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Amarr Militia: The downfall of a once great army
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Arrendis
TK Corp
#81 - 2015-12-03 13:28:54 UTC
Tamiroth wrote:
That's unhealthy and outright scary. I had no idea that the Minmatar do this... Thought they either bury or burn their dead, like most civilized people do. And what if there's a plague?

...People are weird.


Burying the dead only limits which scavengers get the remains. And burning... that's supposed to be civilized? There's energy bound up in your meat - no mysticism there, either, I'm talking pure caloric content. It's going to be released one way or another. Life itself is a process by which chemical compounds are broken down and converted into waste heat, with the (for us) useful side-effect of fueling self-propagating organisms. Burning the body only streamlines the process, efficiently producing heat, with none of the side effects we rely on.

As for diseases, that's been answered already. It's not like we do this stuff in the middle of population centers and invite all the vermin in town.
Tamiroth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#82 - 2015-12-03 13:46:21 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
And burning... that's supposed to be civilized? There's energy bound up in your meat - no mysticism there, either, I'm talking pure caloric content. It's going to be released one way or another. Life itself is a process by which chemical compounds are broken down and converted into waste heat, with the (for us) useful side-effect of fueling self-propagating organisms. Burning the body only streamlines the process, efficiently producing heat, with none of the side effects we rely on..


Hm, won't technically using one's ashes as organic fertilizer also count as "fueling self-propagating organisms" and/or "return to nature"?
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2015-12-03 14:09:18 UTC
Tamiroth wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
And burning... that's supposed to be civilized? There's energy bound up in your meat - no mysticism there, either, I'm talking pure caloric content. It's going to be released one way or another. Life itself is a process by which chemical compounds are broken down and converted into waste heat, with the (for us) useful side-effect of fueling self-propagating organisms. Burning the body only streamlines the process, efficiently producing heat, with none of the side effects we rely on..


Hm, won't technically using one's ashes as organic fertilizer also count as "fueling self-propagating organisms" and/or "return to nature"?



Burning breaks the bonds in our biochemical molecules and release that energy as waste heat, the same bonds which can be used as energy to fuel metabolism and many other important chemical processes. Ashes are very inefficient fertilisers. Corovid droppings are better.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#84 - 2015-12-03 14:29:16 UTC
Tamiroth wrote:
Hm, won't technically using one's ashes as organic fertilizer also count as "fueling self-propagating organisms" and/or "return to nature"?


The ashes have already had most of the calories consumed - that's what fueled the fire that reduced them to ashes, after all. The more efficiently you convert complex organic molecules to carbon and released energy, the less effective the results are for.. well, more or less anything but being carbon. To nurse the maximum return from the energy stored in the molecular bonding, you want as inefficient a process as is feasible, and when it comes to energy release, chemical corrosion (ie: cellular digestion) is about the break-even point. For maximum 'how much life do you get from X molecules', you probably want anaerobic life, but then you don't get complex forms, and for our purposes as a species... we're kinda biased toward complex forms.
Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#85 - 2015-12-03 16:29:02 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Anyanka Funk wrote:

I believe they threw her naked corpse on the side of a plateau to rot and feed the wilderness.

It would've of been much more respectful to at least drain her blood and consume her flesh. Giving her death a purpose instead of being thrown away like trash.


Why yes, it's disrespectful to return the body back to nature so that it can contribute to the natural cycle of birth, growth and decay. Just so you know, we do not just toss bodies onto the side of a plateau. There are rituals to put the spirit to rest, a moment of silence and other things.

Our practice also doesn't have us risking a prion or a blood disease either.

I see why Diana calls you stupid all the time.

People are not always bound to a planet. People with diseases including prions, and especially Sabik's Sepsis, are not fit for consumption or blood donation.
The blood should be drained and certified clean as well as the body. I wouldn't expect you to know how cleaning a carcass is done or why. Do you even farm at all?

Our religion is very clean. The Blood Raiders pride ourselves in our cleanliness. Even Omir Sarikusa, in his video debut, is taking his shower in clean fresh blood.

The carcasses of your dead stink up the country side. I know very well. I'm from Hek V! And when food is scarce.. Guess what? The poor minmatar eat the dead.
Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#86 - 2015-12-03 16:37:38 UTC
Anyanka Funk wrote:
The carcasses of your dead stink up the country side. I know very well. I'm from Hek V! And when food is scarce. Guess what? The poor minmatar eat the dead.


Where'd you buy that lie, Funk? Even Jita rumor-sellers don't stock such garbage.

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2015-12-03 16:46:19 UTC
Anyanka Funk wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Anyanka Funk wrote:

I believe they threw her naked corpse on the side of a plateau to rot and feed the wilderness.

It would've of been much more respectful to at least drain her blood and consume her flesh. Giving her death a purpose instead of being thrown away like trash.


Why yes, it's disrespectful to return the body back to nature so that it can contribute to the natural cycle of birth, growth and decay. Just so you know, we do not just toss bodies onto the side of a plateau. There are rituals to put the spirit to rest, a moment of silence and other things.

Our practice also doesn't have us risking a prion or a blood disease either.

I see why Diana calls you stupid all the time.

People are not always bound to a planet. People with diseases including prions, and especially Sabik's Sepsis, are not fit for consumption or blood donation.
The blood should be drained and certified clean as well as the body. I wouldn't expect you to know how cleaning a carcass is done or why. Do you even farm at all?

Our religion is very clean. The Blood Raiders pride ourselves in our cleanliness. Even Omir Sarikusa, in his video debut, is taking his shower in clean fresh blood.

The carcasses of your dead stink up the country side. I know very well. I'm from Hek V! And when food is scarce.. Guess what? The poor minmatar eat the dead.


Because the food is scarce. I see grotesque practices like that in the more impoverished and practically abandoned parts of Black Rise, but I do not go ahead and label the Caldari as cannibals for that few exceptional instances of desperate cannibalism.

Why don't you go walk in some other planet where food is more plentiful?

The carcases of our dead only stink our traditional sky burial sites for just a couple days anyway. The scavengers will clean out the bones, consume the organs and suck the marrows, leaving scraps for the bacteria. Once that is done, all that is left are cleaned out marrow-less bones and those things do not have an odour. We know, because we also collect the bones of our dead after a few days of the sky burial, pound them into gravel, mix that into milk or gruel or whatever, depending on availability, and leave that for the second round of scavengers. The only thing we leave to remember the dead by are the chronicles of their lives, heirlooms and, for some of the Clans, the hair.

Also, had you missed the detail of having our dead returned to their Clan or their traditional burial grounds? We spare no expenses for that sort of thing. Many of the Republic worlds have funerary services that will ferry the corpses to their families and Clans, and such businesses are also available in Federation space. If such a service is not available, either a passer-by kin will collect the corpse and arrange for the corpse to be returned to family or Clan, or we will cremate them if such measures are deemed infeasible and return the ashes to the family or Clan, if able.

Us Sebiestor take the matter of recovering bodies very seriously.

On the note of screening, there is always that chance that the screening will give you false negatives. A point zero five percent error rate still means that there are errors, albeit rare. Otherwise, Sabik's Sepsis would had been eradicated generations ago.


A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#88 - 2015-12-03 16:48:46 UTC
Wtf? How did this go from the Amarr Militia to Minmatar eating their dead? And no, we don't eat our dead.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#89 - 2015-12-03 17:21:07 UTC
Neph wrote:
Anyanka Funk wrote:
The carcasses of your dead stink up the country side. I know very well. I'm from Hek V! And when food is scarce. Guess what? The poor minmatar eat the dead.


Where'd you buy that lie, Funk? Even Jita rumor-sellers don't stock such garbage.

I grew up on Hek V, not in Jita. But I wouldn't doubt the slum lords in Jita use low grade biomass in their products just to keep prices low... If I recall some Quafe products even use low grade biomass accrued from ship wrecks.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#90 - 2015-12-03 18:18:16 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Wtf? How did this go from the Amarr Militia to Minmatar eating their dead? And no, we don't eat our dead.



Welcome to the IGS.

I hear this sort of thing (going off on tangents, not cannibalism that is) is sadly all too common on the GalNet.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Tamiroth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#91 - 2015-12-03 19:30:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tamiroth
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Burning breaks the bonds in our biochemical molecules and release that energy as waste heat, the same bonds which can be used as energy to fuel metabolism and many other important chemical processes. Ashes are very inefficient fertilisers. Corovid droppings are better.


Arrendis wrote:
The ashes have already had most of the calories consumed - that's what fueled the fire that reduced them to ashes, after all. The more efficiently you convert complex organic molecules to carbon and released energy, the less effective the results are for.. well, more or less anything but being carbon. To nurse the maximum return from the energy stored in the molecular bonding, you want as inefficient a process as is feasible, and when it comes to energy release, chemical corrosion (ie: cellular digestion) is about the break-even point. For maximum 'how much life do you get from X molecules', you probably want anaerobic life, but then you don't get complex forms, and for our purposes as a species... we're kinda biased toward complex forms.


Uh... I'm almost speechless. I don't even know in which way. You explain why it is more efficient for bodies to decompose to give back their stored energy to the ecosystem in a logical, scientific manner, befitting a Sebiestor as I know them. And yet the fact that this tradition survived to the present day speaks about the spiritual connection with the nature so deeply ingrained into your culture that this should put any gallentean eco-activist to shame.

You helped me understand important things about your people, so thank you.

(Disclaimer: decaying corpses gnawed upon by the scavengers are still disgusting).
Arrendis
TK Corp
#92 - 2015-12-03 20:14:43 UTC
Might I request that, since it exists, this discussion be moved to the thread about funerary practices? Just so people know where to look for it.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#93 - 2015-12-03 21:16:45 UTC
Those Wacky 24th Imperial Crusaders.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#94 - 2015-12-03 23:35:30 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Those Wacky 24th Imperial Crusaders.


Wacky? Or whacky? How often do they run around slapping one another?
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2015-12-04 01:36:10 UTC
Tamiroth wrote:


Uh... I'm almost speechless. I don't even know in which way. You explain why it is more efficient for bodies to decompose to give back their stored energy to the ecosystem in a logical, scientific manner, befitting a Sebiestor as I know them. And yet the fact that this tradition survived to the present day speaks about the spiritual connection with the nature so deeply ingrained into your culture that this should put any gallentean eco-activist to shame.

You helped me understand important things about your people, so thank you.

(Disclaimer: decaying corpses gnawed upon by the scavengers are still disgusting).


Us Minmatar are always a pretty odd bunch as compared to the rest of the cluster. We have all this technology, we have this understanding in science, mathematics and engineering, we, or at least the Thukkers and the Sebiestors, are the leaders in the field of mechanical engineering, advance materials applications and nanotechnology and yet we cling to our traditions and the old ways.

For some of us we even merge the old ways with the new ways. My Clan for example extends our beliefs in spirits to our machines, treat them as equals. It all started with the reliance on technology to keep us alive in the wastes of Skarkon II, especially considering how unsuitable the water is for agriculture and how we keep getting superfine dust storms on a seasonal basis. Then somehow, along the way, we decided to treat our machines as kindred. Our Fenrir, which ferried us when we travelled the stars and whose husk became our shelter on this hostile planet became 'Sister Fenrir'. The water desalination system became the 'Moisture-giver'. It became custom to spend an hour engaging our vehicles in communion before we move out into the badlands during our salvage ops. Fabrication of new machines became a hallowed ritual and newly-manufactured or recovered and/or refurbished machines were name-marked and treated as individuals in their own right. The reactor of Sister Fenrir became more than just a reactor and became the center of one of my Clan's history-myth sagas. Even the brewing and partaking of coffee became a daily communal ritual.

The spirit of Sister Fenrir lives on in her Heart (reactor), sheltering us from the lung-rotting dust-winds of the devil-planet, etc. etc. I do not really recall the details.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Kador Ouryon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2015-12-04 03:00:36 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Tamiroth wrote:


Uh... I'm almost speechless. I don't even know in which way. You explain why it is more efficient for bodies to decompose to give back their stored energy to the ecosystem in a logical, scientific manner, befitting a Sebiestor as I know them. And yet the fact that this tradition survived to the present day speaks about the spiritual connection with the nature so deeply ingrained into your culture that this should put any gallentean eco-activist to shame.

You helped me understand important things about your people, so thank you.

(Disclaimer: decaying corpses gnawed upon by the scavengers are still disgusting).


Us Minmatar are always a pretty odd bunch as compared to the rest of the cluster. We have all this technology, we have this understanding in science, mathematics and engineering, we, or at least the Thukkers and the Sebiestors, are the leaders in the field of mechanical engineering, advance materials applications and nanotechnology and yet we cling to our traditions and the old ways.

For some of us we even merge the old ways with the new ways. My Clan for example extends our beliefs in spirits to our machines, treat them as equals. It all started with the reliance on technology to keep us alive in the wastes of Skarkon II, especially considering how unsuitable the water is for agriculture and how we keep getting superfine dust storms on a seasonal basis. Then somehow, along the way, we decided to treat our machines as kindred. Our Fenrir, which ferried us when we travelled the stars and whose husk became our shelter on this hostile planet became 'Sister Fenrir'. The water desalination system became the 'Moisture-giver'. It became custom to spend an hour engaging our vehicles in communion before we move out into the badlands during our salvage ops. Fabrication of new machines became a hallowed ritual and newly-manufactured or recovered and/or refurbished machines were name-marked and treated as individuals in their own right. The reactor of Sister Fenrir became more than just a reactor and became the center of one of my Clan's history-myth sagas. Even the brewing and partaking of coffee became a daily communal ritual.

The spirit of Sister Fenrir lives on in her Heart (reactor), sheltering us from the lung-rotting dust-winds of the devil-planet, etc. etc. I do not really recall the details.


Despite the obvious ideological differences between us it's pleasant to see someone else treating machines as partners rather than tools.

What fills the soul? Something that guides a lost child back to it's parents arms. Or waves that dye the shores of the heart gold. A blessed breath to nurture life in a land of wheat. Or the path the Sef descend drawn in ash. In the wake of fire.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2015-12-04 03:16:59 UTC
Kador Ouryon wrote:

Despite the obvious ideological differences between us it's pleasant to see someone else treating machines as partners rather than tools.


We sometimes banter, snark and ****-talk each other.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#98 - 2015-12-12 12:06:34 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
[
Seriously, Kimmie is like a machine on the fritz - every time her mind attempts to analyze something

it does.

Unlike yours, primitive scum.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2016-01-04 21:50:42 UTC
I am in agreement with Lady Snow.

The 24th is a shadow of what it once was. It is rife with mercenaries, heretics and opportunists. Few pilots are there to serve the needs of the Empire or the Will of God. CONCORD is at the heart of this failing, it is their system. I, for one, do not see the Republic as a threat to the Empire and the paltry systems beyond the Bleaks are not a worthy addition. Better to aim our knights at the real enemies of God and Empire than waste our resources chasing escaped slaves and petty tribals.

I also have returned to support the needs of the Kingdom.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#100 - 2016-01-04 22:14:03 UTC
I'd take this opportunity to gloat, except it's no different anywhere else. TLF is home to Sani Sabik, Sansha and other scum, to the point where I barely find opportunity to undock lest I rub shoulders with them. I've never bothered to hide that I am not a solo pilot of note, not particularly fond of it nor good at it. I am far better in a fleet, taking up specific roles and excelling at them. This is now a truly rare thing, as even my own alliance opens up fleets to these... creatures.

It is a pity. We all know these proxy wars have no real impact on anything of note. Who holds which systems means nothing but who makes money off which government and it's for all intents and purposes mere bloodsport. A place where individual pilots and even organizations can only achieve one real thing, inspiring dirtside hearts and minds that might actually achieve something in the long run.

Yet, standards and principles are thrown out the window so you can have one more canister full of crew on the field to sacrifice to the bloodthirst, in the hopes that a system will tilt one way or the other, chasing some non-existent reward at the end of it all. Why? Why does PIE throw principles to the wind, flying alongside the scum of the Empire? Why does Ushra'Khan fly with Sani Sabik and worse? For blips on a map to turn a different color, creating no change at all in the actual systems themselves?

Are these things truly worth shredding whatever tattered remains of ones spirit one has left?

It is sad to see, whether it be among enemies or among ourselves, that people are so hungry for a victory that means nothing that they'll make the victory mean nothing by throwing all principle to the wind to achieve it. I would rather lose this pointless proxy war honestly with principles and honor intact rather than win because I was willing to sacrifice being Matari.

It speaks rather ill of New Eden that this is a truly rare position to take.