EVE General Discussion

I'm a Field Medic, why cant I do Thoracic Surgery on day one?

Surely if I paid for the basic week long course I should have the same employment opportunities as the Professor of Thoracic Medicine at Guys Hospital?

A specious argument for a specious thread.

Why shouldn't CCP profit from their effort? Don't like it? don't play.

I know my position isn't popular but pay or close the door behind you.

In the end these arguments condense down to:

"in other games i can get to end game status in a few months and show off and I want to do it here as well"

Typically a new players sees the "end game" state as something like "fly a battleship in level IVs" or "roam losec and null killing everything in my HAC/T3" though the more deluded see it as "fly a Titan".

There IS NO end game in EVE just a series of goals.

Some of those goals are not what they seem either. Sitting a character in a Titan that never moves for months on end waiting for a random bat call at 3.00 am on your cell phone from the FC saying log in and get ready to fleet up is actually more of a chore than anything resembling fun.

Those limits are flexoble with the right attitude.

And


Cause of alts and spies

Total SP isn't entirely relevant, but you're just throwing around the old "new players aren't behind the curve" line for the hell of it if you actually think a pilot who can fly all of every races ships with weapons and support skills and everything at 5 isn't light years ahead of a week-old player in terms of usefulness.

Where are the wh corps inviting players with under 1m SP to come play with them? How fun is warping into PVP with 20% cap cause you have no engineering or navigation skills and now you're going to try to afterburn a t1 frig up to the baddies to point them with your ship that has 1500 ehp? Joined a corp in null? Have fun flying over there without an inty or cov ops! FW? Etc.

Eve doesn't start off a noob unable to join with experienced players to contribute. It's not like a lvl 5 in wow trying to join a raid where AOEs hit for 5000x his max hp every pulse. But there's still an enormous difference in how overall useful a character with just 5m so is compared to a noob... but that's already months of sub time! And 50m is vastly more useful than 5, though that's a few years of sub time.

Don't get me wrong. I love eve's sp system. But it isn't all rainbows and butterflies for new players just because there aren't arbitrary+absolute barriers to entry for most all of the games content. A faster track to your first several million sp isn't necessarily caving to a bunch of impatient millenials as much as it is helping hook new players into the different things that are possible for them without requiring them to train for months first to be able to fly ships beyond frigates.

No it hasn't been finalised.

The last we had officially was in CCP Seagull's last video where she said she is for the idea and then some unofficial comments during Eve Downunder that somewhere around April next year is the current plan for introduction.

I agree with what you say.

But one should not overlook that the skill points are also used to simply stop those who don't have them from applying.

Running a corp is big commitment, of both time and effort...you don't need the extra effort...

Don't be deluded.

There is absolutely nothing absurd in what I said. It is happening on a daily basis and has done so for the last decade. It's really as simple as that. You are just massively confusing the issue of what you can do, on your own, with the gameplay you can actually take part in. None of what you can fly/fit/do limits what gameplay is open to you in any way.

Just because you can't fly a capship doesn't mean you can't participate in capship warfare. Hell, capship warfare relies on there being non-capships on the field because without them, the caps will not be able to do anything. Just because you can't mass produce station components doesn't mean you can't participate in the outpost building process. Just because you can't fly a mindlinked Rorq does not mean you can't participate in the strip-mining of entire constellations.

That means you can participate in everything EVE has to offer — from day 1. Don't assume that “a bit” is a limitation in your gameplay options. If it is, it's only because you choose to limit yourself for some mind-boggling reason. You can always choose not to. The game is not stopping you; you are. The tools are not the gameplay and the skills only affect the tools.

Yes it was. You very explicitly said that they “have to, because they are largely useless otherwise.” Of course, this is absolute bilge. Aside from the two very specialised roles he mentioned — logi and boosting — everything else you'd have in a fleet is a position where a new player can contribute: scouting, baiting, damage dealing, ewar, tackle, even probing with a fairly minute bit of training.

Not even remotely. If at any point, you feel “locked out of content”, you have massively misdiagnosed the situation. What's really happening is that, instead of engaging with said content, you just adamantly and pig-headedly refuse to take part in what's available to you for some wholly spurious reason. Maybe you've been fooled by the idiots who keep singing the old “don't do X until you have Y” tune because they are themselves too incompetent and to ignorant to actually try anything. Maybe you are stuck with incompetent and complacent corp mates who simply refuse to explore their options and/or let you do the same. Maybe (and this is the really scary option) you're just not willing to learn. No matter what, though, all of these problems are with people — including yourself — not with the game.

And here too, you are confusing two completely unrelated things: tools and gameplay. The tools are just that: tools. They offer nothing. They are not content. There is nothing that stands in the way between you and the entire sandbox other than you and — occasionally — other players. The game itself is not keeping you away.

I'm confused.

Everyone is telling the people requesting more or faster SP to stop crying because SP doesn't matter, right? So if SP doesn't matter than why do you have a problem letting people have more of it or acquire it faster?

Some seriously twisted thought processes manifesting from vets that should know better in this place.

The real problem is calling them skill points in the first place. It's just leveling with a different name. You are not acquiring skill, you are unlocking content. There's nothing wrong with an MMO making people grind for (or stick their thumb up their ass for a month, as the case may be) to unlock the next ship. But at least call it what it is. The word skill should never have been used for the EVE leveling process.

Mr Epeen

i think the issue is that people seem to think they cant undock unless they have all this sp

im not against sp buying whatsoever i just think that these people will be greatly disappointed when they do buy sp and it doesnt actually create this winning formula that they imagine

I don't think we mean SP don't matter at all, more that they don't matter in the way that people seem to think.

SP provide flexibility to a character, but the lack of SP isn't a barrier to accessing content. A young character can still access content if they want, despite their lack of SP.

As a concrete example, here are two of my characters:

http://puu.sh/m4zIm/6078e33c2a.jpg

Scip has 43 million SP and does a lot of solo/small gang pvp. Scip doesn't do much if any large scale fleet pvp and no Capital fleet combat.

The other character has only 8 million SP and regularly takes part in Capital fights, large fleet combat, sov warfare and some PvE.

The difference between the 2 characters isn't the skillpoints. It's in the networks and structures around them that allow each of them to access different content.

The Vendunari is focused on solo/small gang/Alliance Tournament pvp aimed at helping each member punch above their weight.

Pandemic Horde is more of a 'quanitity has a quality all of its own' type Alliance that provides a tonne of fun for new players right through to veterans.

Both characters have heaps of fun in different sorts of content, and having only 1/5th of the SP on my Horde character doesn't prevent access to any content. The character is less flexible in terms of what she can fly, but Scip will never take part in Capital warfare, where she is regularly involved in those types of fights.

That's, I think more where Remiel, Tippia, Lan, etc. are coming from.

SP isn't the barrier to content. People's mindset and beliefs are their own barriers.

Faster SP acquisition won't mean more content, because access to the content is player dependent; and no rate of character learning helps change the rate at which a player learns the game, or makes connections with other people.