Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It should be telling that, instead of trying to present a strong gameplay argument in favor of OGB, your first move out of the gate is basically hostage-taking.

Anyway, if you could be so kind as to contract me your stuff on your way out, I'll just thank you ahead of time.

I trained mine in via command ships and not T3......awwww yeah.

Although now would be a good time to review the fittings of command processors etc, perhaps create a low slot version or move it to a rig as well as review the hulls in general. And the subsystems for those poor T3D folks.

CCP has mentioned the intention of removing attribute implants. Perhaps leadership or other boosting implants help.

For small gang, having a good command pilot is a bonus once OGB is gone. I flew T2 and T1 command fit ships small gang, and it was make or break. Mentality is a part of it. For an on grid booster, survival and fleet support is your focus, not killmails and damage. I would heavy tank, focus on positioning to force the targets out of position if they wanted to get me, etc. Since commands are active modules, it also means they can be neuted out.

The concept CCP stated was to make commands an AoE which also means supplimental command ships are easier, making it potentially harder to break the chain. In addition, they said they were looking at debuff style warfare links. Either way, combined with large grids, I really cannot find anything disadvantageous from a gameplay perspective. Most people forget that a battlecruiser can fit a warfare link. In my first forays into pvp, I flew a command link drake with my friends. When sansha incursions started, it was a prophecy. With drifters, I plan the same once the ogb is done.

If people cannot use an alt for combat, that means combat has become more engaging. More engaging means more subs. Want proof?

http://img3.mmo.mmo4arab.com/lol/2014/09/18/league_of_legends_2014_world_championship_620.jpg

Instant gratification is a beautiful thing. When there is meaning to a win and loss, it becomes more important to the player. Eve is in an extremely unique position of executed right.

We have a wide striation of ships. Stuff from newb to the supercaps. If all have relevance in a fight, that means instant gratification, but also goals to work for. The composition and makeup of a fleet should be pyramidal. With many at the bottom, and a few at the top. This allows all to get in on the action, but at the same time, roles to shoot for. That does not exist in eve. Eve is a puddle for composition. Here is the one ship doctrine and done. Train X and Y and then you can fly with us instead of tiered training.

So anything that puts onus on the players is good. It puts goals and incentive on newbs, and puts incentive on veterans to include them as foot soldiers. Pawns on the chessboard. Instead, we have tokens on a checkerboard right now.

This disadvantage is the ONLY command ship you'll actually see boosting is the damnnation. Everything else will be alpha'd off grid in a heartbeat.

Seriously, they're going to be headshot the minute grid loads because the difference links makes is so substantial to do otherwise would be simply stupid.

I'm pretty happy by now over those announced changes. I'll just keep flying them ongrid, and other people won't use theirs offgrid anymore. Good times ahead :D

Quite right, it was numbers out of my arse, but it is a very valid business mentality. Hence why I gave the Cadillac example. Somebody at General Motors said "Okay, we got to just forget catering to our existing and focus on the actual market place and new customers" Result is in less than ten years, the Caddy nameplate, and buick in just a few short years, went from being a joke nobody bought into a highly competitive and respected name again.

The basis of the discussion is what I cited before, how while active accounts are down, player retention is actually up with an increase in unique subscription IDs. Reputation is everything. Eve needs to be known as the game for fleets and big fights. isn't a should, it is a MUST! The sandbox is importance, but eve's scale is the real beacon. Unfortunately, as with B-R, people saw it and learned this was the exception and not the norm.

You said what I consider a dirty word. DPS. The whole purpose of command ships is to modify fleets. Yeah, you lose ONE dps ship a bit, but with my boosts for example, even on a T1 battlecruiser effectively reduces the entirety of the entire other fleet's effective DPS. Toss in Debuff, and that is even more insane.

Prime example, A heavy hero tank ecm burst scorpion with smartbombs and the spectrum breaker. DPS is nil, but when half of the red's drones disappear off the field or are not applied, plus the time I have held up an entire fleet and their neuts is worth a hell of a lot more than the dps myself and a couple others would bring. It also can mess up their logistics, etc for even more effective damage. That is why they are called force multipliers.

In addition, the DPS loss isn't very much depending on how they are played. Single link ships do just dandy. Increased disruption range is a thing of beauty.

My dream for eve? Have all the EFT dps mean diddly squat. DPS application is all that should matter. So what if you got 2x the spreadsheet damage vs my fleet if the applied dps is only half thanks to good FC, fleet composition and pilot skill.

The tears will flow..

"How will I ever PvP again?"

You dont NEED links to kill people. You dont NEED links to outsmart or outfit your opponent. You dont NEED links to run PVE sites.

Comes down to 2 arguments:

"But MAH isk ticks"

and

"You really want me to commit to a fight, boosters and all? Why cant i keep using my risk averse I-win button?!"

Remove links entirely. Everyone is on equal footing then. You can claim the small gang needs them to fight the big gang. You dont. You use strategy and misdirection. Ive been soloing without links for a few years now without much issue. Ive killed people who were linked, when i was not. Ive out manuevered and killed gangs of 15-20:1 without links.

People are just too scared to commit and be innovative in their fits/fleets/doctrines.

Im glad OGB are being dumpstered, its been a long time coming.

So why remove the links all together though. If it is a counterable and vulnerable force multiplier, is that not good? Like you said yourself, it can affect, but it does not in the whole make or break a fight. Eve combat is kinda unique in that there are lots of things that give players an edge. the OGB is just an issue with things like sitting outside a pos and the like. While counterable, it is still disengaging combat. That is my issue. Not that it is some magic invincible, but it is disengaged.

I loved on grid boosting and the evasive flight tactics and positioning needed to keep alive...

http://i.imgur.com/XO9CfoP.jpg

This isn't always the best argument to start off with. It indicates the concern is money and not game health.

"But the PCU!"

:getout:

You know what the best part about this is? BC/BS doctrines just got a healthy relative buff furthermore, armor also got an indirect buff.

Why? The only ships that can now run links effectively, and have decent ability to stay alive for a decent time in fight, are command ships. And on top of that, armor CS can fit extra links withou massively gimping their fits compared to shields.

Most CS won't do well in a fleet of cruisers, either too big or too slow. So what's left for frigs/cruisers? New command destroyers and T3s. CD can currently only use 1 link, and potential for extra is very low due to fittings for the link and processor. T3s also can only fit one link, but they have more flexibility for extra links. Fortunately, the link subsystem is defensive, meaning they make significant sacrifices in tank compared to their line ships.

There will be some odd ways to try and keep links out of harms way by sitting on the edge of the new massive grids, but all of those methods will keep them on grid, vulnerable, and more importantly, disruptable.

I'm very curious to see how the meta shifts for this. Especially for those micro-gangs that use links/implants/boosters/magic to outdo their opponents so well.

I don't think CCP has mentioned changing any attributes or stats. So far I've only heard that off grid is gone. Not sure if it's necessary to change the stats atm. At least not until the meta settles.