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Racial Ewar is Unbalanced.

Author
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#21 - 2015-12-19 18:19:18 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:

The trouble is in people's understanding of turret tracking. It's a multiplication, where sigradius/weapon sig is an equally valid strategy to improve your tracking. Most peeps tend to focus on "getting rid of speed" (ergo: webs) although blowing up their sigradius is as far as the game engine is concerned identically the same thing.


Webs factor in a difference of 2.5x whilst even bonused painters overheated with links cap out at +94% or something.

Only redeeming quality of TPs is range.

I've also tried both TPs and webs on certain hulls (rather than double webs - to let my target pick up speed and increase transversal), and the benefit of the TP was minimal and hardly worth the slot investment.

Maybe TPs are meant as an upgrade to webs? And range part is not negligible, you can TP with 5m vigils from 120 km and increase damage application by 200%, can't do the same with webs.

Let's not even get into the debate about missiles or torpedos specifically, bombers would be worthless without TPs in a lot of engagements.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2015-12-19 20:47:32 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:

The trouble is in people's understanding of turret tracking. It's a multiplication, where sigradius/weapon sig is an equally valid strategy to improve your tracking. Most peeps tend to focus on "getting rid of speed" (ergo: webs) although blowing up their sigradius is as far as the game engine is concerned identically the same thing.


Webs factor in a difference of 2.5x whilst even bonused painters overheated with links cap out at +94% or something.

Only redeeming quality of TPs is range.

I've also tried both TPs and webs on certain hulls (rather than double webs - to let my target pick up speed and increase transversal), and the benefit of the TP was minimal and hardly worth the slot investment.



Yes, but you have to think of it this way as well, first of all, TP doesn't only make a ship easier to hit, it makes it easier to lock. this becomes super useful for instant lock ships in small gangs because not only can that lock a target, and then allow their entire gang to lock that target that much faster to bring their weapons to bear. It also a percentage based, that means a large ship will be that much larger and easier to apply max damage to. Sure webs make a target slower that much easier to hit, but a good target painting ship in small gang and even large fleet warfare will make killing another ship that much faster.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Madd Adda
#23 - 2015-12-19 21:04:01 UTC
i would agree if we couldn't train into any ship outside our default race. Since this isn't the case, what stops you from training into those lines?

Carebear extraordinaire

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-12-20 00:27:36 UTC
I'd like to see racial EWAR like this:

Amarr
Primary: weapon disruption (type: disruption)
Secondary: capacitor warfare (type: disruption/vulnerablizing combo)
Tertiary: Ladar ECM (type: disruption)

Caldari
Primary: defender missiles (should also affect drones) (type: disruption)
Secondary: multispectral ECM (type: disruption)
Tertiary: Magnetometric ECM (type: disruption)

Gallente
Primary: sensor dampening (type: disruption)
Secondary: warp jamming (type: vulnerablizing)
Tertiary: Gravimetric ECM (type: disruption)

Minmatar
Primary: target painting (type: vulnerablizing)
Secondary: stasis webification (type: vulnerablizing)
Tertiary: Radar ECM (type: disruption)





What you may notice about this layout is that you have a very fair racial EWAR layout, with all races getting at least one that's highly effective in a wide variety of situations, and no race getting anything that works on all targets. I have taken racial ECM away from Caldari and spread it out to all the races as a tertiary, perhaps a role bonus thrown in onto their EWAR ships but just for that specific type. Caldari now gets a bonus to multispectral ECM specifically, so they can fit just one or two jammers like everyone else, their jammers will work the same on any race target but will be weaker than a racial bonused jammer.

There is also a distinct racial flavor here: Caldari is fully disruption focused while Minmatar is fully vulnerablizing focused. Disruption refers to EWAR that prevents the target from mounting an offense, while vulnerablizing EWAR is an attack on the target that makes them more vulnerable in combat. Amarr and Gallente are balanced, having both types in their primary/secondary layout.

This change would also come with a massive rebalance of defender missiles, as it will become Caldari's primary disruption and must therefore be something they can rely on. I'm picturing it dealing damage to missiles and drones: fatal damage to missiles and light damage plus a stun effect to drones. It can be the same damage on either, but drones just have a lot more hit points than missiles do. This disruption system will not be evenly effective against all targets but instead will be best against ships that use missiles and drones. There is a lore-based reasoning behind it, too, as Caldari are both strongly missile-oriented and have a need to combat drone users due to their enemy being the Gallente.

I have allowed Amarr to keep their energy warfare bonuses despite it being somewhat of a blanket EWAR system, and let me explain why, let me explain how it differs from ECM:
1.) A ship that doesn't rely on capacitor is still effective, while a ship that doesn't rely on targeting is basically useless. Smartbombs have a highly niche usage, and F.o.F. missiles--true to the name--will hit friendly targets. But a ship with shield amplifiers or energized membranes, using capless weapons, can fight just fine without its capacitor.
2.) ECM jammers have a long range and become effective immediately if successful. Energy warfare modules have a short range and they take time to drain the opponent's capacitor, meanwhile you're draining your own, also yours and your opponent's capacitor are regenerating. It's a tug of war in which you must mount a considerable capacitor offensive to make a huge difference to your opponent--unlike ECM in which one jammer module in a mid slot can completely shut off the opponent from attacking.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2015-12-20 01:09:30 UTC
Ummm. No?

More importantly: WHY?
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