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[December] Remote Rep Tiericide and Falloff

First post First post
Author
Medria Lennelluc
Know your Role
Pandemic Horde
#41 - 2015-11-27 06:41:38 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
At 100km they are going to do 22% of current rep. You'll need 5 of those to be as good as a single one.
Overall it's a major nerf - the maximum efficiency stays the same, range is nerfed (you have to be closer to give full reps, especially shield), efficiency is nerfed (if you aren't close, you're ****, especially with armor).


From what I can gather, at 100km it's more like 2%, not 22%
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#42 - 2015-11-27 06:44:42 UTC
how do you envisage this changing the meta in large gangs, where plenty of logi will likely mean that SOMEONE will be at the right point to land reps instantly on the new primary

I'm seeing this as an indirect nerf to small gangs......

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#43 - 2015-11-27 06:52:13 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:

I'm seeing this as an indirect nerf to small gangs......

I'm seeing this as a rather direct nerf to small gangs because Le Blob doesn't care about long cycles because with 100500 logis you are already staggering reps by virtue of human factor, because blob logi fits are largely unaffected (5-1 basi is exactly the same as it was), because who cares about 80% rep efficiency when you have 300% overrep, but now you can rep up that drooling moron that MJDed in the middle of the enemy fleet with a couple dozen logi of yours.
Tethys Luxor
Beyond Frontier
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2015-11-27 07:02:02 UTC
It's very difficult to judge how these changes are going to change the meta. Logi V is a now an even more powerful skill.

Is it possible to add a small adjustment to T2 logi drone requirements ? It's on the very bottom of skill queues. The multiplicand is relatively high and all drone size are getting the T2 with lvl 5 only.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2015-11-27 07:08:49 UTC
Tethys Luxor wrote:
It's very difficult to judge how these changes are going to change the meta. Logi V is a now an even more powerful skill.

Is it possible to add a small adjustment to T2 logi drone requirements ? It's on the very bottom of skill queues. The multiplicand is relatively high and all drone size are getting the T2 with lvl 5 only.


How is Logi V going to be even more powerful? The range bonus? Right now Logi V does more with so many required logi V fits to get that extra rep. The range bonus is fairly good, but at the ranges they operate, not sure if make or break fighting, well, not before crunching numbers. All I can say is being a logi is more fun and what CCP said about wasted reps will be true. Staggered cycles are going to be more important, woot.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2015-11-27 07:11:41 UTC
Jack Hayson wrote:
[The amount repaired per second didn't change.


Actually, the amount repped per second is anywhere from 'virtually unchanged' to 'cut in half' depending on where in your falloff you are.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2015-11-27 07:14:27 UTC
Tethys Luxor wrote:
Logi V is a now an even more powerful skill.


As opposed to being the 'if you don't have it, fly the T1 support cruiser' skill it's been for any serious logi-work?
Rek Seven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2015-11-27 07:24:47 UTC
What about T3 logi fits? Don't they need adjusting or will they have the same rep power and cap stability after the changes?
Solarus Explorer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2015-11-27 07:31:07 UTC
+1 for cutting down the range of frig logi. I would suggest cutting down the range of cruiser logi further as well, to give brawlers some chance of catching logi in small gangs.

Overall though i'm in favour of removing logi completely from the game. Let ships undock and die in pvp, they shouldn't have the safety of a bunch of logi ships to save them all the time.
Tethys Luxor
Beyond Frontier
Pandemic Horde
#50 - 2015-11-27 08:11:28 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:

How is Logi V going to be even more powerful? The range bonus? Right now Logi V does more with so many required logi V fits to get that extra rep. The range bonus is fairly good, but at the ranges they operate, not sure if make or break fighting, well, not before crunching numbers. All I can say is being a logi is more fun and what CCP said about wasted reps will be true. Staggered cycles are going to be more important, woot.


There is now even more gap between logi 4 and logi 5 (and it was HUGE before). I'm not comparing the old and new logi mechanic here.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2015-11-27 08:29:51 UTC
Tethys Luxor wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:

How is Logi V going to be even more powerful? The range bonus? Right now Logi V does more with so many required logi V fits to get that extra rep. The range bonus is fairly good, but at the ranges they operate, not sure if make or break fighting, well, not before crunching numbers. All I can say is being a logi is more fun and what CCP said about wasted reps will be true. Staggered cycles are going to be more important, woot.


There is now even more gap between logi 4 and logi 5 (and it was HUGE before). I'm not comparing the old and new logi mechanic here.


I admit, it is getting closer and closer to those annoying group of skills where I-IV is utterly useless. It's closing in on adv. spaceship command every change
Rmage Gemmell
Unrelated Intentions
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2015-11-27 08:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rmage Gemmell
Orca Platypus wrote:
Rmage Gemmell wrote:
So let me get this straight .... a Scimmy/Scythe/Basi/Osprey can now pump shield HP at 100k ?

You don't see a problem here with warp distance being at 150k and the small guy trying to separate gangs ?

Logi frigs that can repp at 40+ k. Lovely.

Don't you think you should set that warp to distance at more than 200k now ?


At 100km they are going to do 22% of current rep. You'll need 5 of those to be as good as a single one.
Overall it's a major nerf - the maximum efficiency stays the same, range is nerfed (you have to be closer to give full reps, especially shield), efficiency is nerfed (if you aren't close, you're ****, especially with armor).

Even though I've done MOST of my pvp in a logi, I don't really care, as long as the other guy is hit equally hard. This change doesn't really give any side any more advantage than N+1 would usually give.


When you get a range increase, that is not considered a nerf.

A couple of cycles of RR can save you, even if it is just 1 cycle.
What this means is that the range of engaging on grid against superior numbers has just decreased (a lot), and that Scimmy that is burning for his buddy can pump shields and make his buddy hold out, even at 100k.
Forget about separating on grid if a Scimmy is present.

Medria Lennelluc wrote:
Orca Platypus wrote:
At 100km they are going to do 22% of current rep. You'll need 5 of those to be as good as a single one.
Overall it's a major nerf - the maximum efficiency stays the same, range is nerfed (you have to be closer to give full reps, especially shield), efficiency is nerfed (if you aren't close, you're ****, especially with armor).


From what I can gather, at 100km it's more like 2%, not 22%


No, he's right, it's about 23-25% from their own graph, with the 20% point being reached at 106.
Diamond Hunter01
Great White North Productions
#53 - 2015-11-27 08:31:26 UTC
Can we get a Logistic Drone Bay for LOGI ships. Yes thats right a seperate drone bay from the regular drone bay so LOGI may carry a full compliment of Logistic drones and be capable of feilding DPS drones as needed.
PlantythePottedPlant
Colorful Fruit Chews
Wild Geese.
#54 - 2015-11-27 08:45:32 UTC
Rmage Gemmell wrote:
Orca Platypus wrote:
Rmage Gemmell wrote:
So let me get this straight .... a Scimmy/Scythe/Basi/Osprey can now pump shield HP at 100k ?

You don't see a problem here with warp distance being at 150k and the small guy trying to separate gangs ?

Logi frigs that can repp at 40+ k. Lovely.

Don't you think you should set that warp to distance at more than 200k now ?


At 100km they are going to do 22% of current rep. You'll need 5 of those to be as good as a single one.
Overall it's a major nerf - the maximum efficiency stays the same, range is nerfed (you have to be closer to give full reps, especially shield), efficiency is nerfed (if you aren't close, you're ****, especially with armor).

Even though I've done MOST of my pvp in a logi, I don't really care, as long as the other guy is hit equally hard. This change doesn't really give any side any more advantage than N+1 would usually give.


When you get a range increase, that is not considered a nerf.

A couple of cycles of RR can save you, even if it is just 1 cycle.
What this means is that the range of engaging on grid against superior numbers has just decreased (a lot), and that Scimmy that is burning for his buddy can pump shields and make his buddy hold out, even at 100k.
Forget about separating on grid if a Scimmy is present.


For the logi frigates it's a straight nerf. Both armor and shield slope pretty steeply past the current range, and the fact that at 15km it's 90% effective already for shields is kind of sad.

Optimal of 4k for small remote shield boosters is silly, and even though they *can* rep at 40, that's like saying you *can* shoot your blasters at 20k with void. It won't do anything, but if it makes you feel better have at it.
Phaezen Orti
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#55 - 2015-11-27 08:56:06 UTC
Diamond Hunter01 wrote:
Can we get a Logistic Drone Bay for LOGI ships. Yes thats right a seperate drone bay from the regular drone bay so LOGI may carry a full compliment of Logistic drones and be capable of feilding DPS drones as needed.


Can't see that happening as logi vs damage vs ewar drones is a meaningful choice
Acobar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2015-11-27 09:04:58 UTC
How about getting logi on killmails, CCP Fozzie?
Aisha Shimaya
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2015-11-27 09:14:37 UTC
A good change with a nice incursion nerf on the side.
Medria Lennelluc
Know your Role
Pandemic Horde
#58 - 2015-11-27 09:48:13 UTC
Aisha Shimaya wrote:
A good change with a nice incursion nerf on the side.


Doesn't really nerf incursions, at least not on any meaningful level.
Lewich
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2015-11-27 09:57:30 UTC
Why is T2 large remote rep is using 40 more PG now? WHERE'S my damn bonus PG on Guard/Oneiros? Basi/Scimi have their fitting adjusted to new shield reps. Why is armor doesnt?Evil
X
Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2015-11-27 10:06:49 UTC
Not quite sure how I feel on these changes. On one hand it should change how logi works in small gangs forcing both armor and shield logi closer, meaning the kite meta will be harder (maybe). On the other hand, we've had numerous instances where the guy was at like 90km from the logi and had gotten a scram on an Orthus, etc. but he was just too far out of rep range and we only had AB logi. Now he'll catch reps, albeit at like 20-25% of max effiiciency, but hey reps are reps (and that's the part I'm worried about)

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