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Amarr Militia: The downfall of a once great army

Author
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#101 - 2016-01-04 23:02:31 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
I'd take this opportunity to gloat, except it's no different anywhere else. TLF is home to Sani Sabik, Sansha and other scum, to the point where I barely find opportunity to undock lest I rub shoulders with them. I've never bothered to hide that I am not a solo pilot of note, not particularly fond of it nor good at it. I am far better in a fleet, taking up specific roles and excelling at them. This is now a truly rare thing, as even my own alliance opens up fleets to these... creatures.

It is a pity. We all know these proxy wars have no real impact on anything of note. Who holds which systems means nothing but who makes money off which government and it's for all intents and purposes mere bloodsport. A place where individual pilots and even organizations can only achieve one real thing, inspiring dirtside hearts and minds that might actually achieve something in the long run.

Yet, standards and principles are thrown out the window so you can have one more canister full of crew on the field to sacrifice to the bloodthirst, in the hopes that a system will tilt one way or the other, chasing some non-existent reward at the end of it all. Why? Why does PIE throw principles to the wind, flying alongside the scum of the Empire? Why does Ushra'Khan fly with Sani Sabik and worse? For blips on a map to turn a different color, creating no change at all in the actual systems themselves?

Are these things truly worth shredding whatever tattered remains of ones spirit one has left?

It is sad to see, whether it be among enemies or among ourselves, that people are so hungry for a victory that means nothing that they'll make the victory mean nothing by throwing all principle to the wind to achieve it. I would rather lose this pointless proxy war honestly with principles and honor intact rather than win because I was willing to sacrifice being Matari.

It speaks rather ill of New Eden that this is a truly rare position to take.

It's a somewhat sad state that we have hit, I don't think that's deniable at this point. Who's to blame for it? Don't ask me. Rubbing shoulders with undesirables isn't the most pleasant experience but blame that on the sheer number of enemies the Empire has. Even in these mock battles, these live fire war games the actual point of the TLF, the 24IC, the FDU and the state protectorate is lost. You know our history, our freedom was largely backed by alterior motives. Think the Gallante really cared about our freedom? Think the Jove did? If you didn't come to the same conclusion I pegged you wrong. We were pawns then, now we stand on our own with pawns fighting our enemies for us as well as with us. You don't have to like who your with, you don't have to trust them either. When the rest of the republic wakes up well have something. Until then we have place holders.

What exactly is this "sacrificing being Matari" you speak of? We are some of the most resourceful people in the cluster. What do resourceful people do? Use what's around them to their advantage. We use catalysts in fleets, we use Caldari designed missiles, our logistics wings generally use Guardians for armor logistics, yet even using logistics ships designed by our enemies were not being true to ourselves by using outside resources namely people. Our freedom itself was won by acting upon another race's fighting the empire. Why is it so wrong now?
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2016-01-05 02:24:22 UTC
You forgot to mention the modernised Breachers, Cyclones and Typhoons, which incorporate bits of Gallente and Caldari technologies into their design.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#103 - 2016-01-05 02:28:54 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
You forgot to mention the modernised Breachers, Cyclones and Typhoons, which incorporate bits of Gallente and Caldari technologies into their design.

Exactly, though I don't really disagree with the sentiment I'm just confused for lack of better words
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#104 - 2016-01-05 08:15:43 UTC
If you think it is Matari to tolerate and ally with slaver scum worse than the Imperials, over a proxy war, things have indeed become dire.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#105 - 2016-01-05 08:27:25 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
If you think it is Matari to tolerate and ally with slaver scum worse than the Imperials, over a proxy war, things have indeed become dire.


You don't really have a choice, talent is so thin across the cluster that you take whatever you can get.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#106 - 2016-01-05 08:57:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mizhara Del'thul
Talent for what, though? This is not some fight for survival where the end justifies the means. It's a bloodsport with no end-game. Nothing to be gained other than killmarks. The only thing you can really do as a capsuleer in the proxy wars is potentially inspire or affect the hearts of the baseliners to stir into action, and setting the example that the faithful of the Empire should happily embrace anyone from Sansha through Sabik is rather an iffy proposition, and it certainly isn't an example I'd like to set for my own people.

Again I pose the question, what justifies this tolerance of vile scum? What is gained from tarnishing oneself such with the association? The opposing capsuleers will never run out of crew, isk and ships. They're all replenishable. The territory gains you nothing we don't already have, as the staircase has been established even before the proxy wars started.

Which end justifies these means?

I'd even argue that there is more to be gained from taking a stand, not tolerating these things, and perhaps even losing as a result. It sends a far stronger message to the cluster that Matari will not sink to the depths of our enemies over mere bloodsport, but retain our principles and ways and still stand strong even if our enemies throw all of theirs to the winds over a fake war with no real prize.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#107 - 2016-01-05 09:23:09 UTC
Please spare me the political rhetoric, I'm smarter than that.
Skyweir Kinnison
Doomheim
#108 - 2016-01-05 09:43:37 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:


Again I pose the question, what justifies this tolerance of vile scum? What is gained from tarnishing oneself such with the association? The opposing capsuleers will never run out of crew, isk and ships. They're all replenishable. The territory gains you nothing we don't already have, as the staircase has been established even before the proxy wars started.

Which end justifies these means?

I'd even argue that there is more to be gained from taking a stand, not tolerating these things, and perhaps even losing as a result. It sends a far stronger message to the cluster that Matari will not sink to the depths of our enemies over mere bloodsport, but retain our principles and ways and still stand strong even if our enemies throw all of theirs to the winds over a fake war with no real prize.


This is well said. I think all one can do is uphold the nobility of your own cause - hopefully in association with a few true comrades of like mind. Almost all wars attract venal scum into both irregular and even regular forces. There is little to be done save take care of one's own conduct and honour.

Because there is no ultimate territorial victory in this CONCORD designed 'war', the only achievement available to warriors is to be true their own beliefs and perhaps uphold the noblest tenets of their society - in whatever small way.

Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#109 - 2016-01-05 09:50:51 UTC
Del'thul is right.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#110 - 2016-01-05 10:00:18 UTC
Why do you fight then? If victory is impossible, why not do something else?
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#111 - 2016-01-05 10:04:24 UTC
Bread and Circus, again. The answer is not that hard to see after so many years..
Skyweir Kinnison
Doomheim
#112 - 2016-01-05 10:32:59 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Why do you fight then? If victory is impossible, why not do something else?


This is the dilemma of life, surely? For the baseliner, the question is "why do anything, we are all worm food in the end." Death defines them, and all that matters must be the journey itself rather than the end.

Capsuleers have escaped death (to all intents and purposes) yet the same applies - we shape ourselves by the journey, not the victory. Moments of camaraderie, a noble and skilled opponent, the abstract satisfaction of upholding, even momentarily, the honour of our nation.

For myself, I find great inspiration and comfort from the writings of an ancient Gallente philosopher, who once started an essay on the meaning of life by forcing one to examine the question: "Why do I not commit suicide?" He likens life to the myth, common among all civilisations, of a great and influential man condemned to eternally pointless labour by pushing a stone up a mountain only for it to plummet back to the beginning just as he nears his goal (many variants of the task exist). Removing all question of a god or higher purpose, he challenges us to argue reasons for life in the face of evidential cruelty, wantoness, misery and guaranteed oblivion.

His answer: broadly, it's all absurd. That moment when everything goes so badly wrong, where one's decision making goes madly awry or the circumstances spiral out of control - yet despite defeat and humiliation we find ourselves laughing like a madman with the sheer delight of experience - that's the truth of life. If we laugh at the absurdity of life with a few select friends, either at the moment, or warm and safe later on, life finds meaning in that moment and the cruelty too, can be faced with laughter. Moments in the journey, mist in the wind, a sunset just as the clouds break.

I believe one has to be free to really enjoy laughter, which is why I believe in and fight for Liberty. Control, autocracy, and conformity are, to me, strait-jackets for misery. If there is one marvellous compensation in my poorly skilled pilot career, it is that I have made a couple of Caldari officers laugh.

Of course, if one believes in a god and/or a higher, external purpose that guides the universe, these are inspirations to be greater than oneself. Someone more faithful than I can answer how that might work for them.

Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.

Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#113 - 2016-01-05 10:48:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
Autocracy means self-government. You believe that it is oppressive.

And this is the first time that I've heard that you need to believe in a greater power to better yourself.

Your entire diatribe is an excellent example why humane sciences are an utter piece of schlock. They rely on abstracts to develop their theory, which by definition makes them incapable of offering a practical solution.
Skyweir Kinnison
Doomheim
#114 - 2016-01-05 11:13:14 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Autocracy means self-government. You believe that it is oppressive.

And this is the first time that I've heard that you need to believe in a greater power to better yourself.

Your entire diatribe is an excellent example why humane sciences are an utter piece of schlock. They rely on abstracts to develop their theory, which by definition makes them incapable of offering a practical solution.



And this is why the State must be amused.

Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.

Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#115 - 2016-01-05 11:18:10 UTC
And now, for an actual answer?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#116 - 2016-01-05 11:23:17 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Autocracy means self-government. You believe that it is oppressive.

And this is the first time that I've heard that you need to believe in a greater power to better yourself.

Your entire diatribe is an excellent example why humane sciences are an utter piece of schlock. They rely on abstracts to develop their theory, which by definition makes them incapable of offering a practical solution.

Colonel Nieyli!
Gallentean agressors still occupy almost half of our homeworld, and they have started current militia war to try to occupy our Black Rise as well. These hypocrites have no right to apply word "oppressive" towards us.

And if they do - it means talking with them is useless. They are just brainwashed by gallentean propaganda dolts, refusing to use logic and facts. Simply shoot them down to save the world from such inconveniences.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#117 - 2016-01-05 12:36:09 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:

Your entire diatribe is an excellent example why humane sciences are an utter piece of schlock. They rely on abstracts to develop their theory, which by definition makes them incapable of offering a practical solution.


If wisdom is only afforded to live practitioners, then better to get rid of philosophers.

The things we read I swear...
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#118 - 2016-01-05 12:37:34 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:

Your entire diatribe is an excellent example why humane sciences are an utter piece of schlock. They rely on abstracts to develop their theory, which by definition makes them incapable of offering a practical solution.


If wisdom is only afforded to live practitioners, then better to get rid of philosophers.

The things we read I swear...


Wisdom comes from experience. So yes.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#119 - 2016-01-05 12:44:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
You should try books someday.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#120 - 2016-01-05 12:47:27 UTC
Didn't you hear? Books are for burning.