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Scam?

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LoBlo Fet
Terra-Formers
#21 - 2011-12-19 22:09:46 UTC
Akita T wrote:
I hope you're not suggesting to re-compare ISK wallet amount and auto-cancel all orders that go underfunded every time ISK is taken out of the wallet, because that would be murder on the server database-workload-wise AND could very well lead to some legitimate orders dropping off on legitimate traders that play it a tad bit too close.


No, that's not what I'm suggesting.

Akita T wrote:
First off, having that additional limitation in place when PLACING the order will not do much good - all the player has to do is send out the ISK after placing the order.


yeah, your right. The problem would still be there.

OllieNorth wrote:
I think the only reasonable way to limit this scam would be to allow wallets to go into the negatives. I know that people would still do it on throwaway alts, but at least SOME of the offenders would be weeded out. I honestly don't feel that it needs revision, I think it is fine and at worst a "Welcome to EVE" mechanic.


You already hit the nail on the head with negative wallets. A player would train up margin trading, buy a bunch of orders he/she can't afford and go negative. Put the products into a corp hanger or cargo container and then delete the character with the real/main character scooping up the goods later (in a freighter or from the corp hanger). It would be even a bigger exploit.

Guess there isn't a real good solution except to just be on the lookout for this scam. Welcome to Eve for the new players out there.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#22 - 2011-12-19 22:36:59 UTC
I personally like the fact scams exist.
It gives a painful first-hand lesson to greedy and/or hasty and/or stupid people about just how greedy, silly or in a rush they are.
We can only hope they'll be able to recognize that as a lesson and remember it for next time.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#23 - 2011-12-20 11:24:20 UTC


Quote:

Or at least select "instant" instead of the 3 months (should not have you pay broker fees, but I am not 100% sure about that, so just use simple order instead).


You are correct here, no broker fee if immediate dropdown is used in advanced sell menu.

Btw you could theoretically scam the scammer by giving them enough ISK to complete the transaction and selling them the items the put the buy order for :) You'd have to guess their margin trade level though.
Cendres Ange
Frontier Venture
#24 - 2011-12-20 11:57:18 UTC
Scams are a part of EvE and fun as well. Got scammed as a newbie for almost all the isk I had. I didnt like it much at the time, but I said to myself, "lesson learned" and more carefully watch with what I do with my isk now. EvE is all about PvP, outwitting your opponent as previously stated. But the arena for this outwitting could be in space, on the market, in a corp or wherever. Its a part of the game, do not remove it. Best way to avoid falling into a trap, is to look out for the signs.

Improve sorting of orders

Custom window presets
Mu-Shi Ai
Hosono House
#25 - 2011-12-21 06:29:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mu-Shi Ai
I've never understood why people think this is a "scam" (in the sense of something that should precipitate a rules or mechanics change). You don't have any right for a buy order to still exist after you purchase a bunch of goods expecting to sell to it. Every trading opportunity in EVE is ephemeral. It just so happens that somebody figured out a way to use a working game mechanic to trigger that ephemerality on demand.

Margin Trading is very useful for purposes that aren't this "scam." Anybody who buys in markets where items trickle in slowly will understand its importance right away.

For example, my current buy orders are valued at ~1.2bn ISK, but I only currently have ~75m ISK in escrow. With my current trading scheme, I maintain a constant, healthy flow of buying and selling. But the buys/sales themselves are a lot slower than in a hustle & bustle hub like Jita. Margin Trading allows me to spread my ISK over more products because I don't have to drop the whole value in escrow immediately. It means I don't have to weigh out whether it's worth it for me to dedicate X amount of ISK on a certain item just because it buys a little more slowly than I'd like. I'm currently covering the actual value of my buy orders with cash on hand, but the beauty of Margin Trading in my current scheme is that I wouldn't need to have it covered, since the item-by-item trading velocity is so slow that the buy orders just pay for themselves as they go. I can invest in many more products than I'd otherwise be able to, because I don't have to commit the entire amount to any individual buy order.
Haruhi Hime
The Brony Herd
#26 - 2011-12-22 06:21:23 UTC
OllieNorth wrote:
I think the only reasonable way to limit this scam would be to allow wallets to go into the negatives. I know that people would still do it on throwaway alts, but at least SOME of the offenders would be weeded out. I honestly don't feel that it needs revision, I think it is fine and at worst a "Welcome to EVE" mechanic.

As far as being a fresh take, I meant that it was nice to see someone fall for this but not have to buy up all of the units, instead of the usual "I spent 100 million isk to buy all of these and all I got was a sell order".


And you were almost there, if ccp allowed negative wallets, and people had throwaway alts, they'd be scamming themselves :)
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