These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Factional Warfare revamp.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#21 - 2016-01-05 02:28:14 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
1. This is pretty much the CCP Plan - all out 4 way war. Not sure how it's going to be implemented, but we can reasonably expect to see some focus in early-mid 2016 (gotta get Citadels out and stable first).


Source? I'm genuinely interested.

See CCP Affinity's comment, third from the bottom on page 6:

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/Meetings/summit/CSM10-S1-D4.pdf
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#22 - 2016-01-05 03:16:03 UTC
exiik Shardani wrote:
once more any kind of rollback kill warzone, because so many neuts...


Yep it's a single shard. So sometimes you have to fight neuts. But this applies to every militia and is not a reason to reject rollbacks.

I just wonder what happened to ccp on this topic. Did they run into a technical difficulty or did they just drop the ball?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics
#23 - 2016-01-05 15:56:20 UTC
Cearain wrote:
exiik Shardani wrote:
once more any kind of rollback kill warzone, because so many neuts...


Yep it's a single shard. So sometimes you have to fight neuts. But this applies to every militia and is not a reason to reject rollbacks.

I just wonder what happened to ccp on this topic. Did they run into a technical difficulty or did they just drop the ball?


So just one more times. example: when you plex 15min small and during this time 3 neuts try kill you (and do not forget most often it is op ship or blob...) so with rewaps it takes you around 20-25min to finish small plex. how time will it be with rollbacks? around 45 min? to be honest then noone will plex, because is much more comfortable farm in null/hi with less risk.

the point of FW is to have targets in plexes, with rollbacks you will see two kind of plexing:
1) plexing of empty systems
2) plexing in blob to take system (and this one is not funny when other militia donot attack you)

rollbacks = less targets in fw, less activity and more waste times for militia members


btw. Iam in FW for good rewards, because I can wait in plex and someone come, if not or i lost ship, I just get good LP for buyi new one. with rollback i cannot often finish plex, so i can be in negative ISK balance... then is better for me be nullbear and just sometimes ride FW area and whore on militia content as neut....

sry for my English :-(
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#24 - 2016-01-05 17:03:20 UTC
exiik Shardani wrote:


So just one more times. example: when you plex 15min small and during this time 3 neuts try kill you (and do not forget most often it is op ship or blob...) so with rewaps it takes you around 20-25min to finish small plex. how time will it be with rollbacks? around 45 min? to be honest then noone will plex, because is much more comfortable farm in null/hi with less risk.

the point of FW is to have targets in plexes, with rollbacks you will see two kind of plexing:
1) plexing of empty systems
2) plexing in blob to take system (and this one is not funny when other militia donot attack you)

rollbacks = less targets in fw, less activity and more waste times for militia members


btw. Iam in FW for good rewards, because I can wait in plex and someone come, if not or i lost ship, I just get good LP for buyi new one. with rollback i cannot often finish plex, so i can be in negative ISK balance... then is better for me be nullbear and just sometimes ride FW area and whore on militia content as neut....


Sounds like my LP will be much more valuable then once all the farmers quit. What's the problem?
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#25 - 2016-01-05 18:38:11 UTC
Doing independent separate timers for each faction that is contesting a button is much more emergent gameplay. It means that when a system is being taken and there are objectives available to contest, you have that much more opportunity, within the space of a predictable time, to plant a defense on various fronts. This ENHANCES the experience instead of dumping on it, as bloated timers do.

When a player, or a blob, chases you out of a complex with less than 30 seconds on your end to go, what will encourage him to fight back more:

Watching from a distance, knowing his work is being undone.
OR
Watching what is his being taken from him, with the possibility of regaining his prior work in a whole way if he can respond within the appropriate time as a greater group or a better fighter.

It is not hard to see what this can encourage and what rollbacks do, which is only discourage. This is how you make farmers in to fighters, instead of farmers into whiners.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#26 - 2016-01-05 18:41:36 UTC
And whiners into quitters. I'm sure CCP does not want this, nor do I.

It is easy to mock sheep, but hard to share heart that makes a sheep into a lion.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#27 - 2016-01-05 19:53:16 UTC
Aves Asio wrote:
If i could just not get aggro'd by my own militia npc's in missions that would be great.

Last time i went in a mission site after a bomber i had to kill 2 webing frigs so i could get to the one that was pointing me, the bomber was unaffected ofc.


No. That would lead to people using alts in the opposing faction to complete FW missions.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#28 - 2016-01-05 22:33:01 UTC
exiik Shardani wrote:
Cearain wrote:
exiik Shardani wrote:
once more any kind of rollback kill warzone, because so many neuts...


Yep it's a single shard. So sometimes you have to fight neuts. But this applies to every militia and is not a reason to reject rollbacks.

I just wonder what happened to ccp on this topic. Did they run into a technical difficulty or did they just drop the ball?


So just one more times. example: when you plex 15min small and during this time 3 neuts try kill you (and do not forget most often it is op ship or blob...) so with rewaps it takes you around 20-25min to finish small plex. how time will it be with rollbacks? around 45 min? to be honest then noone will plex, because is much more comfortable farm in null/hi with less risk.

the point of FW is to have targets in plexes, with rollbacks you will see two kind of plexing:
1) plexing of empty systems
2) plexing in blob to take system (and this one is not funny when other militia donot attack you)

rollbacks = less targets in fw, less activity and more waste times for militia members


btw. Iam in FW for good rewards, because I can wait in plex and someone come, if not or i lost ship, I just get good LP for buyi new one. with rollback i cannot often finish plex, so i can be in negative ISK balance... then is better for me be nullbear and just sometimes ride FW area and whore on militia content as neut....


Rollbacks will mean fewer targets that just want to warp off from everything. It will mean fewer empty hulls and stabs. And yes it will mean people who want to farm will be better off going elsewhere. Of course you know there are some people in eve who actually like pvp. Some people even joined faction war in order to pvp. This change will be great for them.

Why? Because more people will warp into plexes knowing that the pilot in the plex has a reason to stay and fight. Having more people warp into plexes to fight will mean more people who actually like pvp will enter plexes and join faction war.

It's a win win for pvpers and there will likely be at least as many people running plexes and more "warfare" in faction warfare.

Its true that winning a plex will be a bigger accomplishment than it was before. So maybe ccp should award more vp for capturing a plex than they currently do. Before inferno plexes used to be worth 5xs as much vp.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Dr darkside
Naga's Be Trippin
#29 - 2016-01-05 23:39:22 UTC
exiik Shardani wrote:

2) plexing in blob to take system (and this one is not funny when other militia donot attack you)
.



And this doesnt happen now? have you ever been part of a system push?
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#30 - 2016-01-05 23:43:15 UTC
Dr darkside wrote:
exiik Shardani wrote:

2) plexing in blob to take system (and this one is not funny when other militia donot attack you)
.



And this doesnt happen now? have you ever been part of a system push?


signs point to no.
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2016-01-06 07:21:13 UTC
faction war sucks
Aves Asio
#32 - 2016-01-06 14:43:41 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Aves Asio wrote:
If i could just not get aggro'd by my own militia npc's in missions that would be great.

Last time i went in a mission site after a bomber i had to kill 2 webing frigs so i could get to the one that was pointing me, the bomber was unaffected ofc.


No. That would lead to people using alts in the opposing faction to complete FW missions.


They already do. I dont know why but they do.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#33 - 2016-01-06 18:44:52 UTC
Aves Asio wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Aves Asio wrote:
If i could just not get aggro'd by my own militia npc's in missions that would be great.

Last time i went in a mission site after a bomber i had to kill 2 webing frigs so i could get to the one that was pointing me, the bomber was unaffected ofc.


No. That would lead to people using alts in the opposing faction to complete FW missions.


They already do. I dont know why but they do.


I think you're misunderstanding the phenomenon Estella is describing. You're probably thinking about players who have characters in the different militias, and switch between them to farm on whichever side has the best profit margin. Someone has a Minmatar character they are hapilly farming away with, then Amarr pushes the warzone and gets to Tier IV, and the person then switches to their Amarr character. This happens all the time, and is pretty much impossible to prevent. Farmers gonna farm.

Estella is talking about using "standings tank" exploit to complete FW missions without risk. This was a problem before CCP changed the mission rats AI to fire on friendly militia pilots. I never knew this was going on at the time, but here's how it worked from what I've read. Imagine me out running Gallente FW missions. I warp in, agro all the Caldari NPCs with my Gallente character. I fly off into the distance, able to evade damage. Meanwhile, I warp in a Caldari alt character that the NPCs do not aggress. I use the Caldari character to kill the Caldari mission NPC, the mission for my Gallente character is complete. No risk, yet epic reward.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#34 - 2016-01-06 19:04:08 UTC
Wouldn't that character eventually lose standings towards that faction, or (since it's usually single target standings hits) would they be able to maintain a positive standing with missioning, or something, to keep doing this?
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#35 - 2016-01-06 20:01:26 UTC
No idea. Never did it, but the "standings tank" was widely exploited by farmers before it was fixed. I think CCP's solution was inelegant to say the least.

As a "quick fix" it did the job, but the negative impact has been ongoing for years. First, there's the immersion breaking quality of being shot by your own side purely because of a game mechanic. Second, it discourages pvp by providing a perverse disincentive from hunting mission runners to avoid being blown up by "friendly" npcs. Hopefully if CCP is looking at making changes to how standings impact FW players we can get them to look a this.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#36 - 2016-01-06 20:36:40 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
No idea. Never did it, but the "standings tank" was widely exploited by farmers before it was fixed. I think CCP's solution was inelegant to say the least.

As a "quick fix" it did the job, but the negative impact has been ongoing for years. First, there's the immersion breaking quality of being shot by your own side purely because of a game mechanic. Second, it discourages pvp by providing a perverse disincentive from hunting mission runners to avoid being blown up by "friendly" npcs. Hopefully if CCP is looking at making changes to how standings impact FW players we can get them to look a this.



After they made it easier to join FW with the last standings adjustment? Which I think became the reason people were able to easily jump sides. Not a chance, imo.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#37 - 2016-01-06 20:41:57 UTC
Exactly Rinal.

The real problem with mission rats is how they react to EWAR. Once you warp in and point the FW mission runner, they automatically switch to you. That is a problem.
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics
#38 - 2016-01-06 22:48:22 UTC
Cearain wrote:


Rollbacks will mean fewer targets that just want to warp off from everything. It will mean fewer empty hulls and stabs. And yes it will mean people who want to farm will be better off going elsewhere. Of course you know there are some people in eve who actually like pvp. Some people even joined faction war in order to pvp. This change will be great for them.

Why? Because more people will warp into plexes knowing that the pilot in the plex has a reason to stay and fight. Having more people warp into plexes to fight will mean more people who actually like pvp will enter plexes and join faction war.

It's a win win for pvpers and there will likely be at least as many people running plexes and more "warfare" in faction warfare.

Its true that winning a plex will be a bigger accomplishment than it was before. So maybe ccp should award more vp for capturing a plex than they currently do. Before inferno plexes used to be worth 5xs as much vp.



no, that is win just for neuts which parasites on militia content. FW members cannot dock, can be freely engaged by other militia and what about neuts in area? they kill militia member and then can easily dock in "militia station", or everywhere and cannot be pursuit in hisec...

sry for my English :-(
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#39 - 2016-01-06 23:06:35 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Aves Asio wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Aves Asio wrote:
If i could just not get aggro'd by my own militia npc's in missions that would be great.

Last time i went in a mission site after a bomber i had to kill 2 webing frigs so i could get to the one that was pointing me, the bomber was unaffected ofc.


No. That would lead to people using alts in the opposing faction to complete FW missions.


They already do. I dont know why but they do.


I think you're misunderstanding the phenomenon Estella is describing. You're probably thinking about players who have characters in the different militias, and switch between them to farm on whichever side has the best profit margin. Someone has a Minmatar character they are hapilly farming away with, then Amarr pushes the warzone and gets to Tier IV, and the person then switches to their Amarr character. This happens all the time, and is pretty much impossible to prevent. Farmers gonna farm.

Estella is talking about using "standings tank" exploit to complete FW missions without risk. This was a problem before CCP changed the mission rats AI to fire on friendly militia pilots. I never knew this was going on at the time, but here's how it worked from what I've read. Imagine me out running Gallente FW missions. I warp in, agro all the Caldari NPCs with my Gallente character. I fly off into the distance, able to evade damage. Meanwhile, I warp in a Caldari alt character that the NPCs do not aggress. I use the Caldari character to kill the Caldari mission NPC, the mission for my Gallente character is complete. No risk, yet epic reward.

Nope he is right, this is already a thing. (minmatar alt opens missions, amarr alt farms them so "theoretically" you can't aggress him)
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#40 - 2016-01-07 05:00:24 UTC
exiik Shardani wrote:
Cearain wrote:


Rollbacks will mean fewer targets that just want to warp off from everything. It will mean fewer empty hulls and stabs. And yes it will mean people who want to farm will be better off going elsewhere. Of course you know there are some people in eve who actually like pvp. Some people even joined faction war in order to pvp. This change will be great for them.

Why? Because more people will warp into plexes knowing that the pilot in the plex has a reason to stay and fight. Having more people warp into plexes to fight will mean more people who actually like pvp will enter plexes and join faction war.

It's a win win for pvpers and there will likely be at least as many people running plexes and more "warfare" in faction warfare.

Its true that winning a plex will be a bigger accomplishment than it was before. So maybe ccp should award more vp for capturing a plex than they currently do. Before inferno plexes used to be worth 5xs as much vp.



no, that is win just for neuts which parasites on militia content. FW members cannot dock, can be freely engaged by other militia and what about neuts in area? they kill militia member and then can easily dock in "militia station", or everywhere and cannot be pursuit in hisec...


There are various pros and cons to being in militia or not. For example neutrals don't get lp.

But the idea that everyone other than faction war players are parasites is not really the way eve works. It's a single server universe so you can't have just a pure war with anyone. The rest of the players can and will interfere and that is as intended.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Previous page123Next page