Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Local only gives intel if it's something people pay attention to all the time. It doesn't take a long lapse in attention at the wrong time to get caught out. If cloaks removes the user from local, then the period between jump in and cloak engage is the time period the people in the solar system would have to realize that they're about to get ganked, and get safe. I'm only going to assume that this'll mean more people will get caught out just from that change alone, and the fact that local is missing from the cloaker's client as well only means he doesn't know if people have left or if more have come in from when he was at the gate. And it doesn't take long for a covert cloak to deactivate, drop a probe, cloak back up, and just jump around in sanctums and see if there isn't anyone who didn't pay attention for those 5-10 seconds tops.

In other words, with that change in the game, I predict that the average roam will probably be cloak capable and have at least one covert cloak capable ship.


I want to see what would happen to nullsec if local was removed. I've argued against this in enough threads, and they always say that it's going to make nullsec some sort of PVP heaven, same as they said about removing the JB. I wouldn't mind actually seeing what the actual effect would be. Let's do this.

Local doesn't really matter, though, because what they'll do is just adapt to this. They know in ratting-heavy systems are most likely going to be either in belts or in sanctums, which means most of today's roaming gangs will most likely be covert cloaks-capable ships, and they'll have a greater chance of avoiding being mentioned in intel channels because they're visible for a few seconds pr system, and in each system they can drop a probe, initiate scan, cloak back up up, warp around in various belts or sanctums and **** whatever's there that they can actually kill. No cynos are strictly necessary.

If they're patient, they can also wait up a few hours, drop another probe and fetch another list of sanctums and go around looking at what's in them then and there, or just keep trolling the belts and POCOs without ever showing themselves until they got someone.

As I've said, I've never advocated against keeping the psychological warfare aspect, that part is pretty awesome. There's a reason I've done a lot of it. It's just the complete lack of effort on the cloaker's part.

Actually, when it comes to AFKing, what removing local (for cloaked ships or in its entirety) will do is just ramp up the effort needed to even do anything in nullsec, for very, very little gain. I'm also highly unconvinced that it'll remove AFK cloaking, because once they go in a system, if they're spotted, that intel'll be spread to everyone. Someone'll probably not pay attention, so they can run around and see if there's someone who didn't read intel in time, and which they can burn down before the cavalry warps in. Then, just like before, they can safe up and wait for a few hours while doing nothing, and sooner or later the inhabitants'll start to relax, some'll log in and not get the intel, etc, and they can go back hunting and get a kill or two.

There's literally nothing about AFK cloaking that removing local fixes, no matter if it's for cloaked ships or all of local. If it does do anything it sways it vastly in the ganker's favor. And that means that sooner rather than later, even more carebears'll leave nullsec for hisec, and the roamers will whine even more about how there's so few targets out there.

Which is why I'm currently in favour of either of those changes. I've argued against those kinds of changes (at least without replacing it with something else) for a long while, and I'm getting to the point where I'd just get my theories verified.

If I were to come up with a serious suggestion to changing local, I would suggest making local a module which had f.ex 10m hp, and which was switched off at 500k damage, until it was repped. That way a roaming gang could run around in 2 waves, one for taking out that module and one as reinforcement. And of course, this would make local something which was granted based on standing, so CVA could still keep up their NRDS policy. But, even just typing up this suggestion was probably hopeless since ~local is overpowered~, making it a system owner/blues only system will definitely not be accepted.

So, it's back to no local (or no cloaked ships in local), to see how roaming gangs will change their tactics, how much this'll impact the carebears, and just how right my assumptions are. Should be interesting.

No, what it'll do is it'll change things drastically in the favor of the cloakers. While, yes, AFKing "as complained about" would cease to be an issue, what we'd end up with instead is both roaming gangs and soloers being more or less nothing but cloakable ships, and instead of instilling psychological fear just by being present in system, he can instill psychological fear just by logging in once in a while, ganking one or two, go AFK for a few hours or log back out and come back again later and rinse and repeat.

You believe this'll make nullsec better, I believe it'll make it worse. I'm more than willing to see who's right, if only so I can say "I told you so", because god damn there's been a lot of people who thinks removing local (without giving the people who live there a proper alternative) will revitalize small gangs warfare. A small gang jesus feature if you will.

Holy crap son. You'd be a catatonic pile of quivering goo in a wormhole.

You don't sound ready to be out of high sec to be honest.

…making them a whole lot easier to defend against and defeat. Everyone wins.

Much like they do now, except they cannot be certain about what they're attackign and except that they have to spend a whole lot more time in each system gathering intel to find someone to attack (not to mention being far more reliant on the skill of the scouts).

No. The longer they stay and the longer they try to choose their target, the bigger the chance that they'll lose that target and/or just be outright destroyed. So they have to be quick about it, just like now.

So in other words it would stop AFKing as complained about. I'm glad we reached an acceptance of that fact.

But again, you're talking as if the ones in favour of balance, would want the simple removal of local without a package of changes to take it's place. That's not what we are asking. But to end AFKing, the subject at hand, locals instant intel needs to be addressed.

But AFKing while cloaked or any other method, would cease to be the weapon it is today, without local. it's that Simple.

If you feel that another form of intel is needed in lowsec, why dont we discuss that instead of debating two sides of the same topic and essentailly agreeing.

We all think that local should be removed.

Another, more active/passive perhaps costs isk. Intel probes.
-Anchorable and destructable probes anchored near the gates and stations to broadcast to anyone in space of a gate activation. Possibly alliance standing as well.
-Probes will not broadcast if they are destroyed they will simply stop broadcasting.
-Should be moderately expensive, 5-15 Mil per probe.
-Moderate HP about as much as a Mobile Warp Bubble.
-Does not broadcast to pilots in station, and does not broadcast out of system.
-Must have a system upgrade in the Ihub to anchor them. Cost per month TBD.

I know it's terrible but I'm so sick and tired of the back and forth, lets get this discussion moving in the right direction!