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Anti-Cloak that doesn't break the game
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Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2011-12-14 13:40:04 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Really? How would it break wormhole intel gathering? By making the covops be visible while it refuels?


They have to be mobile. Apperantly that is a bad thing

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2011-12-14 13:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Nariya Kentaya
Really? How would it break wormhole intel gathering? By making the covops be visible while it refuels?[/quote]
refuel? from WHERE? all this does, whetehr talking about fuel or ways to scan out cloaked ships, uis guarantee that ANYONE who uses a cloaked ship WILL DIE either the second they enter local and get scanned, or the second they run out of fuel and have to fly all the way out of hostile space and HOPE they survive long enough tor efuel.

*edit*= hit the wrong reply button, hehe
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-12-14 13:57:50 UTC
We have transports that can be brought in to act as refuelling bases, and I have no problems with ships being able to keep enough fuel to keep camping a system for, say, a few days if he wants to. The only thing I want to get to grips with, is the fact that AFK cloakers are exactly that, AFK. I've done it myself, all I do is get in a system and cloak up, and I never touch that client again until downtime. I think this is a silly part of the mechanic.

As for running out of fuel, well, if you manage to run out of f.ex a few days' worth of fuel (or whatever they would decide to allow if they were to do any changes to cloaking), I'd say you're playing it wrong and should prepare more.

The other alternative that I've seen in this forum, anti-cloaker probes, sounds OP to be honest. Just make the act of actually cloaking up in a system for an extended period of time something which requires vigilence from the cloaker, not just the guys in the system the cloaker chose, and I think that'll suffice.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#24 - 2011-12-14 17:57:54 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
We have transports that can be brought in to act as refuelling bases, and I have no problems with ships being able to keep enough fuel to keep camping a system for, say, a few days if he wants to. The only thing I want to get to grips with, is the fact that AFK cloakers are exactly that, AFK. I've done it myself, all I do is get in a system and cloak up, and I never touch that client again until downtime. I think this is a silly part of the mechanic.

As for running out of fuel, well, if you manage to run out of f.ex a few days' worth of fuel (or whatever they would decide to allow if they were to do any changes to cloaking), I'd say you're playing it wrong and should prepare more.

The other alternative that I've seen in this forum, anti-cloaker probes, sounds OP to be honest. Just make the act of actually cloaking up in a system for an extended period of time something which requires vigilence from the cloaker, not just the guys in the system the cloaker chose, and I think that'll suffice.


What next, a tool to boot afk pilots out of a station???

Seriously, AFK cloaking is NOT an issue. Let a pilot hang out in system for 10 days.... the pilots in that system need to learn how to cope with the constant pressence of danger!!! That's part of life in nullsec. If you can remove the cloaker, then you can remove all the danger in system... if you feel like you aught to be able to do this, then go back to hisec!!!!!!

"Oh... but hotdrops..." Perhaps this means there is a problem with hotdrops.... it is NOT a problem with cloakers!!!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-12-15 08:38:06 UTC
There is a constant pressure of danger, it's called "roaming gangs", and it involves "paying attention to eve online: a bad game". vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2011-12-15 14:29:20 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Seriously, AFK cloaking is NOT an issue. Let a pilot hang out in system for 10 days.... the pilots in that system need to learn how to cope with the constant pressence of danger!!! That's part of life in nullsec.


Yet it is completely ok for a player to travel to a system and be completely safe for the same ten days. Where is the presence of danger for that player?

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Averyia
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-12-15 14:47:25 UTC
Anti-Cloak that doesn't break the game is an oxymoronic statement. The real solution to AFK cloaking is to remove local or remove cloaked ships from local unless the pilot has posted something in local.

All warfare is based on deception and logistics. Battles and soldiers are secondary priorities.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-12-15 15:02:54 UTC
Or make the cloaker have to do something to remain cloaked for an extended period of time.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
1Of9
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2011-12-15 15:22:01 UTC
+1. like the base idea.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#30 - 2011-12-15 16:16:16 UTC
Lucien Visteen wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Seriously, AFK cloaking is NOT an issue. Let a pilot hang out in system for 10 days.... the pilots in that system need to learn how to cope with the constant pressence of danger!!! That's part of life in nullsec.


Yet it is completely ok for a player to travel to a system and be completely safe for the same ten days. Where is the presence of danger for that player?


Where is the sense of danger to the docked pilot?? Should there be a tool to boot people out of stations too???

A cloaked ship represents potential danger, nothing more until it decloaks. It's the potential danger you want to remove, that way you don't have to deal with the true dangers realized when the ship decloaks. Cloaking is an AWESOME Mechanic, in that it prevents people from completely removing all forms of danger from a system. By cloaking in a system, one character can insure there is always a potential danger to other characters. Hotdrops are the only tool that unbalances the scale... and they do so in more gameplay areas than cloaky campers. Cloaking is fine!!
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2011-12-15 17:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucien Visteen
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Where is the sense of danger to the docked pilot?? Should there be a tool to boot people out of stations too???

A cloaked ship represents potential danger, nothing more until it decloaks. It's the potential danger you want to remove, that way you don't have to deal with the true dangers realized when the ship decloaks. Cloaking is an AWESOME Mechanic, in that it prevents people from completely removing all forms of danger from a system. By cloaking in a system, one character can insure there is always a potential danger to other characters. Hotdrops are the only tool that unbalances the scale... and they do so in more gameplay areas than cloaky campers. Cloaking is fine!!


As low-sec and zero-sec players have said before. When you undock you consent to pvp, unconditional or not (see exscuses for ganking). Fitting that a player with a cloak on is excempted from that rule since he can effectively remove himself from danger for how long he pleases by traveling to a safe spot and cloak up.

A player is also doing pvp when he is in a station, unless I am horribly misinformed. They are just doing another form of pvp, so they too are in essence not safe even if they are in a station.Also it is their turf. Why should they not be entiteled to better security, atleast for the time their alliance is represented as the system owner.

But I agree there is nothing wrong with cloak modules, they are indeed awesome tools, and it is to my belief that they will contunie to create said fear, and be the awesoma tools that they are currently even if players will have a way to defend their space.

A big issue I have is that it is used wrong. One lone player should not be able to sit in space for how long he pleases while not worrying about his own safety.

I have a question for you. You and others againts cloak changes say that you have no way of getting to the players that dock up when a cloakie enters the system. If they had a way to deal with the cloakie do you think they would stay docked? Would not that then be a win-win for you? You want to prevent players from docking up and you want to pvp against others. By letting them hunt you you are getting what you want. is it not?

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#32 - 2011-12-15 17:45:31 UTC
Why do people insist on messing with and breaking cloaks, instead of looking at the cause of AFKing?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2011-12-15 18:19:48 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Why do people insist on messing with and breaking cloaks, instead of looking at the cause of AFKing?

I don't know about you or the others, but personally I'd rather get at the AFK part, than the cloak part.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2011-12-15 18:24:59 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why do people insist on messing with and breaking cloaks, instead of looking at the cause of AFKing?

I don't know about you or the others, but personally I'd rather get at the AFK part, than the cloak part.


yep, that afk thing is something I would like to see very mutch gone

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2011-12-15 18:36:11 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why do people insist on messing with and breaking cloaks, instead of looking at the cause of AFKing?

I don't know about you or the others, but personally I'd rather get at the AFK part, than the cloak part.

…and that part is simple: fix local, and AFK ceases to exist.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-12-15 18:48:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why do people insist on messing with and breaking cloaks, instead of looking at the cause of AFKing?

I don't know about you or the others, but personally I'd rather get at the AFK part, than the cloak part.

…and that part is simple: fix local, and AFK ceases to exist.

Fix, how?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2011-12-15 18:49:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why do people insist on messing with and breaking cloaks, instead of looking at the cause of AFKing?

I don't know about you or the others, but personally I'd rather get at the AFK part, than the cloak part.

…and that part is simple: fix local, and AFK ceases to exist.


Does this fix to local include a way to drive cloakers out of a system if they are found, or will players have to dock up since they can't catch them anyway?

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#38 - 2011-12-15 19:01:25 UTC
Lucien Visteen wrote:
Does this fix to local include a way to drive cloakers out of a system if they are found
Yes. Or, well, no, because the means to do so already exists and doesn't need to be included in the fix.
Quote:
or will players have to dock up since they can't catch them anyway?
Why would they have to dock up? They don't even have to do that now, so why would they have to when the situation is improved?
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2011-12-15 19:04:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Yes. Or, well, no, because the means to do so already exists and doesn't need to be included in the fix.


And what is the means to drive a cloaker out of the system that requires the same amount of effort as the cloaker uses to stay cloaked? I am honestly curious

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#40 - 2011-12-15 19:09:35 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why do people insist on messing with and breaking cloaks, instead of looking at the cause of AFKing?

I don't know about you or the others, but personally I'd rather get at the AFK part, than the cloak part.
Then suggest a package of changes to replace local, the reason for AFKing.

The fact that you can AFK and gain the same psychological effects without a cloak, points to the issue being elsewhere.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.