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MTU's with defensive capabilities.

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Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-12-07 18:32:50 UTC

More costly to be sure, but let the MTU's fight back.

Also how about a self-destruct. Once it get's below a certain amount of structure damage the self-destruct mechanism kicks in with a large directed burst of damaging energy and shrapnel that heads directly toward the attacker.

If that's too much the self-destruct would kick in upon destruction and simply destroy all the contents within.

How about an MTU that converts matter into shield energy. Destroying items within one-by-one to buff the shields. The more mass the object has the more shield energy it produces.

How about an MTU that sends you a notification that it's under attack if you are in game at the time.

Anyhow, I left one of these in the field for a very brief period in a lonely system (less than 5 minutes) when I docked up. It was destroyed by the time I returned (by a lone griefer who's killboard shows that this is his profession apparently).
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2 - 2015-12-07 18:56:23 UTC
The fact that you describe the person who killed your precious inert piece of space machinery as a 'griefer' says it all, sorry

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-12-07 19:05:13 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
The fact that you describe the person who killed your precious inert piece of space machinery as a 'griefer' says it all, sorry


Are you afraid of a little challenge?

Or not being rewarded for your bad behavior, other than the satisfaction of aggravating another player?

Roll
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-12-07 19:23:09 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Ageanal Olerie wrote:


Anyhow, I left one of these in the field for a very brief period in a lonely system (less than 5 minutes) when I docked up. It was destroyed by the time I returned (by a lone griefer who's killboard shows that this is his profession apparently).




Griefers are virtually non-existent in Eve, so you are likely mistaken about what happened to your MTU. It was most likely destroyed by a regular player enjoying the game in accordance with its rules.

Quote:

Are you afraid of a little challenge?

Or not being rewarded for your bad behavior, other than the satisfaction of aggravating another player?



The risk of someone taking your loot is an intentional part of the "cost" of an MTU. If you find this cost unacceptable, a solution already exists. It is known as a "Noctis".

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#5 - 2015-12-07 19:28:12 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
The fact that you describe the person who killed your precious inert piece of space machinery as a 'griefer' says it all, sorry


Are you afraid of a little challenge?

Or not being rewarded for your bad behavior, other than the satisfaction of aggravating another player?

Roll



If it's such a little challenge that could be overpowered quite easily, what's the point?


It seems like you would like to have both your cake (easier PVE ISK printing) and eat it (some enhanced token security).


As Surrendermonkey said, get a Noctis - or a friend in a Noctis.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#6 - 2015-12-07 19:31:45 UTC
Also, I fail to see any convincing and game-affecting reason why this should be brought into existence, apart from to assuage some feelings of loss that you may have incurred following the loss of you MTU. Is it a necessity? I'm not sure it is. Would you personally like this? It seems so.

You do realise that the other player was playing the game as it was intended, right?

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#7 - 2015-12-07 19:32:01 UTC
As an environmentalist and humanitarian, floating space debris is harmful to New Eden and greatly contributes to a more harmful society. Given I thanklessly work day in and day out to provide a public service helping those in need, my efforts to rid solar systems of the floating space junk known as MTUs and Mobile Depots should be applauded.

Ageanal, you can send me ISK to compensate me for my thankless efforts to rid new eden of MTUs at any time.
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-12-07 19:35:56 UTC


SurrenderMonkey wrote:


The risk of someone taking your loot is an intentional part of the "cost" of an MTU. If you find this cost unacceptable, a solution already exists. It is known as a "Noctis".


So should be the risk of getting your ass handed to you if you happen to pick on the wrong MTU.

An MTU that shoots back, or takes significantly longer to kill than expected, that alerts its' owner to the assault, or self-destructs and leaves you nothing but a suspect flag (or better a kill right), or even a blown up or seriously damaged ship, should be the cost of trying to shoot one out of the sky.

But when a lone player in a moderately equipped ship can take out an MTU in under 5 minutes, loot, and be docked up or out of the system before you return from a station run, you're just asking for all the reward for you and little to no risk, which is the hallmark of griefers and bullies.
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-12-07 19:38:27 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:

You do realise that the other player was playing the game as it was intended, right?


Famous last words of everyone who CCP has slapped down when they make the cowards of defenseless PvP rewards life a little more difficult.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#10 - 2015-12-07 19:46:20 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:

You do realise that the other player was playing the game as it was intended, right?


Famous last words of everyone who CCP has slapped down when they make the cowards of defenseless PvP rewards life a little more difficult.




Lol


Look, you may be surprised but virtually everything in this game is predicated on player-player interaction to one degree or another - including the mission rewards that you tirelessly harvest. Do you sell your loot? That's PVP. Do you perhaps refine the loot to build things, and thence sell them? PVP too.

Combat is just one (albeit important) facet of PVP in EVE - the fact that you spout glib oneliners like that doesn't necessarily mean that players are somehow breaking the Terms of Service when they come into your mission area and pop your MTU, or pop your cargo-expanded Iteron V in Uedema, or pop your Procurer while mining in Egghelende....


...CCP seems to agree too. Your petitions and cries of foul play will be roundly laughed out of Reykjavik.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2015-12-07 19:46:58 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:

But when a lone player in a moderately equipped ship can take out an MTU in under 5 minutes, loot, and be docked up or out of the system before you return from a station run, you're just asking for all the reward for you and little to no risk, which is the hallmark of griefers and bullies.




Define a moderately equipped ship. Do you mean a 300 DPS frigate, a 700 dps HAC, or a 1200 DPS battlecruiser? How much do you think these things should be able to fight off?

If you want to talk risk/reward, where is the risk in using an armed MTU?


You consented to PVP the moment you pressed the log in button. If you don't like the fact that other players want to shoot your space hoover, maybe you should guard it and shoot them?
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-12-07 19:56:22 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:



So should be the risk of getting your ass handed to you if you happen to pick on the wrong MTU.



That risk already exists in the form of a flag that allows you to shoot at them for blowing up your MTU.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#13 - 2015-12-07 21:46:42 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:


So should be the risk of getting your ass handed to you if you happen to pick on the wrong MTU.

An MTU that shoots back, or takes significantly longer to kill than expected, that alerts its' owner to the assault, or self-destructs and leaves you nothing but a suspect flag (or better a kill right), or even a blown up or seriously damaged ship, should be the cost of trying to shoot one out of the sky.

But when a lone player in a moderately equipped ship can take out an MTU in under 5 minutes, loot, and be docked up or out of the system before you return from a station run, you're just asking for all the reward for you and little to no risk, which is the hallmark of griefers and bullies.


First, the risk of getting your ass handed to you is completely up to the other people in the system. As soon as someone fires on an mtu, they become a valid target to everyone. Feel free to engage. Set up a tarp; see if you can create a bit of content.

Second, the penalty for using MTU is already high enough. This piece of equipment was designed to encourage more content creation. It is relatively expensive to be losing on a daily basis. It is very easy to probe down. It can be aggressed at suspect safety. Aggressing them used to trigger automatic retaliation from drones that were set fo aggressive. That should come back. It was the single greatest deterrent to afk mining/missioning that hisec has ever had.

Finally, "griefers and bullies." I have no further comment.
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-12-07 22:36:33 UTC

An additional idea for this....

Booby-trapped or decoy MTUs.

A Booby-Trapped MTU

These would be things that look and act like MTU's (even collecting loot, though just vaporizing it). They would have far more hit points, guns and they lock the attacking ship down, while sending out a distress call (assuming there aren't cloaked ships lying in wait). The guns may be survivable, though they would soften you up a bit. And if you do not break free of its hold before reinforcements arrive, have fun with some REAL PvP.

Can the contents of an MTU be scanned? I don't know. If so, the unit could return a false signature of contents of the things that it has faux-scooped. Or perhaps even more enticing things the owner has programmed it to display.

A Decoy MTU.

Ultra cheap fake MTUs, which may or may not have some of the features that help disguise its true identity. These would be destroyed fairly easily, and while they wouldn't drop anything, they would still leave you with the Suspect Flag.

Let's shake things up and make them a bit more interesting for the MTU hunters.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#15 - 2015-12-07 22:51:37 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:

The guns may be survivable, though they would soften you up a bit. And if you do not break free of its hold before reinforcements arrive, have fun with some REAL PvP.






I have to say that that is a bit rich. On the one hand, you would like to pin the aggressor down with absolutely no risk to the MTU holder, and on the other you suggest that PVP as presently structured and processed through the aggression mechanics is not real PVP? So this is basically training wheels for carebears, right?


Come on...the 1st of April is nearly six months away

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#16 - 2015-12-07 23:03:42 UTC
The entire point behind the mtu was that it did work for you at the expense of being very susceptible to other players messing with it. They were meant to increase player interaction occurrences just like the one you're describing.

The alternative is that you salvage the loot yourself in a noctis (or a combat ship if you want).

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Helios Panala
#17 - 2015-12-07 23:16:44 UTC
You've got to accept that people can destroy your MTU, it's the price you pay for the convenience of having your loot auto-gathered for you.

If it's not a price you want to pay fit a thrasher with some tractor beams, salvagers and a MWD and go manually clear the site after you're done. It doesn't really take very long most of the time, it's even quicker if you splash out on a Noctis.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#18 - 2015-12-07 23:49:50 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:


Let's shake things up and make them a bit more interesting for the MTU hunters.



If that's the goal, have you considered, I dunno, fitting up a ship and shooting at them in lieu of chain-posting horrible F&I threads?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2015-12-08 00:45:56 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:

More costly to be sure, but let the MTU's fight back.

Also how about a self-destruct. Once it get's below a certain amount of structure damage the self-destruct mechanism kicks in with a large directed burst of damaging energy and shrapnel that heads directly toward the attacker.

If that's too much the self-destruct would kick in upon destruction and simply destroy all the contents within.

How about an MTU that converts matter into shield energy. Destroying items within one-by-one to buff the shields. The more mass the object has the more shield energy it produces.

How about an MTU that sends you a notification that it's under attack if you are in game at the time.

Anyhow, I left one of these in the field for a very brief period in a lonely system (less than 5 minutes) when I docked up. It was destroyed by the time I returned (by a lone griefer who's killboard shows that this is his profession apparently).



Let me see, you left a valuable asset unattended in space and somebody shot it. Seems like things are working as intended.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#20 - 2015-12-08 00:57:27 UTC
Get out in space and defend your stuff. Problem solved.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

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