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[December] Command Destroyers

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Author
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#381 - 2015-11-18 20:38:14 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Stitch Kaneland wrote:


Im mainly interested in the MJD feature.


The link aspect of these ships appears to be very niche, at best (inside shattered WH's). These ships are going to be awesome purely because of the micro jump drive thingy.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#382 - 2015-11-18 20:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Xequecal wrote:
It absolutely needs to not work on jump freighters. If it did, it would be fairly easy to gank JFs warping to the highsec gate after jumping into lowsec. All you have to do is time how long it takes for a JF to warp from the jump-in station to the highsec gate, and then just have a cloaked scout on the station grid call out the exact moment he enters warp. Spool up your command MJD 8 seconds before he arrives and you're pretty likely to drag him off.


Keep an exit cyno ready to light when you're in lowsec. Someone does this to you, you light immediately and bounce. And that, btw, is also only applicable if the 'doesn't affect invulnerable ships' isn't in effect - because you've got those seconds when you come out of warp when you can't be targeted yet, because the system hasn't changed your state. Make sure you spam 'jump' when you're coming in, and you should be ok.

The real question is: these things don't need to target. If I'm 5km away from one of these things when it goes off, and I've already heard 'warp drive active', will I warp from the new location? If it works like a normal MJD, the code-side effect seems to be purely 'changing location to these coordinates in space' - speed, targeting, module cycling, none of it changes. Normal MJDs, though, can't be activated on a ship entering warp, and prevent you from initiating warp if it's cycling up. Will this prevent warps, or just bounce the start point by 100km? (assuming the endpoint wouldn't move 100km in the same direction.)
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#383 - 2015-11-18 20:48:12 UTC
Will ships that are currently lighting a cyno be moved by the jump?

If they are moved, will the cyno spot move or remain in the original position?

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#384 - 2015-11-18 21:25:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
If a fleet of 100 of these all activate MJFG at the same time, will they jump 10,000km away? Will it crash the server?

I think it's worth considering forcing them to restart the MJFG after being jumped, that way it gives snipers a brief chance to take them out before they get away.

I'm imagining a scenario in which a destroyer fleet is brawling with an Apocalypse/Bhaalgorn fleet. The destroyers are slowly losing ships due to the Bhaalgorn's neuts and webs allowing Apocalypses to hit with gleam ammo. Their fleet is bubbled so they have one of their command destroyers activate the MJFG to get out of the bubble so they can warp away. As soon as the MJFG goes active, the battleship FC tells all apocalypse pilots to activate sensor boosters and switch to aurora ammo. Soon as the destroyers land they're still targeted by the apocalypses, who fire and take out half the remaining destroyer fleet in seconds before they manage to warp off.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Midori Tsu
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#385 - 2015-11-18 21:26:47 UTC
For counter gameplay options could Micro Jump Drive Disruption bubbles be introduced? They did show up in the database at one point so i know the idea isn't that far out there. Would be cool to give this to heavy interdictors to give them another thing to do.

I think the fact that the only counter game play to this mechanic is scramblers or killing the command destroyer is very disappointing. More options would be great.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#386 - 2015-11-18 23:02:46 UTC
Arrendis wrote:


Keep an exit cyno ready to light when you're in lowsec. Someone does this to you, you light immediately and bounce. And that, btw, is also only applicable if the 'doesn't affect invulnerable ships' isn't in effect - because you've got those seconds when you come out of warp when you can't be targeted yet, because the system hasn't changed your state. Make sure you spam 'jump' when you're coming in, and you should be ok.

The real question is: these things don't need to target. If I'm 5km away from one of these things when it goes off, and I've already heard 'warp drive active', will I warp from the new location? If it works like a normal MJD, the code-side effect seems to be purely 'changing location to these coordinates in space' - speed, targeting, module cycling, none of it changes. Normal MJDs, though, can't be activated on a ship entering warp, and prevent you from initiating warp if it's cycling up. Will this prevent warps, or just bounce the start point by 100km? (assuming the endpoint wouldn't move 100km in the same direction.)

You aren't invulnerable in warp, since you can be smart bombed once you are on grid.
So the above posters concern is actually serious for slower ships, since it takes you a long time to exit warp.
Shagmar Gera
Gang of 4
#387 - 2015-11-18 23:04:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Shagmar Gera
I just tested it on Singularity. And since so many people were asking...

So far:

The MJFG does jump bastioned marauders.

It does not jump freighters, or Orcas.

EDIT: Also! I MFJG'd a cyno ship. The Ship moved but the cyno stayed put.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#388 - 2015-11-18 23:16:04 UTC
Shagmar Gera wrote:
I just tested it on Singularity. And since so many people were asking...

So far:

The MJFG does jump bastioned marauders.

It does not jump freighters, or Orcas.

EDIT: Also! I MFJG'd a cyno ship. The Ship moved but the cyno stayed put.



The marauder and cyno are really bad. Hopefully bugs.
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#389 - 2015-11-18 23:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Moraguth
Shagmar Gera wrote:
I just tested it on Singularity. And since so many people were asking...

So far:

The MJFG does jump bastioned marauders.

It does not jump freighters, or Orcas.

EDIT: Also! I MFJG'd a cyno ship. The Ship moved but the cyno stayed put.


Thanks for checking and reporting back! Interesting that in this case the orca/JF counts as a capital ship in this case. Very very interesting.

The cyno thing is the most amazing thing. light the cyno with a tanky ship, then jump it away. your capitals jumping in will all stay put. very interesting indeed.

EDIT: the marauder thing i'm not too sure about. I can see that one going either way.

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#390 - 2015-11-18 23:42:13 UTC
Moraguth wrote:
It does not jump freighters, or Orcas.

Interesting that in this case the orca/JF[/quote]
When he said "jump freighters" he was talking about freighters (not jump freighters) being jumped by the MJFG.

It's probably the same for regular freighters and jump freighters.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#391 - 2015-11-18 23:53:00 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Im going to assume fitting 2-3 links on one of these will mean 0 tank.


By fitting 2-3 links, you've also beaten the hull trait of *can fit one warfare link*.


I thought it was made clear earlier on in this thread that they were like T1 Battlecruisers - they can fit one link. Theoretically, they could fit command processors to fit more links, but the fitting costs for command processors make that unlikely on these ships.


CBC state *can fit warfare links*, while those are described differently. Was just a guess tbh.
DeadDuck
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#392 - 2015-11-18 23:54:33 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Im going to assume fitting 2-3 links on one of these will mean 0 tank.


By fitting 2-3 links, you've also beaten the hull trait of *can fit one warfare link*.


I thought it was made clear earlier on in this thread that they were like T1 Battlecruisers - they can fit one link. Theoretically, they could fit command processors to fit more links, but the fitting costs for command processors make that unlikely on these ships.


Actually they work fine with 2 links. Of course their tank is inexistent but for a cheap OOG they work very well specially if you use them in a specific system like in FW.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#393 - 2015-11-19 00:03:30 UTC
is it known when in december we get this exactly? i like to know this in regards to planning my skill cue

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#394 - 2015-11-19 00:43:37 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Im going to assume fitting 2-3 links on one of these will mean 0 tank.


By fitting 2-3 links, you've also beaten the hull trait of *can fit one warfare link*.


I thought it was made clear earlier on in this thread that they were like T1 Battlecruisers - they can fit one link. Theoretically, they could fit command processors to fit more links, but the fitting costs for command processors make that unlikely on these ships.



2 links fits without any fitting mods. a fitting mod will let you fit tank(to some degree). the trick will be to get 3 links on this.


its just a cheap throw away booster that if lost doesn't remove sp. push more people to always have there favourite links
Arrendis
TK Corp
#395 - 2015-11-19 01:55:27 UTC
Shagmar Gera wrote:
I just tested it on Singularity. And since so many people were asking...

So far:

The MJFG does jump bastioned marauders.

It does not jump freighters, or Orcas.

EDIT: Also! I MFJG'd a cyno ship. The Ship moved but the cyno stayed put.


Derp! Right, Freighters are technically capitals.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#396 - 2015-11-19 03:57:15 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Shagmar Gera wrote:
I just tested it on Singularity. And since so many people were asking...

So far:

The MJFG does jump bastioned marauders.

It does not jump freighters, or Orcas.

EDIT: Also! I MFJG'd a cyno ship. The Ship moved but the cyno stayed put.



The marauder and cyno are really bad. Hopefully bugs.


I really hope they fix these things.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#397 - 2015-11-19 07:43:27 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Just a suggestion here, but perhaps prevent use of these if they are within a certain range of a Stargate or a Station. The reason being that this could potentially kill a lot of PvP.


Station "games" are lame anyway. Besides, you can still do it in capital. If you can consider this to be "a lot of PvP" that is.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#398 - 2015-11-19 07:59:27 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Just a suggestion here, but perhaps prevent use of these if they are within a certain range of a Stargate or a Station. The reason being that this could potentially kill a lot of PvP.


I think there should be no restriction. The main reason is i want to see cowardly link alts who hug stations/gates to get killed as frequently as possible by MJDing them away from their 99% safe area and get wrecked.

Cant wait for links to be changed, lowsec is pure cancer right now because of this. To the point we have linked breachers and comets flying around. Ill happily take negative sec status and welp a few CD to kill these cowards hiding behind links.



till you realize that these can fit 2-3 links and give the same bonuses as t3's thus its may be cheaper to have links in space.


Price is not a balancing factor.

In addition to that T3 being able to be nullified and warp cloaked. Not to mention actually having enough CPU to run more than two links ;) Or be able to run up to 5 links and still be nullified, able to warp cloaked or be bridged by blops and in some cases still a bit more agile with any kind of viable setup.

I have not looked at the numbers but considering their CPU levels I have some serious doubts if it will be really viable to run 3+ links on these. I mean for 3 links you will need at minimum 2 command processors which would set you back 300 CPU (150 CPU per command processor) to start with and then you would have to find 55 CPU per link for 3 links. And these bad boys kinda start off with ~230 CPU or so.

So my gut feeling is that one is sort of limited to about two links at best unless we are starting to talk about officer co-pros here and even then I'm not 100% convinced one can do it because of stacking penalties.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#399 - 2015-11-19 09:00:11 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Im going to assume fitting 2-3 links on one of these will mean 0 tank.


By fitting 2-3 links, you've also beaten the hull trait of *can fit one warfare link*.


I thought it was made clear earlier on in this thread that they were like T1 Battlecruisers - they can fit one link. Theoretically, they could fit command processors to fit more links, but the fitting costs for command processors make that unlikely on these ships.



2 links fits without any fitting mods. a fitting mod will let you fit tank(to some degree). the trick will be to get 3 links on this.


its just a cheap throw away booster that if lost doesn't remove sp. push more people to always have there favourite links


The Pontifex and Magus can fit 2 without the processors but you could always have a buddy and have another two links in your gang.
I am not keen on dropping a gun for a link but I leave that up to you.

If I am not completly of they should cost around 40-50m and you can kill tech3 destroyeres with them - I like.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#400 - 2015-11-19 09:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
FT Diomedes wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Shagmar Gera wrote:
I just tested it on Singularity. And since so many people were asking...

So far:

The MJFG does jump bastioned marauders.

It does not jump freighters, or Orcas.

EDIT: Also! I MFJG'd a cyno ship. The Ship moved but the cyno stayed put.



The marauder and cyno are really bad. Hopefully bugs.


I really hope they fix these things.

Using it to jump a cyno offensively sounds like it could be powerful, atlhough I don't think it is particularly broken considering it is difficult to stop a cyno anyway, but it shouldn't jump the ship and leave the cyno behind.

The bastion module on the other hand has EWAR immunity and so it should definitely be immune or else marauders effectively become useless.