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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Navigating from hi-sec to specific null-sec region via WHs.

Author
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#1 - 2015-11-21 06:27:45 UTC  |  Edited by: The Larold
Life-long hi-sec carebear here getting ready to brave null-sec for some exploration. There are a couple of regions out in null I want to check out first, and my intention is to use wormholes to get out to null, avoiding some of the big camps likely to be en route. (I'll also be using a CovOps frigate, properly equipped and skilled, but I don't trust my untested abilities to bust through gate camps yet, because I've never tried it even once.)

I could use some help figuring out how to do the following; can't quite figure out how to use DOTLAN for this.

I'm going to pop into the first WH I can find in hi-sec, and from there, start scanning down other WHs that lead to null-sec. I was going to hop into null, find out what system I'm in, and then call up a route from that current system into a known system in the territory I'm aiming for to see if I ended up way the heck on the other side of the universe, and should go back into the WH looking for a shorter route.

When I go to dotlan and click the region map, it only shows me one or two regions on the screen at a time, and I have to scroll. What I was hoping to find is a big map at a high level that names every region, and possibly shades each region a different color. That way if I end up in region X, I can glance at the map and quickly see how far X and Y are apart.

Or should I just set a destination to a target system and see how many hops the auto-pilot shows?

I've never been inside a womhole or nullsec, so I would love to hear precise technique of how experience folks use WHs to get from hi-sec to _a specific_ destination in null-sec.

Thanks!
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-11-21 06:51:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
I know nothing of DOTLAN so I won't answer that.

As far as finding a specific nullsec region, Thera is usually the quickest way. Check out this site which usually has up-to-date info on current connections to Thera and find something close to the region you're looking for. If you open it in the in-game browser it will even show how many jumps to the closest high-sec connection.

It's possible to find a specific region without Thera but it will be much more tedious.

Edit for clarity: Thera is a large wormhole system which, unlike other wormhole systems, has stations. At any given time it has several static connections to high, low, and null sec systems, making it a great way to get around quickly.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-11-21 07:22:24 UTC
Well, an explorer can find plenty of w-holes spawning all over the place.

The trick is taking your time to find a w-hole that connects high sec to null sec. Then you won't have to spend a lot of time in w-space searching for a route going into null sec or back to high sec.



DMC
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#4 - 2015-11-21 08:45:08 UTC
Just a few thoughts.

If you have not done so spend some time in high sec learning to fly cloaked everywhere you go. Pay particular attention to mastering the art of minimum exposure when going from gate cloak to on board cloak since that is one of your most vulnerable times.

If you do not know how to make them, practice making safe spots while you are in warp, one day they may save your ship or pod.

Carry many sets of extra probes, more than once I have seen players leave them behind in a WH and not be able to get back to reconnect to them.

Go in a pod with no implants, or implants you can afford to replace. If you get caught in a WH and lose your ship you might have to take the POD express to get out because your ability to scan blew up with the ship.

Nul sec will add the potential for warp bubbles so reading up on them is a very good thing to do.

Warping directly to a gate is not always the best idea, but warping to any of the predefined distances can be a bad idea as well so you will have to decide how to deal with these things.

If you have high enough skills combat probes can be an excellent option for general use. They can be used to scan for everything that the core probes can and they offer you the ability to use them as a form of scout to see what is around the gates before you jump to them. If you have never used them then I suggest some time in high sec learning to use them for general scanning and for scouting gates.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-11-21 11:08:48 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Donnachadh wrote:
Just a few thoughts.

If you have not done so spend some time in high sec learning to fly cloaked everywhere you go. Pay particular attention to mastering the art of minimum exposure when going from gate cloak to on board cloak since that is one of your most vulnerable times.

If you do not know how to make them, practice making safe spots while you are in warp, one day they may save your ship or pod.

Carry many sets of extra probes, more than once I have seen players leave them behind in a WH and not be able to get back to reconnect to them.

Go in a pod with no implants, or implants you can afford to replace. If you get caught in a WH and lose your ship you might have to take the POD express to get out because your ability to scan blew up with the ship.

Nul sec will add the potential for warp bubbles so reading up on them is a very good thing to do.

Warping directly to a gate is not always the best idea, but warping to any of the predefined distances can be a bad idea as well so you will have to decide how to deal with these things.

If you have high enough skills combat probes can be an excellent option for general use. They can be used to scan for everything that the core probes can and they offer you the ability to use them as a form of scout to see what is around the gates before you jump to them. If you have never used them then I suggest some time in high sec learning to use them for general scanning and for scouting gates.

Very good advice.

I usually have my cloak mod set in F1 slot for ease of keyboard activation asap after initiating warp and emerging from gate cloak. Making Safe Spots is definitely a must. Also about Null sec and warp bubbles, always warp to some other celestial object first before warping to a station or gate for jump. That will help bypass most warp bubbles.

I'm not sure but I think CCP made Probes automatically return to ship before leaving system, docking or jumping through w-hole. I definitely like the idea of using Combat Probes to scout out potential campers on a gate. Another thing is get use to running Directional Scan. That can also be used to help spot campers at gates or stations as well as spot combat probes out scanning for you.

Main thing is remain calm, especially when you jump into a system and see players on the gate. You have 30 seconds of gate cloak to view the area. If there's bubbles set up, look for a celestial object that's not in line with the bubbles, warp to it and engage cloak asap. If being chased, quickly warp to another celestial and make some safe spots. If the system is really active, just kick back cloaked in safe spot and log off for a bit. When you do log back in, make sure to activate cloak asap.

Anyway, good luck and may you have much success.


DMC
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-11-21 11:10:27 UTC
Thera is THE hub of New Eden offering shortcuts to a all over New Eden, but be careful the hunters know that as well, so exploring in the adjacent holes and systems is dangerous and competetive, instead venture deaper into regions, search for quiet places.

From highsec it can be be very time consuming to scan a random chain into null, the other way is easier, hence placing a jump clone with the scan ship in NPC null like Stain or freeported Provi is a good idea. Then you can focus on scanning and exfiltrate the loot when you find a good connection.

I'm my own NPC alt.

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2015-11-21 13:44:33 UTC
learning how to operate in null will have a learning curve. First thing to note is that most of the gate camps that exist in null are at or near entrance systems. Meaning gates that connect null to empire or choke points a little further in but still relatively close to empire. So if you are taking wormholes deep into null sec gate camps won't be your biggest concern.

Mainly I think that you need to understand how intel channels work. Once you are seen in local your location and movements will be reported to everyone in that coalition. Don't think that just because you are warping from system to system and seeing new people in local every time that they are new to you. Think of every pilot in null sec more like a member of the Borg collective. They will have known that you were coming and heard of your travel many jumps before you get to their system.

Depending on where you go and when you go people might come hunting for you or might just not bother. If you are entering space owned by players in a TZ that is different from yours enough that your active time is their inactive time you are more likely to be left alone.

Practicing cloaking when warping around in high sec is good advice but understand that bookmarks are a huge part of null life. Local residents have the upper hand largely due to the fact they they have all of their systems bookmarked with lots of tactical and travel BMs for navigating their space. However also due to jump bridge networks a group that you might think you have out run could be waiting for you at the next gate.

Agony Unleashed has a youtube vid that is an hour and a half long
that is about piloting interdictors. I know it's a long video but he does a very good job of explaining bubble mechanics. If you don't have a good understanding of how bubbles work and how they are used it's worth watching just for that reason. You just have to understand that you can't warp directly from gate to gate in null, that is probably the biggest no no in null sec.

You will come across drag bubbles in null that pull you across something that decloaks you. Understanding bubble mechanics is big if you want to navigate hostile null sec.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Syeed Ameer Ali
Dirtbag Space Warriors Coming for yor Loots
#8 - 2015-11-21 13:48:56 UTC
If you can fly a covops I think you may be overestimating the dangers of simply jumping to your destination in the standard fashion. It is possible for you to get caught in a gatecamp and killed, but there are ways that you can minimize this risk. First of all, have a look at dotlan and try to identify the most likely places for a gatecamp. Usually these are the first jump into lowsec and the first jump into null. Filter your map so you can see ship/pod kills for these systems. Tons of recent kills are pretty good evidence of a gatecamp. Then filter it by number of jumps. Even if there haven't been a lot of recent kills, be cautious of systems which have heavy traffic, as they too are somewhat likely to be camped/bubbled. If you want to get really clever you can check which alliance owns the space and what their most active time zones are, then plan your trip for the opposite time zone to even further reduce the risk.

Ok, now let's imagine that you have planned your route but in spite of your best efforts you have run into a nullsec gatecamp. You jump through a gate and find your ship enveloped in a bubble. A bunch of ships are flying around trying to decloak you. What do you do? First of all, take a few deep breaths. You still have a gate cloak - being bubbled does not negate this. They won't be able to see you until you make a move or until something gets within 2000m and decloaks you. If it's a large gatecamp, they'll put their drones out and orbit the gate and they might be able to find you, in which case you are boned. Fortunately most gate camps aren't big enough to reliably make this happen.

At this point you have two options - you can try to slip away or you can jump back. In most situations if you approach the gate and turn on your microwarpdrive, then spam the jump button you will succeed in getting back through the gate alive, and any of the campers who aggressed you will not be able to follow. Of course, if they are smart their interdictor did not aggress and you will be bubbled on the other side as well. In the jump-back scenario your best option is to immediately pick a celestial, hit align, turn on your cloak, and start spamming the warp button - you have a solid chance of getting away in this situation.

If you decided to try and slip away from the gatecamp rather than jump back, then you should take a look at where you are positioned in the bubble, pick a celestial in the approximate direction of the closest edge, hit align, hit cloak, and spam warp. Your ship will move cloaked to the edge of the bubble and warp off. If they were quick enough they will see where you were in the instant before you cloaked and start approaching that location to decloak you, but often they aren't quick enough or fail to get within range before you warp off.

The other think that deserves to be mentioned is that it is generally unwise to warp directly from gate to gate when traveling around nullsec. If you bounce off a celestial first and thereby approach the out-gate from an unpredictable direction you will be much less likely to be caught in a bubble.
Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
#9 - 2015-11-21 14:07:32 UTC
first ccp did change things so that you cant leave your probes behind - unless you have filled up you cargo such that you dont have room for your probes to fit anymore - say you picked up a dead ships mods after you lauched your probes or scooped somebodies left over drones - your probes maynot fit anymore if you are not careful.

Second - the most important thing about wh - make sure you bookmark the otherside of the wh after you jump - its critically important even if you are in a probe ship. For instance - say you jump into wh then warp off without bming wh - then somebody kills you - well now your pod is stuck - and if you have implants - you will lose them bc the only way to get out is to self destruct you pod.

Finally - getting around null is not hard - tedious. Its a bad idea to warp gate to gate when folk are in system as they maybe camping the gate - you want to bounce off of celestials and perches. Which means that as you go through a null system for the first time - you want to try and make a lot of safe perches for each gate - as I said tedious.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-11-21 16:04:02 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I'm not sure but I think CCP made Probes automatically return to ship before leaving system, docking or jumping through w-hole.

I believe you can still lose your active probes if for some reason you disconnect and are unable to log back in before they expire. So it's always a good idea to carry a spare set (a set of t1 probes is quite cheap).

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#11 - 2015-11-21 17:33:16 UTC
The Larold wrote:
I'm going to pop into the first WH I can find in hi-sec,


Sketchy idea at best. Wormholes coming from highsec can be bubbled on the other side.

You'll do better to use Thera to get around. Keep an eye on http://www.eve-scout.com for signatures and pop into the "EvE-Scout" channel in-game and ask for someone to scout the hole you're interested in. From there you can do your thing and get back the same way.


> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#12 - 2015-11-21 18:00:43 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I'm not sure but I think CCP made Probes automatically return to ship before leaving system, docking or jumping through w-hole.

I believe you can still lose your active probes if for some reason you disconnect and are unable to log back in before they expire. So it's always a good idea to carry a spare set (a set of t1 probes is quite cheap).

To expand on this a bit.
I have lost probes due to glitches in the communication between client and server.
Lost probes on a disconnect.
I have even lost probes because I was to close to the gate and they did not have time to auto return to my cargo bay before I jumped through the gate.

In the end when you are dealing with maintaining the ability to scan your way out of WH rather than taking the POD Exress (sefl destruct) a few extra sets of probes is cheap, requires very little cargo space and just makes sense overall. Especially for a new player just starting their journey's into WH and nul.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#13 - 2015-11-23 20:48:13 UTC
I would strongly recommend simply popping into a WH and simply getting lost in WHs for a while. Do it in a cov ops ship you expect to lose. Practice dscanning, checking out who lives in what system without decloaking or dropping probes. Just because there are no people on dscan in a WH doesn't mean they aren't there watching. I personally track down every active forcefield in every WH I'm moving through so I know who is out there to potentially attack. Have you practiced finding POSes without dropping combat probes? I would get tripwire set up (https://tripwire.eve-apps.com/) for your traveling time. It might take you 5-6 wormholes deep to find an exit to null, and tripwire will keep the map of your current chain of systems handy.

I would suggest starting by ignoring the specific target region you want and just trying to find any null system through a WH. Find an empty null system, run any sites in that pocket, and jump back into the WH you came out of. As long as you are logged off in a WH, you will have a much easier time scanning down a new HS exit than you will navigating null gatecamps to get back home.

Tripwire will tell you immediately if the WH you jump into has a HS/LS/null/WH static connection, which will definitely help.

Finding a specific destination in null will be tricky. I would start by learning how to simply not die in any WH/null space before worrying about getting to your target part of null. Just log off in a safe spot in a WH every day, and spend a week or so scanning/scouting/practicing moving through WHs to find nullsec systems. I would recommend finding a dead lowsec pocket to find your first WH. If it's a HS entrance near a populated area, there's a chance the other side of that first WH is camped.
Kira Kaliandra
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2015-11-24 08:58:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kira Kaliandra
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
I would strongly recommend simply popping into a WH and simply getting lost in WHs for a while. Do it in a cov ops ship you expect to lose. Practice dscanning, checking out who lives in what system without decloaking or dropping probes. Just because there are no people on dscan in a WH doesn't mean they aren't there watching. I personally track down every active forcefield in every WH I'm moving through so I know who is out there to potentially attack. Have you practiced finding POSes without dropping combat probes? I would get tripwire set up (https://tripwire.eve-apps.com/) for your traveling time. It might take you 5-6 wormholes deep to find an exit to null, and tripwire will keep the map of your current chain of systems handy.

I would suggest starting by ignoring the specific target region you want and just trying to find any null system through a WH. Find an empty null system, run any sites in that pocket, and jump back into the WH you came out of. As long as you are logged off in a WH, you will have a much easier time scanning down a new HS exit than you will navigating null gatecamps to get back home.

Tripwire will tell you immediately if the WH you jump into has a HS/LS/null/WH static connection, which will definitely help.

Finding a specific destination in null will be tricky. I would start by learning how to simply not die in any WH/null space before worrying about getting to your target part of null. Just log off in a safe spot in a WH every day, and spend a week or so scanning/scouting/practicing moving through WHs to find nullsec systems. I would recommend finding a dead lowsec pocket to find your first WH. If it's a HS entrance near a populated area, there's a chance the other side of that first WH is camped.


^ This!

I started exploring a while back and at the beginning I used my Anathema (covops frig) to explore wh and go for data/relic sites.

At one point I entered a wh and without noticing, my entry point collapsed and the only other connections i found led me to other wormholes/null sectors.
I panicked a bit tbh and even thought of suiciding ... but Im glad i didnt.

All other wh connections led to c4+ wormholes and some null sectors. I even ended up in system at war, one side was attacking with a large fleet of capital ships and all sort of other ships. It was a pretty sight, i stayed cloaked and watch for a bit, was awesome :)

I took the challenge of returning to high sec in one piece. After a few hours i was lost, I had no idea where i was, i started popping up all over the null sec regions and couldnt find a hs connection.

It took me over 8 hours totals to find an exit but in that time I managed to make a few hundred million isk from all the data/relic sites i hacked, not to mention all the knowledge i gained in this adventure.

It was great, exciting not knowing what the next system would bring me to ...
I've returned home with a tale to tell to my friends :)

Nowdays I fly Stratios and my legion for exploration purposes, really good ships.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#15 - 2015-11-24 10:50:00 UTC
I suggest flying an interdiction nullified ship with a probe launcher equipped out to nullsec, then once in a quiet null system in the desired region, probe down a chain leading to highsec.

It's easier to do it that way than in reverse.

Thera is dangerous.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com