Player Features and Ideas Discussion

A small feature/balance request.


With the ever-larger blobs of supercaps roaming around, its becoming harder for smaller entities to keep moons worth anything, so why not have the rights for moon mining tied to sovereignty, and the activity of players in the system

That would tie player activity into the sov as well as the benefits you get from owning a system.

Of course, you might have to rebalance the moons for this, but its an idea

/Kacer

it wouldnt remove it, it would add a conflict driver.

people whould have to own the sov to own the moon, meaning they cannot just blob the tower with 200 dreads and move along, they would have to capture nodes, capture the system etc.

remove the R32/64s from low / npc null.

An excellent question.

If moongoo production was tied to Sov, then it would limit the conflict drivers by making it easier for a large blobbing empire to capture a single system rather than grind through the POSes mining. Plus, more critically: what happens to NPC null and Low Sec? You would have to set up a separate mechanic to deal with Sov null versus all others - and that is not efficient.

Why remove high value moon goo from NPC null or Low Sec? If you are going to remove any part you may as well remove all of it. The current set up is best as far as keeping the mining separate from system ownership. If you tie moon mining to system ownership, then you auto-magically make the bigger richer.

Edit to add: now, perhaps you are the owner of a small Null Sec system, I can understand your frustration if you have PL or CFC or whomever the big bully is with a POS on the only R64 moon in your sov system. Guess what, nothing prevents you from removing that POS except for your fear of their retaliation. Here is a suggestion: keep your ear to the ground, get some friends to help you, and when that big nasty is occupied somewhere else, hit them below the belt and take that moon for yourself.

But you see the real problem with tying moon goo production to system ownership is that it will perpetuate and further fuel the renter empires.

You don't deserve what you can't take and defend

Just a random thought.
At this point in the game there is little that anyone including CCP can do to remove the large alliances and their impact on nul and the entire game why? Simple really no matter what you do to sov or anything that surrounds sov the current large alliances will always hold an advantage that smaller groups will never be able to overcome.

CCP has made a valiant effort to revitalize nul and the current work has done a little in that regard. But ultimately it will fail because large alliances. To overcome the problem with large alliances they will have to remove them from the game and I for one do not see that happening anytime soon.

NPC space can continue as it is, as they're not claimable, something similar might be considered with factionwar.


As for the sov indexes, go look at regions like Scalding pass, delve, querious, ismother, basically any region that is NOT occupied by the CFC. I dont envy the CFC their moons in their space, because they're actively keeping the ADM up, but its not so in all regions.

But a coalition that only has supercaps holding all the moons in a region is fine because no one can fight them, while they dont have any sov themself, does that seem fine?

Anyone with enough supercaps that they dont have to worry about sov, but only take the moons

Puh-lease.

Moons change hands - sure. Fought over in any meaningful way??? Just stop. There are no epic or even slightly interesting struggles over moon ownership in sov null. There have been a few conflicts over lowsex moons here and there, but that's about it. Static passive resources could drive conflict, but being static they have become monopolized. The concept was initially good, but the super mega coalition meta has moved eve past moon goo conflicts. It's time for moon goo to evolve into something dynamic and intersting.


I think the best quick answer currently available is the PI model. Anyone who wants in can get in. No one can monopolize it. Market price will drive interest in the various goos. Things will balance out nicely. Goo harmony will prevail. This route would break the monopolies but it wouldn't cause much if any player vs player interactions. It would have to be distributed much like PI where there is a little everywhere and no real concentration in any one spot. -1.0 true sec of wh space would be problematic if moon goo were introduced there. Keep moon POCOs seperate from SOV mechanics.

A think a more interesting (and harder to pull off) moon goo option would be to make the goo deplete and be discovered on a different moon. Take away the current static nature. To have this work there would need to be no way to do a data pull and find the location of the various new deposits. Folks would have to go out and look for it. (yeah!!! - people in space instead of looking at a 3rd party data sorting program). If you're a smallish group holding SOV in a few systems - the once per week (twice per week, every day - whatever) scan of you moons to see if something wonderful happened while you were sleeping would be a small chore that could possible pay out big. If you're a mega alliance controlling vast swaths of space - well, I hope you only recruited honest folk that are more than willing to tell you about the delicious deposit that just popped up in their little corner of your empire. A deposit being mined full time would last 6-8 months before it depletes. Respawn would need to be totally random (not bound by constellation or region) and only detectable by in space scanning.

I think the second option (though more difficult for everyone) lends to much more interesting player to player interactions. So many choices for the grunt who finds a deposit. It would make lifelong friends and enemies at every turn of a deposit. Monopoly would be exchanged for depth and interesting game interactions.

I think a couple of things.

Foremost - I think the T2 market would survive just fine. In 07 when there wasn't much isk in the game and there wasn't any invention in the game - the T2 BPO monopolies made T2 stuff crazy expensive (I paid almost 700 mil for a hulk, a fleeting webber was 14 mil and cheaper than the T2 option, a DCII cost 20 mil). With so much isk in the game right now, there is no need to even worry slightly about T2 prices while the market adjusted. The market would adjust, players would adjust - if there is anything the eve player base has proven to excell at - it's adjusting. So take your 'but what a bout the markets' and shove it where the sun don't shine - it's a garbage argument to play on fears. I'm not buying, so don't bother trying to sell it to me.



But why would anyone risk a fleet for a moon that has a high chance of not paying for their losses even if they win?

You nailed it! No large entity would. It wouldn't be worth it to monopolize them. (Funny side note - you should stop playing the game with an abacus and go out and have some fun. Your risk based approach to the game is making it stale.) That's the beauty of it all. It would be a total windfall to the small guys on a per moon scale. For coalitions - It would be too much continuous work on a large scale to be worthwhile. It transition from risk free, effort free lazy isk cotrolled by large coaltions to a resource that will be controlled by the markets and demand. Big and lazy won't bother, but small lean and hungry will.

The biggest plus is that some grunt scanning the moons finds a nice deposit - he has options. Tell mamma coalition and gain some favor? Tell just the corp and squeeze it for local improvement on that level. Tell your closest buddy, roll up an alt corp and start sneaking it out for personal wealth. Go for option 3, but go it alone and tell no one. There is just a lot of interesting options.

I think it's funny how in all of the multitude of moon goo threads, there are less than 5 groups in eve that argue that it's just perfect as is and literally make sheet up to protect their assets.

That's 4 things I think.