-12-25 02:33:30 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Paul Pohl wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.


That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline

I'd also questionable if Eve is a 'niche game' at all - or if this is marketing spin for a decline in numbers

But I agree it would be better if the game were to return to it's roots, when getting podded meant losing skill-points, ISK was harder to come by, etc

Getting rid of the CSM - and it's vested interests - would be a start - getting CCP to actually have the confidence to define what high/low/null sec actually means would be progress - implementing the lore into the game would take this process further - creating a living, changeable, coherent,universe would be great


Well, in Remiel's defence, he didn't say it did appeal to a wider audience, just that it has been trying.

I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to say given all CCP have said over the last couple of years. They have definitely been trying to appeal to a wider group, at least in terms of gaining long term subscriptions rather than try and don't buy.


I agree, they are in a difficult position

They have created a game that requires a certain level of commitment and the market has changed, toward games that don't... and seek to fleece you early on because there is nothing to the mid and late game.... and arguably nothing in the game at all... and it is prizes for all....
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#190 - 2015-12-25 02:34:16 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Paul Pohl wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

That's also why I love EVE.
There is no state that protects these people from me ...
... but the game has bad mechanics that stand in the way of natural selection.


You get dafter

You lack the knowledge and understanding to make such a calo about me.

Just look at your own words.

You don't understand that the attempts to widen the audience were counter productive ...
... because the broad mass of people does not want to play a niche game!

Anyhow, let me thank you for the opportunity, even though you don't understand anyway. :)


And hence you get dafter
Bianca Niam
Doomheim
#191 - 2015-12-25 02:50:32 UTC
Steam users are lol.
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#192 - 2015-12-25 03:14:06 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

You know that old saying, you can't please everyone? Well, it's not true. If you focus on a specific demographic, you can actually please everyone in it. And as demographics grow with new people, so too do the people you can please. Have you seen the movie Event Horizon? Most people don't like it, but the few who do absolutely adore it. When you go for mass appeal, lots of people are gonna like it, but not to the same degree that a cult following will LOVE AND ADORE FOREVER Firefly for example. EVE Online will live in the memories of its fanbase for at least a lifetime after the servers go down. WoW and its iterations are very easy to forget. Which is why EVE has a place in an art gallery, and WoW does not.


I'd suggest this is where Eve has gone wrong...

Yeah fine... focus on demographics.... and to pick up on another forum thread - if you were the last person in Eve what would you do? The answer is simple.... you would fight it out with your alts.... forgetting that the Jita market alt 0.01ing you is in fact you

Is this really the demographics?

I don't think so...

CCP have a beautifully realized graphical universe, they have a interesting variation of playstyles and game content, they have devs who are committed to the game etc

None of this is niche... in fact it is precisely the reason people play video games....
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#193 - 2015-12-25 03:47:38 UTC
Paul Pohl wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

You know that old saying, you can't please everyone? Well, it's not true. If you focus on a specific demographic, you can actually please everyone in it. And as demographics grow with new people, so too do the people you can please. Have you seen the movie Event Horizon? Most people don't like it, but the few who do absolutely adore it. When you go for mass appeal, lots of people are gonna like it, but not to the same degree that a cult following will LOVE AND ADORE FOREVER Firefly for example. EVE Online will live in the memories of its fanbase for at least a lifetime after the servers go down. WoW and its iterations are very easy to forget. Which is why EVE has a place in an art gallery, and WoW does not.


I'd suggest this is where Eve has gone wrong...

Yeah fine... focus on demographics.... and to pick up on another forum thread - if you were the last person in Eve what would you do? The answer is simple.... you would fight it out with your alts.... forgetting that the Jita market alt 0.01ing you is in fact you

Is this really the demographics?

I don't think so...

CCP have a beautifully realized graphical universe, they have a interesting variation of playstyles and game content, they have devs who are committed to the game etc

None of this is niche... in fact it is precisely the reason people play video games....


I did some background checks because it's always entertaining to figure out someone's agenda.

This is you
This is your obvious other character
this is an alt in your corp who lost a rather funky pod to someone who posts in this thread

It all makes sense now, your stance and your participation in this thread.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#194 - 2015-12-25 03:53:54 UTC
Paul Pohl wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.


That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline


I think you need to rethink that. The statement was that changes have been made to EVE to try to appeal to a wider audience. He did not write that it does appeal to a wider audience.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2015-12-25 04:00:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tisiphone Dira
Paul Pohl wrote:

Getting rid of the CSM - and it's vested interests - would be a start - getting CCP to actually have the confidence to define what high/low/null sec actually means would be progress - implementing the lore into the game would take this process further - creating a living, changeable, coherent,universe would be great



You mean turn 'high-sec' into 'completely safe-sec' don't you

edit: Oh Gregor, I just investigated your post. teehee, did I do that? *innocent look*

Guess my guess about his motives was correct. Nice to know I leave an impression on more than just their ships.

There once was a ganker named tisi

A stunningly beautiful missy

To gank a gross miner

There is nothing finer, cept when they get all pissy
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#196 - 2015-12-25 04:03:27 UTC
Paul Pohl wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

You know that old saying, you can't please everyone? Well, it's not true. If you focus on a specific demographic, you can actually please everyone in it. And as demographics grow with new people, so too do the people you can please. Have you seen the movie Event Horizon? Most people don't like it, but the few who do absolutely adore it. When you go for mass appeal, lots of people are gonna like it, but not to the same degree that a cult following will LOVE AND ADORE FOREVER Firefly for example. EVE Online will live in the memories of its fanbase for at least a lifetime after the servers go down. WoW and its iterations are very easy to forget. Which is why EVE has a place in an art gallery, and WoW does not.


I'd suggest this is where Eve has gone wrong...

Yeah fine... focus on demographics.... and to pick up on another forum thread - if you were the last person in Eve what would you do? The answer is simple.... you would fight it out with your alts.... forgetting that the Jita market alt 0.01ing you is in fact you

Is this really the demographics?

I don't think so...

CCP have a beautifully realized graphical universe, they have a interesting variation of playstyles and game content, they have devs who are committed to the game etc

None of this is niche... in fact it is precisely the reason people play video games....


Well that was a whole lot of meaningless hyperbole. Care to actually make a coherent point that shows a legitimate understanding of the concept of demographics?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#197 - 2015-12-25 04:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Tisiphone Dira wrote:
You mean turn 'high-sec' into 'completely safe-sec' don't you
Sov null already has the 'completely safe-sec' thing covered.

Oops, almost forgot: Merry Christmas, Tisiphone.

Mr Epeen Cool
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#198 - 2015-12-25 04:53:04 UTC
Paul Pohl wrote:


That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline


This is not true. What CCP did was dampen down some of the things that appealed to it's original niche crowd in hopes of getting more mainstream customers. Personally, I don't think I would stay in EVE if I'd started after around 2011 as opposed to before, knowing myself I believe I would have had a feeling of "this game is insulting my intelligence" after the 1st few hours of pop ups telling me what not to do. When I started in 2007 EVE threw me into the water and said "swim or die" (and the guy who brought me into the game did the same thing, said it was the best way to learn).

It's like a steak house thinking it needs vegan customers so they start offering tofu based dishes. But the vegans don't come because they don't want to consume anything in a place where meat is consumed, meanwhile the steak house is getting fewer of it's original customers because all that making tofu stuff means worse steak.

Obviously the steak house should have stuck to making steak and finding more carnivores lol.


Quote:

But I agree it would be better if the game were to return to it's roots, when getting podded meant losing skill-points, ISK was harder to come by, etc



IMO sticking to this would have been the best way.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#199 - 2015-12-25 05:04:09 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
...meanwhile the steak house is getting fewer of it's original customers because all that making tofu stuff means worse steak.
What?

Tofu cooties in the kitchen waft into the air and somehow contaminate the steak?

Anyway, Merry Christmas, Jenn.

Mr Epeen Cool
Solecist Project
#200 - 2015-12-25 09:02:54 UTC
You know who he reminds me of?

Lucas.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia