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Congrats CalMil
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#61 - 2016-01-13 01:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
You really should know better.


So because i sometimes take outrageous risks against the odds in keeping with the purpose of using a kite, my simple supply/demand explanation of fundamental economic activity is to be disregarded?

Hmmm,ok lol.

Id have hoped all that time chaining belts would give you time to construct a more coherent response. I guess there is a cognitive bottleneck.


You talk about risk but you have a childs understanding of it. I risk towers worth billions per month each whether I undock or not. Simple inaction on my part is more risky than your garmurs.

You're confusing a reflection for the nights sky: whelping a frigate worth more than some battleships isn't impressive.



I personally accumulated ~30 billion isk this month with a little effort and minimal risk. When i said you were thinking like a nullbear its comments exactly like this one that proves my point. Assets in space are content generators, not content.

Please, do carry on explaining how you are just bad at EVE.

I dont make the rules, i just use and enjoy them. Unlike most of the miserable whiners on these forums :)
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#62 - 2016-01-13 02:47:56 UTC
*golf clap* it's not hard to make money you plebeian.

Why do you think I even live in null? For the fights. Getting paid to do my job ain't nothing to sniff at when you hit capital fleet sizes.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#63 - 2016-01-13 06:34:00 UTC
The only one whining in here is you, Crosi.

Stay free.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#64 - 2016-01-13 11:29:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
*golf clap* it's not hard to make money you plebeian.

Why do you think I even live in null? For the fights. Getting paid to do my job ain't nothing to sniff at when you hit capital fleet sizes.


My kb shows 225 cap kills and 3 cap losses. Some months dreadnaught was my most used ship. Not sure how many kills i have while using caps but its probably quite a few. More kills than you have ever made no doubt.

Your kb shows zero cap kills and zero cap losses.

Now, im not saying this disproves your explanation for why gal mil lp retains its value better than most. Im just responding to your absurd assertion that because you are 2 bit moom manager, or because you claim to have been involved in some level of cap escallation, that my supply/demand explanation of gal mil lp values is not correct.

Lets take a step back.Obviously i have offended you and your epeening attempts have fallen quite short. All lp stores have good isk/lp while the faction is doing badly in occupancy and all lp stores crash when their faction hits high tiers.

Some factions isk/lp/tier-level correlation is lagged out due to an abundance of available LP generated items from historical farming. Gal mil has never been the target of a huge farming effort (beyond inferno) as our LP is just harder to farm. All other factions have.

Not to say gal mil doesnt have good items in its store. But so do all factions. Even if we did have a better overall spread of items, would that not be fair since for quite some time weve been running missions in prots and tengus compaired to other factions using bombers?

Of course if you are still offended, rebut by argument with a tale of that one time you got an officer spawn after only 4 hours of chaining belts.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#65 - 2016-01-13 11:31:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
double post
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#66 - 2016-01-13 11:37:42 UTC
So much attempting to wave around an E-peen in this thread, it is downright silly.
I have a fun time playing this game, and I don't care if my LP is worth alot or a little, I still enjoy it.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#67 - 2016-01-13 15:19:30 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
*golf clap* it's not hard to make money you plebeian.

Why do you think I even live in null? For the fights. Getting paid to do my job ain't nothing to sniff at when you hit capital fleet sizes.


My kb shows 225 cap kills and 3 cap losses. Some months dreadnaught was my most used ship. Not sure how many kills i have while using caps but its probably quite a few. More kills than you have ever made no doubt.

Your kb shows zero cap kills and zero cap losses.

Now, im not saying this disproves your explanation for why gal mil lp retains its value better than most. Im just responding to your absurd assertion that because you are 2 bit moom manager, or because you claim to have been involved in some level of cap escallation, that my supply/demand explanation of gal mil lp values is not correct.

Lets take a step back.Obviously i have offended you and your epeening attempts have fallen quite short. All lp stores have good isk/lp while the faction is doing badly in occupancy and all lp stores crash when their faction hits high tiers.

Some factions isk/lp/tier-level correlation is lagged out due to an abundance of available LP generated items from historical farming. Gal mil has never been the target of a huge farming effort (beyond inferno) as our LP is just harder to farm. All other factions have.

Not to say gal mil doesnt have good items in its store. But so do all factions. Even if we did have a better overall spread of items, would that not be fair since for quite some time weve been running missions in prots and tengus compaired to other factions using bombers?

Of course if you are still offended, rebut by argument with a tale of that one time you got an officer spawn after only 4 hours of chaining belts.


Razor logi doesn't use combat drones or tagging weapons. Kill boards are a poor reflection of activity.

I'm getting back in to capital manufacturing after 3 years break. My two alts are dead in the water and haven't been subbed for about that length of time and I have no intention of resubbing them.

The only noteworthy item calmil had to offer for years until recently was cnbcs. Maybe cn shield booster amps. Compared to the popularity of galmil store items I have no idea wtf you're talking about. Really mate.

I can't comment on relative levels of farming but I'd be interested to know where your 30bil per month comes from.

As for that golem you are no doubt referencing it's kind of cute really you're digging up something from 2+ years ago that even I barely remember as some kind of evidence of... anything? Right now I could be running guristas missions for hundreds of mil per hour. But I dont. I could go back to aridia and resume manufacturing boosters with the stuff I left behind. But I don't. I could go back to wormholes and make a 500mil an hour krabbing there in c4s like I did. But I don't.

Because I'm not a null bear. I didn't move there for safety or to take advantage of whatever conceited shams they have out there *(and there are a lot). This exchange has been amusing but you're delusional if you think I give one flying **** about anyones capital kills when the whole of nullsec ia holding out for incoming major changes to cap warfare. Your accomishments are not interesting or impressive. Noone cares but you.

Maybe I should just jump back in my boosted rook and come back to fw so I can fly my 4bil hg pod like I used to. Ever seen that joke gif about the bouncing cars? That's you.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#68 - 2016-01-13 16:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
I dont argue in gifs, but could you please be any more of a stereotypical nullbear in doing so lol.

So a quick look thought items with reasonable volume. im sure this list is not exhaustive;

CN-Hookbill
CN-Raven
CN-Osprey
CN-Crapacal
CN-Drake
CN-LSE
CN-Vespa
CN-Warden
CN-PDU
CN-Wasp
Datacores
Cap Boosters
CN-Hornet
CN-Torps
CN-MSE

They all come in at over 1000isk/lp. Some of them well over. The actual value is dictated by supply and demand. Volume of sales would indicate that there is reasonable demand with gallente having the greater volume on smaller hulls and caldari having greater volume of the BC/BS hulls. Therefor the supply seems to be what regulates the isk/lp value.

And i was not referencing a golem, but its interesting that you have a story to tell. I was referencing your repeated use of seemingly unrelated anecdotes to prove me wrong about the LP store lol. I just suggested that you next used an anecdote that any nullbear would be familiar with.

You are not a nullbear? You are a risk taker and a move maker? It sounds like someone has palmed off one of the most boring jobs in eve to you for little reward and you think its a good thing lol. You fly only logistics whos biggest risk is having it SRP'd if you lose it so its not like you are risking anything. You my friend are a fully fledged cool aid drinking nullbear.

Also, i didnt bring up cap fights, you did. I just responded to you.

As for the ISK, i didnt say i earned 30bil every month. I just did this month. I could make it every month if i wanted to. Given the tea leaves i just decided that it was a good time to make hay while the sun was shining.
Lucy Callagan
Goryn Clade
#69 - 2016-01-13 17:15:17 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


I personally accumulated ~30 billion isk this month


Money doesn't make happiness, give me a bit so I can share your sadness.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#70 - 2016-01-13 21:35:34 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
I dont argue in gifs, but could you please be any more of a stereotypical nullbear in doing so lol.

So a quick look thought items with reasonable volume. im sure this list is not exhaustive;

CN-Hookbill
CN-Raven
CN-Osprey
CN-Crapacal
CN-Drake
CN-LSE
CN-Vespa
CN-Warden
CN-PDU
CN-Wasp
Datacores
Cap Boosters
CN-Hornet
CN-Torps
CN-MSE

They all come in at over 1000isk/lp. Some of them well over. The actual value is dictated by supply and demand. Volume of sales would indicate that there is reasonable demand with gallente having the greater volume on smaller hulls and caldari having greater volume of the BC/BS hulls. Therefor the supply seems to be what regulates the isk/lp value.
.


You keep deliberately missing the point because you don't want to admit there's a problem (but i think you know there is)

When gallente are consistently at least 1 tier in front of caldari for a long time caldari lp should be worth a lot more, but up until recently gallente lp has been worth more. The fact is gallente navy ships are about the same price as caldari navy ships but they are being used far more, by about 3:1 when i checked. that has nothing to do with missioning or farming or anything else, if missioning or lp stockpiles were a factor there would be more caldari lp in the system do i'd expect to see more caldari ships in space but that's definitely not happening.

basically gallente have better ships which means more demand and better prices for their lp. as far as im concerned it cheapens everything, like playing a game with cheats on.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#71 - 2016-01-13 23:13:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
If by 'worth the same' you mean caldari ships are worth about 20% more then yes, they are worth the same.

You have one major misconception.The amount of LP circulating does not drive the ships being used. The amount of lp simply drives the isk value of LP. When i talk about volumes im referring to the number of ships being bought in Jita, which contrary to your persecution complex, does not seem to represent any significant 3:1 problem.

Comet 200/day - 2,000,000 LP
Hookbill 125/day - 1,250,000 LP

Vexor NI - 170/day - 7,650,000 LP
Crapacal NI - 30/day - 1,350,000 LP

Exeq NI - 15/day - 675,000 LP
Osprey NI - 35/day - 1,575,000 LP

Brutix NI - 30/day - 3,000,000 LP
Drake NI - 45/day - 4,500,000 LP

Dominix NI - 10/day - 2,500,000 LP
Raven NI - 25/day - 6,250,000 LP

Gal mil hulls = 15.8m LP/day
Cal mil hulls = 11.5m LP/day

While gal mil ships are outselling the cal mil ships. The 3:1 ratio from your imagination is not reflected in a cursory examination of the jita market. Gallente are earning 75% more LP per effort than cal mil. If your premise was correct you would expect to see our ships being sold at a 75% higher rate and then some extra to describe the 'fact that gallente ships are also better'

Since that is not the case, i would again point out that the supply of LP would just seem to be relatively low which insulates gal mil from extended periods of market collapse. This has been the case for years, and nothing has happened to change it.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#72 - 2016-01-13 23:46:17 UTC
Did you know I used to get srp for fw and lowsec as well? Its part of why you pay corp taxes to start with.

It was never an anecdote to mention you're a pleb who flies probably 4-6bil worth of equipment in cancer fit garmurs with links to club seals in fw. And then you have the nerve to pretend that you're special meanwhile noone writes articles about you.

I don't have a "job" in null. That's not how it works. I personally have nothing to do with towers.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#73 - 2016-01-14 00:01:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Never said i was special. What insecurity in your personality made you think i did?

Also, perhaps you are under the impression that once a thread goes to the next page, that all previous comments are lost?

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
I risk towers worth billions per month

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Getting paid to do my job ain't nothing to sniff at


Clearly you have taken my nullbear comment very personally. Since then you have done nothing but display your shamefully small epeen for all to see. That was a mistake from where im sitting.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#74 - 2016-01-14 00:27:05 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
If by 'worth the same' you mean caldari ships are worth about 20% more then yes, they are worth the same.

You have one major misconception.The amount of LP circulating does not drive the ships being used. The amount of lp simply drives the isk value of LP. When i talk about volumes im referring to the number of ships being bought in Jita, which contrary to your persecution complex, does not seem to represent any significant 3:1 problem.

Comet 200/day - 2,000,000 LP
Hookbill 125/day - 1,250,000 LP

Vexor NI - 170/day - 7,650,000 LP
Crapacal NI - 30/day - 1,350,000 LP

Exeq NI - 15/day - 675,000 LP
Osprey NI - 35/day - 1,575,000 LP

Brutix NI - 30/day - 3,000,000 LP
Drake NI - 45/day - 4,500,000 LP

Dominix NI - 10/day - 2,500,000 LP
Raven NI - 25/day - 6,250,000 LP

Gal mil hulls = 15.8m LP/day
Cal mil hulls = 11.5m LP/day

While gal mil ships are outselling the cal mil ships. The 3:1 ratio from your imagination is not reflected in a cursory examination of the jita market. Gallente are earning 75% more LP per effort than cal mil. If your premise was correct you would expect to see our ships being sold at a 75% higher rate and then some extra to describe the 'fact that gallente ships are also better'

Since that is not the case, i would again point out that the supply of LP would just seem to be relatively low which insulates gal mil from extended periods of market collapse. This has been the case for years, and nothing has happened to change it.


I used z-kill data because market data is unreliable, especially jita which is in caldari space 3 jumps away from the closest sprot lp store, the markets in rens, amarr, and dodixie would all be skewed to their relative factions.


Quote:
In eve demand is driven by destruction, and the best way to gauge demand for lp in the case of faction warfare is to look at how many Navy ships were lost, and multiply that by the lp cost of each ship. It's more reliable than any metrics you'll get from market data in trade hubs. e.g. a player buys a Navy Raven from you that's 250k lp cashed in and you might forget about it and move on, but from the point of view of the overall market for SPROT lp that 250k lp isn't really cashed out until the ship gets destroyed. The player can still sell the ship to someone else at a later date effectively cancelling his original purchase, and it can change hands multiple times, each transaction registering on the graphs of trade hubs but still only 1 purchase from the LP store and only 250k lp sold. Only when the ship gets destroyed is your 250k SPROT lp consumed and flushed from the market, the player might chose to buy another or he might not it doesn't matter, he can't sell it on again. Compare the pve ships Caldari have with high volume ships like the Fed Navy Comet, or the Navy Vexor, those ships are constantly getting destroyed always creating fresh demand for more FDU lp. That's a good thing, but Caldari and Minmattar really need a couple of ships like that too or they are at a disadvantage.


Faction Frigates

1. Navy Slicer: 41,281 destroyed = 412 281 000 lp
2. Fed Navy Comet: 39,150 destroyed = 391 500 000 lp
3. Fleet Firetail: 21,435 destroyed = 214 350 000 lp
4. Navy Hookbill: 11,337 destroyed = 113 370 000 lp


Faction Cruisers

1. Vexor Navy: 18,813 destroyed = 846 585 000 lp
2. Navy Omen: 9,459 destroyed = 425 655 000 lp
3. Scythe FI: 4,418 destroyed = 198 810 000 lp
4. Stabber FI: 3,890 destroyed = 175 050 000 lp
5. Aug Navy Issue: 3,030 destroyed = 136 350 000 lp
6. Exequror Navy Issue: 1,861 destroyed = 83 745 000 lp
7. Navy Caracal: 1,251 destroyed = 56 295 000 lp
8. Navy Osprey: 612 destroyed = 27 540 000 lp


Faction Battlecruisers

1. Navy Brutix: 1,227 destroyed = 122 700 000 lp
2. Fleet Cane: 930 destroyed = 93 000 000 lp
3. Navy Drake: 814 destroyed = 81 400 000 lp
4. Navy Harbinger: 738 destroyed = 73 800 000 lp


Faction Battleships

1. Raven Navy Issue: 976 destroyed = 244 000 000 lp
2. Navy Apocalypse: 927 destroyed = 231 750 000 lp
3. Tempest Fleet Issue: 602 destroyed = 150 500 000 lp
4. Navy Megathron: 570 destroyed = 142 500 000 lp
5. Typhoon Fleet Issue: 492 destroyed = 123 000 000 lp
6. Scorpion Navy Issue: 416 destroyed = 104 000 000
7. Navy Dominix: 367 destroyed = 91 750 000
8. Navy Geddon: 210 destroyed = 52 500 000

Anyway I did this before the december changes because fdu lp was trading for about 1400 isk/lp dumping onto sell orders and caldari were getting about 1200 isk/LP despite you being 2 tiers higher and people were trying to tell me it's just because calmil farmers and missioners were flooding the market with ships but that was clearly not the case. gallente were able to sell three times more lp and still get a higher price for it because they had better ships.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#75 - 2016-01-14 00:35:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Volume of ships sold is a better indication of the forces on LP value than ships destroyed. Its a direct correlation. There couldve been several billion hookbills sold that have not died.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#76 - 2016-01-14 01:00:42 UTC
I don't agree but it doesn't matter anymore because a lot changed after that and it's much better now. Caldari got the navy osprey buff, minmattar got the fleet cane both should be big markets. if the fleet stabber got a buff to pg, and they try something different with the navy caracal (i'd like it changed for a navy moa) i'd call it balanced and nobody in faction war would be worse off.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#77 - 2016-01-14 01:19:50 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
I don't agree but it doesn't matter anymore because a lot changed after that and it's much better now. Caldari got the navy osprey buff, minmattar got the fleet cane both should be big markets. if the fleet stabber got a buff to pg, and they try something different with the navy caracal (i'd like it changed for a navy moa) i'd call it balanced and nobody in faction war would be worse off.


You disagree that the number of ships sold is a better metric than ships destroyed when examining LP values? It doesnt matter if no ships of a certain type are destroyed if they have steady sales numbers.

Sure, you are imagining a saturation point, but for the purposes of the LP store value there is no evidence that any ship has reached saturation no matter how few times it dies. Sales numbers are fairly constant.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#78 - 2016-01-14 01:41:10 UTC
saturation is the word i was looking for, pvp ships are like consumables and pve ships are more like durable goods.

There are a couple of things killboard stats don't account for: player turnover, so a player joins eve buys ships and keeps them in his hangar for good, or leaves with those ships still in his hangar - they are effectively cashed out of the lp market. Or pve ships getting destroyed in missions by npc's so they are not as accurate as raw data from the actual lp stores, but these numbers are insignificant compared with the demand created by pvp, and it's much better than trade volumes in jita which could just as easily be station traders and speculators selling the same ship over and over again, or even just regular players buying a navy raven and selling it again when they skill into a golem, it's the same lp but it's showing in the market data multiple times.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#79 - 2016-01-14 01:50:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Fourteen Maken wrote:
saturation is the word i was looking for, pvp ships are like consumables and pve ships are more like durable goods.


But they are all still selling a good rates. So saturation does not apply. It could theoretically apply in the future. But why base your current claims on something that hasnt happened yet?

Its like making your financial decisions on the basis that the sun is going to go nova in several billion years.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#80 - 2016-01-14 05:56:50 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Never said i was special. What insecurity in your personality made you think i did?

Also, perhaps you are under the impression that once a thread goes to the next page, that all previous comments are lost?

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
I risk towers worth billions per month

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Getting paid to do my job ain't nothing to sniff at


Clearly you have taken my nullbear comment very personally. Since then you have done nothing but display your shamefully small epeen for all to see. That was a mistake from where im sitting.


Probably the part where you talked about your extreme risks. In a garmur. Where other people have said it all before.

It's that sense of communal ownership that makes a nation a nation. An empire an empire. Yeah you might not have any real power over it but you are still a part of it and without a sense of ownership over where you live what are you even playing in null for?

There's no epeen but yours being wagged throwing your sad achievements around.