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EVE: How to get my friends hooked & their first PLEX
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Solecist Project
#41 - 2015-12-26 11:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Tristan Agion wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
hilarious nonsense again. Do tell us how many hours of play time you realistically get from such an AAA title, on average. Now compare that to EVE playing hours. Seriously people, stop trying to push some agenda by drowning it in words and applying some :logic: 9 times out of 10 your logic is flawed and terrible is a very obvious way. Your cleverly made up posts, paragraphs and amazing explanations to try and push/hide your agenda aren't as clever as you think they are.

What "agenda" do you think I'm pushing here?

I have 400+ hours in Crusader Kings 2 on Steam, and high numbers of hours in some other games as well. I also have other "top titles" that I don't play a lot, of course. I don't think a simple average over these is particularly meaningful. A "top title" that remains more or less unused in my Steam library (after some initial play) is more like somebody who subscribed to Eve but then let the subscription run out. There are plenty of people like that!

Anyway, marketing isn't based on perfectly rational calculus. If EVE is perceived as expensive, then that reduces its sales about as much as if it is expensive. The point I made was quite simple: compared to other products in the market EVE is actually competing - computer games - EVE appears fairly expensive. It makes no sense to talk it up as cheap in comparison to people's earnings or other products in other markets. That's not how people make their buying decisions: they will compare to similar products in the same market.

Except that your comparison is invalid, because EVE's not comparable to any other product.
And because "EVE's market" is an empty term, because there is nothing as such.
And even if there was, there *is* no "other product" in this imaginary market.

You don't even understand that you can not be taken seriously ...
... when you talk like this without actual substance in your words.


Anyhow ... fifteen bucks a month for never ending gameplay is cheap.
If you can't afford, you don't get to play. That's like, omg, how literally everything works!


And any steam library is absolutely meaningfull when it comes to information about the player ...
... but that's not the topic here at all.


The topic here is that there's people deliberately playing ignorant or dumb ...
... to keep on talking about something that has absolutely no meaning whatsoever.


This topic should be discussed with people who are actually capable of discussing something ...
... and not with people who lack even the most basic understanding to lead such a discussion ...
... for example those who come up with completely invalid comparisons, like you just did.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2015-12-26 12:32:12 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Except that your comparison is invalid, because EVE's not comparable to any other product.
And because "EVE's market" is an empty term, because there is nothing as such.
And even if there was, there *is* no "other product" in this imaginary market.

EVE is a MMO computer game, a kind of entertainment software. There are other MMO computer games. There are many other computer games. There is lots of entertainment software.

Your argument here is like saying that I cannot talk about the price of a banana, because nothing else is like a banana - only a banana is a banana. Sure. But there are are other fruit, and other food. If the price of a banana is disproportionate to that of an apple or an orange, for example, then less bananas will be sold as more people will switch to apples and oranges to get their five a day. Yes, hardcore banana fans will keep on buying bananas even if banana prices rise a lot. But whether the banana importer will be able to sustain his business on a few hardcore banana fans paying premium prices is anybody's guess.

Anyway, back in reality, CCP is de facto competing with other MMO offerings, and more widely, with other computer games, for the money people spend on electronic entertainment. To claim otherwise is simply delusional. (You can disagree with my assessment that CCP has positioned EVE in the pricier part of the market, but you cannot reasonably disagree with the fundamental point that they are indeed competing on a market...)
Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2015-12-26 13:16:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tisiphone Dira
Pish and tish

As a good source of potassium the bananas are competing with zucchinis and spinach, the price of apples is irrelevant for those after a good bite of potassium.
Eve is the best source of potassium on the market, competiting more with ultima online, archeage, minecraft and H1Z1 than WoW, which is like a cupcake, empty calories that you feel bad about once it's eaten.

(potassium in this analogy being hardcoryness or sandboxy freedom)

There once was a ganker named tisi

A stunningly beautiful missy

To gank a gross miner

There is nothing finer, cept when they get all pissy
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#44 - 2015-12-26 13:28:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Omar Alharazaad
My recommendations for your buddies to earn their first PLEX?

Jump into frigates, team up and scan down the cubicle slaves grinding away for their 'honest' ISK and take their things.
Delegate separate roles among them on how to accomplish this, IE one person scans, one steals in a combat frigate with another ready to help out in a logistics frigate....

Just a starting suggestion, they can evolve their technique as they learn more about the game.

They then either run away when the work beast becomes irritable, or work together to sting it to death and then feast on the leavings of it's carcass. Ransoming mission critical items can also net some iskies as well.

Even if they don't earn enough to cover PLEX, odds are very good that they'll have enough fun trying to keep them interested in the game. They also get to interact with all sorts of fun people this way.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Robert Sawyer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2015-12-26 14:39:19 UTC
No, no. Just no.
NO!
NOOOOOOO!

Do not grind for PLEX unless you have a sizeable income.
EVE should be played like a game, not like a job.

"And when, at last, the moment is yours, that agony will become your greatest triumph."
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-12-26 15:16:24 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
...but you cannot reasonably disagree with the fundamental point that they are indeed competing on a market...)



Yes I can. It's called demographics. I don't like apples, and I don't like oranges. I like bananas. They are more fulfilling, I prefer the taste, and frankly, apples and oranges can't be used as well in banana cake. Bananas are all I want and the price won't prevent me from buying them.

See how it works?

The other problem you have is, if you turn a banana into an orange, is it still a banana? You make EVE into something it's not just for the sake of competing, and it no longer stands on its own merits. It's now a sellout but worse than that, it's just like everything else. And let's be honest, if you want an apple or an orange instead of a banana, why are you asking for the banana to become an apple or an orange instead of just getting a damn apple or orange?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#47 - 2015-12-26 15:28:48 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

How you can even attempt to argue here ...

When two people put money into CCPs wallet ...
... it's better than only one person doing it.



Your post is a waste of space. Roll


What, are you drunk? It is only better if the two person leave more money than the one person. If they leave the same, it is irrelevant. If the one leave more than the two the one is better. With PLEX it is the latter example.

It is actually worse for CCP if everyone would subscribe, instead of plexing.

Example: Lets assume there are 30000 players. Lets us assume the PLEX does not crash in the near future, and people will keep supplying the market.

Case 1: All 30000 players subscribe and pay only for their own accounts.

Each pays 131.4 Euro for a yearly subcription, which is 10.95 per month (prices right now).

That nets CCP: 131.4*30000 = 3.942 mill Euro

Case 2: half the players subscribes (buys PLEX to sell) and the other half PLEX their account.

income from subs: 15000*131.4=1.971 mill Euro.

income from PLEX:
right now there are sales (I use 6 PLEX for 99.99 euroes as example, as I personally would never buy a more expensive package. 1 PLEX nets CCP 16.67 euros )

income from the PLEXers pr year: 15000*16.67*12= 3.00 mill

The sum(sub+PLEX)= 4.971 mill.

So CCP earn 1.029 mill Euro more in this example if the one half of the player population buys PLEX to the other half of the population.

TLDR: As PLEX are more expensive pr. month than subscriptions (And not free), the more people using PLEX for game time the more CCP earns. These calculations are done with sales prices. So if you want to help CCP PLEX your account with 1 PLEX for 19.95 Euro.

Your assumptions would only be correct if PLEX were free, but they are not. When someone uses ISK to prolong subscription, someone else paid more for that PLEX than a month subscription would have cost.






"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#48 - 2015-12-26 15:53:51 UTC
To OP, I would recommend they try to subscribe for a few months first, and get a feeling off the game. Sell the point to them, that they can better enjoy the game without the stress of having to grind.

I personally tried in the beginning to PLEX my account, but never made enough isk. Then I thought "in two month I will get it", bought two months of subscription, then I had to prolong it again. Months went by, never had the ISK. Did all the classical crap and trained for a sentry dominix ran lvl4, while I was mining on an alt mining and doing T2 production (From a second account I subscribed so i could faster get to the point where I could PLEX one of them). Kept thinking have to log on today, to run x missions. it was no fun.

Crius hit, the profit of my T2 products went down the drain. Made it even more unrealistic to earn enough ISK. After some time it became super boring running level 4 missions, so i started buying 1 year subscriptions instead and looked up what would be fun in EVE. Settled on FW never looked back. Now I could theoretically PLEX my accounts continously if I used more time on my station trading, but tbh. I don't feel like doing that more than I do now. When it turns to a job, it killls the fun. I enjoy the freedom the yearly subscription gives me. No pressure. It made EVE more fun for me, so monthly 10-12 euro is worth it IMO.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
#49 - 2015-12-26 16:52:29 UTC
I'm impressed this topic is still rolling.

It's pretty hard and almost impossible to grind for a PLEX right off the bat. The idea behind it, at least to me, is to be able to grind for it later into the game once you have a solid financial foundation and a group of people you know well. For them, or you, to expect to be able to play for free right off the bat is a bit much to handle. That will drive them away from the game faster than being ganked 10 times in a freighter because of the operating cost to get that PLEX (ships, ammo, modules, etc). OK, that may be a bit sarcastic.

I've recruited a fair share of people who played for a couple months, want to move into the space where they can earn ISK for PLEX, find out it can be a chore to grind instead of taking on projects they enjoy, then unsub. Why? "Well, so and so told me I could play free by living where you do but the cost of goods and the time is too much. I deserve my free game" and then they leave. When you break down the cost of $15 a month compared to $60 you may or may not get 20-60hours out of (depending on gake genre) you probably get a lot more bang from your buck playing EVE and working a long time toward a goal, such as PLEX, then playing Destiny or WoW for 50hrs and you have everything maxed out.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#50 - 2015-12-26 17:05:32 UTC
I think ultimately it's better to find an activity that generates enough fun for the players involved to justify paying the cost of the subscription in their minds. If you can't find that, even with help, then odds are good that this game isn't for them.
No judgements here, just saying that if it's fun enough to be worth paying for, pay for it. If it's not, then don't. Do not enslave yourself to the stress of 'I must make this much ISK per hour to keep playing'.... it's supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be a game, not another job.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#51 - 2015-12-26 18:40:46 UTC
Show them Eve-Central. That's all you can really do for them.

Oh god.
Solecist Project
#52 - 2015-12-26 18:50:13 UTC
Riot! :D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#53 - 2015-12-26 18:52:12 UTC
Hey ;D

Oh god.
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2015-12-26 18:55:20 UTC
My friends who wanted to try Eve actually game to me and said whee, so if I grind enough this game is free to play?!

I told them to not even bother trying to earn a PLEX within the first month and instead just pay the sub for a couple of months to see if they still like it afterwards. I got them a couple of ships and showed them around and stuff but I am **** at teaching people.

Eventually, the fact that they had to pay the sub put them off.

I wonder if it would have been different had I helped them grind their first PLEX, although I honestly have no idea where to start with that... train them into navy Vexors and have them rat in 0.0? Tell them to run 0.0 relic sites until the UI permanently burns into their eyes?

Maybe they were a lost cause from the beginning :D
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#55 - 2015-12-26 18:55:28 UTC
There's three types out there:

1. those who get it instantly and are hooked on eve like crack
2. those who need a couple months to figure they're hooked
3. those who'll never get it

Me? I'm the first type. I'm an eve habitual user and completely hooked. Hopefully your friends are hooked and just don't realize it yet.

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2015-12-26 19:15:12 UTC
Jarsoom Blade wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Seriously. Even for high skill, min/maxxed farmers, plexing to play is still basically a ****** deal compared to a McJob, let alone an actual grown-ass adult gig.


I told my friends to man up and get another job, at McDonalds. Sadly they won't accept anyone without at least 30 years of experience in the fine art of burger flipping. Shame really, since that €4,25 an hour for two nights a week could've really helped pay off student loans besides a full-time job. Bear

It's not about having a job or funds to pay for EVE, it's the willingness to pay for EVE, games and in general monthly fees/subs. Since subs are generally frowned upon by a growing minority of gamers, with a vast sea op F2P/B2P options available. Most of them don't know EVE is in fact good value for money as Ralph said. Expansions are 'free' for example. You pay a sub for the reason subs were actually implemented in games, to support the expansion of the game. Real expansion packs, not updates (updates, which in my opinion are a service for the customer->the player->you and I, not something you pay for, although other MMO companies state otherwise). PLEX is just a good alternative, a goal to work towards, or something you say to your friends you want to continue play EVE with, gnegnegne.

I pay an annual sub, I've never saved ISK for a PLEX. So I was curious if it was actually doable. Thanks for answering that question guys! Seems you can't really discover the things that, gets you hooked on, and you'd enjoy in, the game if you need to grind for PLEX.

So I'll redirect and rephrase! How did you guys get your friends to continously play EVE? Ignoring the need for a monthly PLEX for now.

Thanks again ;)


No game is truly F2P. You always end up paying in some fashion. Buying gold, or special in game items to "give you that edge". Even if you don't pay you'll sit there and whine like a ***** about those who did and shot you with their gold ammo or spiffy item.

The idea of PLEX was not to let cheap/poor people play for "free". It was to put a serious dent in the RMT markets...which it has done. For new players, especially casual ones, it is also a great way to get a fat wallet. Buy PLEX, sell in game for ISK, go buy stuff to have fun in vs. grinding for the ISK. On that front PLEX is success too. For most players they are not going to have the in-game means to continually pay for their subscription via PLEX.

Even when PLEX were cheap it was not a particularly good option unless you really enjoy grinding for ISK. Even at 600 million/PLEX you'd likely have to spend something like 10 hours ratting to get the ISK. Even at a low end job you'll likely make far, far more by spending those 10 hours working. Look at the numbers,

10 hours grinding is worth ~ $19.95
10 hours work is worth ~ $50-60 after taxes.
Subscription is $14.95 and even less if you pay for a longer period.

And even if they still don't want to spend their money that way...PLEX is still a ****** deal.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#57 - 2015-12-27 04:27:26 UTC
Posting in a stealth "How Can I Make A Billion Real Fast" thread.

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Max Muni
Muni Corp
#58 - 2015-12-27 17:21:36 UTC
If the goal is to have fun, just throw them a plex if you have the extra and see if they stay after a while on their own, and then they should buy a 6 month sub.

If they are the type that like Solitaire games, then they may like mission running. To me it's like that, changing ships, a little station trading, finding cool loot.... If they are this type and they just want a kick back game play, then it's very easy to get a plex in a month as follows.

1) Run the starter missions to get a t1 frigate or two. Start training for a Worm with Navy Hornets x 2
2) Go to SOE Level 1 agent in Semela (they also have a level 2 and 3 agent)
3) Run a round of Level 1 x 16 and then faction mission. (Train Social to 3, then connections)
4) Start Level 2 missions in same station.... save up for first purchase of Worm.
5) Worm ship with Level 2's and save for Gila with Navy Vespa's
6) Use the LP earned to buy SOE Launchers or SOE Probes, sell in Jita and buy Gila

Maybe a 10 days play time a few hours a day.

Then run Level 3 SOE missions in Semela until you earn a Plex, another 10 days or so.

I've done it before exactly the same way in the past just to see if it can be done and it wasn't difficult.
Now, I just sub two accounts and don't worry about how much ISK I make... I just like configuring the different ships, like variations of Solitaire...... I don't do PVP, because for Solo it's basically broken in this game.
Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
#59 - 2015-12-27 19:38:08 UTC
The only way to get my friend in EVE will be promo code + some dosh for 6 month sub and 100% isk rollback of gifted plex. Over time, off course.
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#60 - 2015-12-27 20:04:01 UTC
Jarsoom Blade wrote:
Hi guys,

In the past year I've given some of my irl friends and internet 'guildies' who've shown interest in EVE a trial via recruitment. The common thing I hear is that they always wanted to try out EVE because it seems like such an awesome in-depth game etc.
So in their trial period I've always explained alot, shown them things, took them out to get brutally murdered by gatecamps, the works. After the trial though they are put off by the monthly sub because most of them play other MMO's for which they pay monthly, but their interest in EVE doesn't really diminish.

When I tell them you can work towards a PLEX, monthly, I see hope in their eyes Bear Well-known youtubers and streamers say the same thing: PLEX for first month is doable.Thing is, only one now-corpmate of mine got close to earning 100mil by himself for his first PLEX at the end of his trial, before I actually just gave him a PLEX for his first month after trial.

So how does a trial character, with limitations to his/her skill-learning and playtime, realistically go about getting his or her first PLEX in such a short time span?

Thanks in advance for your reply, I'd like to take my buddies into the game that I love! #thefeels


New player + character grinding 1.2 billion ISK each month for PLEX is going to be reason they quit game in first place. I would never suggest my friends to grind ISK in EVE, ever.