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New camera now in opt-in Beta on TQ

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Author
NIkon Dobran
Electric Pain Company
#61 - 2015-12-22 19:09:22 UTC  |  Edited by: NIkon Dobran
First Person Camera Feedback:-

Kind of like it but you need to pull the camera back more and allow the user's head to look around. Kind of like being in a bubble, would be nice to be able to turn left and right to see the ship outside.

EDIT:-

As it currently feels like the batman suit from Batman (1989) where Michael Keaton was left unable to turn his head. Ugh
Kesthely
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#62 - 2015-12-22 23:55:33 UTC
First things first, the new viewing modes look extremely nice. however theres 2 small things that i like to be implemented.

1) Ability to inverse the up and down in first person. (it feels unnatural to me in first person) while i don't want to change the key bindings up and down for my other views.

2) In First person some way to allow the tactical overlay to work so you not only can see more clearly when a target is in weapon range, but also the relevant ranges of people

on a sidenote plz allow occulus vr to be implemented, playing eve in first person with vr would make it so cool!
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#63 - 2015-12-24 07:28:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
So after stepping away for a while (a few weeks) then coming back, rereading the info on the new camera and trying it again these are my observations...

1. The camera offsetting from the ship as a means of conveying speed... still bad don't like it at all during normal flight. During warp fine but during normal flight it's just bad.

2. The whole shift-alt click camera tracking thing... still does nothing for me. It just says "tracking" by whatever is selected in the overview box but nothing actually visually changes. No idea why you couldnt just leave tracking alone, which brings me to...

3. I noticed the note about using "look-at" in order to aim the camera for dscanning...
a. Again, why couldn't you just leave tracking alone? Selecting an object and having the camera go straight to it when tracking was enabled was efficient, functional and logical.

b. Why add in extra clicks to accomplish the same thing? So now you have to select the object on overview, then click one of the "look-at" buttons (why there are 2 I have no idea other than giving you a second button option to click if the wobbly camera movement on the other one doesn't sufficiently succeed at making you nauseous) and then watch the camera swing drunkenly around.

c. The camera rotates on it's own axis independent of the ship as if you have an actual camera in space. It feels like manipulating a camera around in a scene within a 3d modeling program. It's clunky and disorienting and not appropriate for a game interface.

d. Because of the previous and the fact that the ship offsets itself from the cameras line of sight (which in itself is disorienting and nauseating,) I assume your intent is to prevent the ship from obscuring the view but is that really necessary? That's something that should be available under advanced camera options for video makers. For actual game play it provides no benefit and only serves to disorient the pilot. As soon as that camera starts rotating around its own axis and looking away from the players ship as opposed to through it, it creates a sense of becoming lost in your virtual space without any idea where your ship is and completely destroys your ability to actually tell what your ship is doing (direction its facing, is it actively turning, is it even moving at all? is it shooting, is it being shot?) which makes for a horrible sense of awareness and loss of comfort with your surroundings.

4. Camera zoom... Is very bad. The problem is simple, lets say you roll your mouse wheel through 5 quick clicks, instead of responding with an instant step of zoom being applies for each click, it tries to apply a "smooth" zoom. All this ends up doing is create zoom "lag". You scroll the wheel a few steps not now how many to apply because it's so slow to respond, then the zoom rushes to catch up and you end up face planting against whatever object you were trying to zoom in on. Then you try to scroll back out and you end up on the other side of the solar system. Adjusting the zoom speed in options doesn't help matters any. It causes the zoom to happen more quickly but also causes each click to zoom in even further which just exasperates the problem. Smooth zoom = bad .

5. First person camera... Useless toy. What exactly are you looking at? Empty space while you fly in circles and your guns point at your target? I guess it might be fun if you're a ganker trying to bump ships off gates or flying through asteroid fields dodging rocks out of boredom but other than that all I can say is ...really? But whatever, its ultimately a harmless new feature that doesn't break anything else so have at it.

That's all I've got for now as it's getting late. I CANNOT say enough just how bad I think these camera changes are. Thank whatever higher power you chose to believe in that you didn't push this live last patch as previously planned.

Again, I appreciate the hard work and attempt to add new things and try to improve upon existing features but sometimes you just need to either leave things alone that aren't broken or at a minimum work with a light touch. Don't ham fist it like this.

Daemun of Khanid

Hiljah
Foo Holdings
AL3XAND3R.
#64 - 2015-12-24 17:25:53 UTC
For the people saying up and down are backwards, you can change this in shortcuts, but they should be reversed by default.

First person mode needs a better target position indicator. Am I orbiting the target or is it right behind me?
Instead of having targets float around the edge, have a circle around the sight for 180 degrees, with an inner circle that indicates 90 degrees.

Also I can't orbit vertically, because pitch is only +/-90 degrees.

Also can I lock the camera behind me in orbit mode? If I zoom out even a little I can't tell what is left or right.

Nalianna
Perkone
Caldari State
#65 - 2015-12-28 10:07:21 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Still cannot get used to the up/down in first person being the opposite to almost every other game in first person.

You can change the button selection in shortcuts. I've assigned them the way I like, which is "inverse look" so UP is "stick forward" and nose down, DOWN is "stick back" and hose up. Works well. Can't wait for joystick support. In the meantime I'm trying to figure out how to program my Logitech gaming controller to do it. :)
Nalianna
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2015-12-28 10:18:51 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:

First-person mode:
+ Fun as hell to play with, outside of combat.
- Largely useless in combat, because of the Inability to look around at least temporarily. Even a pilot in an airplane can turn his head - why can't we, as capsuleers, do the same?
- Camera forces itself to Orbit mode when jumping through a gate or using an MJD. Having to keep setting it back to first-person mode is pretty annoying if for some reason I want to stay using it.

Pretty much agree with all of this. Yes, it's largely cosmetic but I'd like to see it useful in combat. The problem, as stated, is that you can't look around the cockpit. I fly flight combat sims a lot and all of the good ones allow you to do this. The controls for the ship should NOT be the same as the controls for the POV. Like with a game controller, one stick would control the ship, while the other controls the POV. Being able to look out the cockpit in any direction to observe the surroundings would be good.

And yes, having to set the camera mode back to first person after a jump is annoying, perhaps even dangerous, if you're jumping into a camped gate.
Nalianna
Perkone
Caldari State
#67 - 2015-12-28 10:22:09 UTC
Forrae Deren wrote:
Things I like:
~first person view, while mostly a gimmick, is pretty fun to toy with

I really wish this wasn't just a toy and I don't think it should be. I want to find a use for it as an enhancement to situational awareness in close combat. At the moment, if I stay with first person view I'm practically blind, reliant entirely on my overview.
Calvitus Thorn
Black Operations Command - Beta Aquilae Divison
#68 - 2015-12-29 01:09:13 UTC
First, it is cool, that you want to improve the camera settings. But, the zoom of the new camera is completly unrealistic:
If you zoom out in real space, your ship/object get's smaller, but the background stars don't move at all. So it was with the old camera. It gives you a feel of how big the universe is.
With the new camera the skybox [starbox?] is getting farther away. - You can actually see, that you are in a skybox-bubble. It makes the universe ridiculously small. So the background skybox must be linked and be kept to the position of the camera, not to the ship/object.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#69 - 2015-12-30 17:04:41 UTC
I've enabled the new camera on my alt and am still just getting used to basic use. Personally I really like the smooth zoom. But zooming in from the default distance is a little too extreme. One moment I'm so far away my ship is a pixel, the next I'm right up its tailpipe. I understand this is hard to balance when mouse of us have mouse wheel clicking active.

I expect as I get more used to this on my alt I'll be switching my main over to it permanently.
Megarom
Shiva
Northern Coalition.
#70 - 2015-12-30 19:38:44 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:

Also, those of you that say you feel motion sickness, could you please help me out and try to put a finger on exactly what it is that makes your stomachs tingle if possible?


I'm 97% sure the motion sickness is caused by brain being used to the camera rotating around the ship and now the point it rotates around is offset from it.

I know it's god awful to test, because if your brain is already used to the new way it won't feel it.

Having an indicator of the point in space that the camera rotates around might help.


I traveled in a pod for about 10 jumps using the orbit camera. When accelerating into warp the camera bobs about waaaay too much. Maybe the default zoom level shouldn't be all zoomed in because the bobbing isn't a problem when zoomed out.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#71 - 2015-12-31 13:28:54 UTC
Two things. First, is there any way we could get a third-person camera with a fixed position behind the player ship? (no panning, rotation, etc.)? Second, is there a way to permanently set or fix the zoom level?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

LordofWars
Fearful Odds
#72 - 2015-12-31 18:46:16 UTC
Camera speed slider made the camera very snappy thanks!

The Tactical camera is 10/10 awesome. Great for combat and FC'ing and damn near anything requiring a good "Battlefield" view.
Also the new selection method is awesome as well.

A few things I would love to see. These may be handled by a different dev team.

Having the ability to make waypoints for fleet members on grid. Kind of like a "go here marker that shows up for them"
Even a string of waypoints to create advanced maneuvers for fleets to follow.(Note: they would still have to select the point and approach it, it would not be automatic like an RTS)

Options to make my ships icon more visible(Color,size?) in ways that can help me distinguish myself in the melee at all times.
Annexe
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#73 - 2015-12-31 23:32:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Annexe
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I understand this is hard to balance when mouse of us have mouse wheel clicking active.


My mouse has free-wheeling scrolling, and it is absolutely amazing for fast zoom in/out, but that is also due to the precise zoom of the current camera system. The smooth zoom is really off putting, as when I stop scrolling the wheel, the camera continues to zoom.

Bring back original tracking and right-click panning.

FPV should resemble the pilot inside the pod, being able to look around the entire field from the centre on their ship, not a go-pro mounted to the front of the ship. Could even incorporate some visual overlays and tactical info in space
Capsuleer UI If this is how CCP envision a capsuleer, make it so.

Annexe

ITAI - VIP

"i will pop your wreck with faction loot"

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#74 - 2016-01-01 16:23:08 UTC
No idea why, but enabling the new camera screws up my audio.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Nicola Arman
Deep Maw Salvage
#75 - 2016-01-02 19:27:45 UTC
I've been having problems with the new camera.

After jumping through wormholes or stargates my camera zooms out to max distance after the jump.

The jump animation for stargates is consistently sideways and glitchy.

Undocking starts me off zoomed out at max distance as well. Also happens when switching ships in a POS. 'Look at my ship' does not work to zoom back in. Only scrolling.

I've only noticed this while in a pod but when I'm zoomed in on a pod the camera shakes violently, similar to the shakes you'd get when the tracking camera loses its mind.

My modules also disappear from the ship ui after switching from new to old camera. It requires a restart in order to get the modules visible and clickable again.

Also the Tracking Camera doesn't seem to have any functionality with the New Camera turned on. I just tested it with the feature turned off and it still doesn't want to work. :/ No tracking camera for me.... (edit: after resetting cache the tracking camera works using the old camera. Still not working for the New One)

I love the New Camera, it's bloody awesome, but it's not working properly for me. Anyone know of any fixes or tweeks that I can do to improve the experience? Anyone else having these issues?
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2016-01-02 22:04:53 UTC
Orbit Camera: as many other said before: please ensure I can left click stuff to turn the camera towards it. Decloaking peeps is hard enough as it is, can't expect me to double-click, ctrl-click and alt-click at the same time now can you?

First Person Camera: wasn't exactly what I was hoping for ..... would it be possible to get a hybrid between first-person and the old camera? Meaning: (1) lock the position so that the camera indeed stays aligned with my hull, following the ship around, but (2) allow me to zoom out so that I can see what's going on around me?

such a first-person view would be ideal for bombing runs, DScanning and setting up drag bubbles in-line with other objects; but I'd rather not lose track of my surroundings while doing it.

Ideally, one could simply instruct the (old) camera to look at his own ship, look at another object or (new feature) follow my own ship locked along its proper alignment. Zooming in far enough where one's own ship obscures vision could snap it into the first person beta cam but .... yea. Zooming out should be possible I think.
Civ Kado
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#77 - 2016-01-03 19:58:29 UTC
new camera is very laggy unless you are runnibng eve in 60 fps.

Recently upgraded my PC form a laptop that barely ran eve at 25 fps, and the new camera was extremely laggy. I now have a modern PC and run eve at 60 fps. New camera works perfectly, but still, you don't want to exclude other people who run eve at lower framerates.
Tiala Skye
The Tax Evasion Foundation
#78 - 2016-01-03 20:29:49 UTC
+1 for old school tracking cam option please

game breaker
Nyalnara
BamH1
#79 - 2016-01-04 06:21:37 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:
- You can achieve very similar shots to the old advanced camera set parent/interest stuff by simply performing a Look at (alt+click) and then Track (alt+shift+click). I have although noticed that there is an issue that the "Look at" entity can end up blocking the entity being tracked entirely, and I'll look into amending that.


Just going to point at the fact that alt+shift does switch keyboard layout from FR to ENG and back on most if not all french players gaming rigs. Because there are always a few games made with ENG keymap and the inability to switch it, most french people will have both keymap loaded. And i'm kind of sure that problem will happen for most of Europe. And pretty much every country which use accentuated characters (àéèë, etc), also non-latin characters such as cyrillic...



Alexis Nightwish wrote:
If you want to give us the ability to make sexy videos, include dedicated tools for making sexy videos. Don't interfere with our ability to play the game in the name of free marketing.

That. Been asked for so long...

elitatwo wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Tracking camera should have a UI button, not just a hotkey. Also, mine doesn't offset itself - the object I'm tracking is always obscured behind my ship rather than never :'(


What he said. I simply turned off the new camera because I needed the tracking cam at the time and I don't use the keyboard much unless it's CTRL+left-click or CTRL+SPACE.

Also, should you decide for whatever reason to change the default hotkey, it will change from an "On/Off" behavior to a "On/Still On" which then force you to go through the UI back to the default view.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.

Nyalnara
BamH1
#80 - 2016-01-04 06:32:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyalnara
Too much quotes, so 2nd post.

LordofWars wrote:
A few things I would love to see. These may be handled by a different dev team.

Having the ability to make waypoints for fleet members on grid. Kind of like a "go here marker that shows up for them"
Even a string of waypoints to create advanced maneuvers for fleets to follow. (Note: they would still have to select the point and approach it, it would not be automatic like an RTS)


No. If we're speaking about fleet fights, the anchor guy should be intelligent enough to move according to FC commands, and adding visual cues as to where to go will just confuse F1 monkeys and break formations because some of them will try to go there by de-anchoring. (Don't expect too much from F1 monkeys, there is a reason for the anchor guy.) If we're speaking about small gang, it tends to have non-standardized fleet setups, which means the FC (if there is one,which is frequently not the case, since people are more autonomous in that kind of setups) would need to draw several paths.

Also, since it would probably be available to everybody in fleet, just like broadcasts, it would mostly just be abused to draw d*cks everywhere. Just saying.

But if you really think this would be interesting, here is not the good place to speak about it. Start a thread in PFID and update your post with the links to the thread

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.