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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Low sec status and space police
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Haunted Velator
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-11-15 01:01:54 UTC
Hello, and questions:
-I don't see Concord killing players' with low security status (-5 to -10) on sight. But if another player shoots the criminal player, it seems that Concord attacks and finishes the criminal off. Is that how it works? Concord doesn't attack unless the criminal gets into contact? It doesn't seem quite right, but I can't find any clarification anywhere.

-In the situation above, is it Concord or the faction police that kill the criminal's ship?

Thanks.
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#2 - 2015-11-15 01:09:39 UTC
There's a diffference between being flashy and being set to red. If they're suspect (yellow flashy) then u can freely shoot, but then they can shoot back, and the police do not get involved. Criminal (-10, red flashy) is the same as suspect but the faction police come to your help. (They only come in highsec). Players are only corcodokken if they do certain acts in highsec, like illegally shooting somebody.

Also, faction police are nothing like concord, they can be tanked, and even killed.

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Probably.

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Haunted Velator
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-11-15 01:37:15 UTC
Ah, got it. Thank you for the info and help! Just to clarify: If they're red flashy, and you shoot them, Concord will come to your aid and finish them. Even if they don't shoot back?

But if no player shoots them... Concord will eventually shoot them on it's own? If they hang around in that high sec system too long?
Syeed Ameer Ali
Dirtbag Space Warriors Coming for yor Loots
#4 - 2015-11-15 01:54:24 UTC
Haunted Velator wrote:
Ah, got it. Thank you for the info and help! Just to clarify: If they're red flashy, and you shoot them, Concord will come to your aid and finish them. Even if they don't shoot back?

But if no player shoots them... Concord will eventually shoot them on it's own? If they hang around in that high sec system too long?



No. That's not it at all. CONCORD will only kill someone who has a criminal flag in highsec. The criminal flag has nothing directly to do with the player's security status - it is a temporary thing that players get when they commit a "criminal act", such as shooting at someone in highsec who is not at war with you (or in a duel or something), or shooting a pod in lowsec. CONCORD will come every time someone is undocked in a ship with a criminal flag in highsec. They will never destroy somebody just for their sec status.

Faction police, however, are a different thing. Faction police will attack anyone who has low enough sec status or low standings with their faction. If you were to attack a -10 character in highsec, for example, pretty soon facpo would spawn on grid and start shooting them too, provided they were foolish enough to hang aroundlong enough, or you had them tackled and they could not disengage.

Faction police is not the same thing as concord. When you commit a criminal act, for example, CONCORD immediately renders you unable to warp - you have no escape, you cannot evade them, your death is inevitable. Facpo by contrast can only kill you if they can catch up with you. They can only warp scramble you if you hang around within range of them long enough for them to target you. If you have low sec status and just warp from place to place in highsec without stopping in a fast ship they basically can't touch you.

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2015-11-15 02:16:43 UTC
Syeed Ameer Ali wrote:
CONCORD will only kill someone who has a criminal flag in highsec. The criminal flag has nothing directly to do with the player's security status - it is a temporary thing that players get when they commit a "criminal act", such as shooting at someone in highsec who is not at war with you (or in a duel or something), or shooting a pod in lowsec. CONCORD will come every time someone is undocked in a ship with a criminal flag in highsec. They will never destroy somebody just for their sec status.

Faction police, however, are a different thing. Faction police will attack anyone who has low enough sec status or low standings with their faction. If you were to attack a -10 character in highsec, for example, pretty soon facpo would spawn on grid and start shooting them too, provided they were foolish enough to hang aroundlong enough, or you had them tackled and they could not disengage.

Faction police is not the same thing as concord. When you commit a criminal act, for example, CONCORD immediately renders you unable to warp - you have no escape, you cannot evade them, your death is inevitable. Facpo by contrast can only kill you if they can catch up with you. They can only warp scramble you if you hang around within range of them long enough for them to target you. If you have low sec status and just warp from place to place in highsec without stopping in a fast ship they basically can't touch you.

This is all correct.

To reemphasize; this only applies in high-sec. In low-sec you can get most of the same timers... but no NPCs will come. At all.


Remember; CONCORD only punishes and no NPC in the game is designed to protect any player... merely discourage attacks. If a player decides to attack you anyways, it is up to you to protect yourself.

How did you Veterans start?
Haunted Velator
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-11-15 02:22:26 UTC
Nice, got it. One last question. A player with -5 to -10 sec status can still dock in high sec, correct? Seems they do.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2015-11-15 02:43:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Haunted Velator wrote:
Nice, got it. One last question. A player with -5 to -10 sec status can still dock in high sec, correct? Seems they do.

They can, yes. No NPC station will deny you the ability to duck dock (exception: if you are in Faction Warfare and try to dock in a LOW-SEC station owned by an opposing faction).

Only player stations can be configured to grant and deny other players from docking based on their standings with their corporation or alliance (which have to be manually set by a player).


This may seem illogical from a RL perspective... so try to see if from an in-game perspective. EVE is set in a distopian universe. "Rule of law" (like in-game death) is more of an inconvenience and corporations are more interested in money than anything else (and even the most newbie capsuleers are wildly wealthy compared to plebeian "mortals" and planet dwellers).

For a more in-game rationale; NPCs are designed to discourage some behaviors but never outright prevent them. This creates a more dynamic game where players performing the "criminal" aspect are effectively the content in that area of the game (the same way their victims are too).

Ganking, "criminal" behavior, and fighting against it are just part of the fun here. Cool

How did you Veterans start?
Haunted Velator
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-11-18 01:59:01 UTC
Uh oh, sorry, my last question was not the last one after all. If your corp is wardecced and you're in high sec, and you're attacked by a wardeccing player with -5 to -10 sec status, will faction police still spawn against him? Or all bets off, it's just war between wardeccing players?
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-11-18 02:20:08 UTC
Haunted Velator wrote:
Hello, and questions:
-I don't see Concord killing players' with low security status (-5 to -10) on sight. But if another player shoots the criminal player, it seems that Concord attacks and finishes the criminal off. Is that how it works? Concord doesn't attack unless the criminal gets into contact? It doesn't seem quite right, but I can't find any clarification anywhere.

-In the situation above, is it Concord or the faction police that kill the criminal's ship?

Thanks.

Concord versus faction police thing has already been pointed out. I would like to add that there is a delay involved in the faction police or even concord showing up. The confusion that you might be having is if someone who has a suspect flag warps off before the police come but when another player points them and locks them down it give the police time to show up and help finish them off.

TL dr;
I don't think it's that the police are helping the player. More like the player is locking the guy with the suspect flag down long enough for the police to show up.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2015-11-18 03:01:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Haunted Velator wrote:
Uh oh, sorry, my last question was not the last one after all. If your corp is wardecced and you're in high sec, and you're attacked by a wardeccing player with -5 to -10 sec status, will faction police still spawn against him? Or all bets off, it's just war between wardeccing players?

During a declared war in high-sec...

- CONCORD ceases to be a factor between the two warring parties.
- Faction Police will still do their thing as before (they don't care about war mechanics... they have a "job" to do Blink).


It should be emphasized that Faction Police are not a OMGWTFBBQ type force. They can be easily avoided by ships cruiser-class and smaller. And with some effort and preparation, they can be tanked... more so in lower security systems (ex: 0.5 to 0.7).
Basically... Faction Police will provide you an edge during a war. But this is assuming that your enemy has a low security status**.


**NOTE: being "blinky yellow/red" is not always indicative of low security status. It can mean a lot of other things ranging from; stealing from another player's wreck or jettisoned cargo... or that the player in question has provided remote assistance to another player engaging other players (both of which will confer a 15 minute "Suspect Status" that will not affect a player's Security Status).


Yeah... I know... it can be a bit complicated. Just stick to the following hard and fast rules;
- is the player blinky yellow or red? If so, you can probably shoot him/her.
- can you kill (or at the very least survive against) the player in question? If so, give it a try. If not... keep your distance and adjust accordingly.

How did you Veterans start?
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-11-18 03:08:47 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

Yeah... I know... it can be a bit complicated. Just stick to the following hard and fast rules;
- is the player blinky yellow or red? If so, you can probably shoot him/her.
- can you kill (or at the very least survive against) the player in question? If so, give it a try. If not... keep your distance and adjust accordingly.

Isn't that what the safety is for? I thought CCP gave us the safety button so that new players didn't have to worry about this kind of stuff.

I am fairly certain that if your safety is set to green then you won't be allowed to do anything that would get you in a position where another player can shoot at you without concord getting involved meaning something that would give you a suspect flag.

With a yellow safety you can do things that will allow other players to shoot at you but not things that would get you concorded.

With a red safety you can do anything even things that will get you concordocken.

for the sake of the OP someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Thierry Orlenard
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-11-18 03:16:17 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:

Yeah... I know... it can be a bit complicated. Just stick to the following hard and fast rules;
- is the player blinky yellow or red? If so, you can probably shoot him/her.
- can you kill (or at the very least survive against) the player in question? If so, give it a try. If not... keep your distance and adjust accordingly.

Isn't that what the safety is for? I thought CCP gave us the safety button so that new players didn't have to worry about this kind of stuff.

I am fairly certain that if your safety is set to green then you won't be allowed to do anything that would get you in a position where another player can shoot at you without concord getting involved meaning something that would give you a suspect flag.

With a yellow safety you can do things that will allow other players to shoot at you but not things that would get you concorded.

With a red safety you can do anything even things that will get you concordocken.

for the sake of the OP someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.


I think ShahFluffers is referring to "can you kill or survive the player in question" in the practical sense i.e are you a two week old character going up against a three year old character, or what.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#13 - 2015-11-18 05:09:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
ergherhdfgh wrote:
for the sake of the OP someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Thierry Orlenard wrote:
I think ShahFluffers is referring to "can you kill or survive the player in question" in the practical sense i.e are you a two week old character going up against a three year old character, or what.

You are both right.

The "safety button" (which I forgot about completely) does prevent a player from doing certain things.

Green setting prevents a player from taking any "unintentional" action that would produce "Suspect Status" or Limited Engagement.
Yellow setting allows for actions resulting in "Suspect Status" and "limited engagement," but not allow you to do anything that would result in "Criminal Status" (see: CONCORDOKKENED).
Red setting allows one to engage at will (and IIRC, you'll still get a final pop-up warning asking if you want to perform a "criminal action").

Basically... the "safety button" is an "idiot lock" that can prevent you from getting sucked into a bad situation you do not have much knowledge of. Roll


However... since the setting can be changed on the fly, you still have to ask yourself whether you want to engage a "flashy" target in the first place.


My recommendation is to live dangerously. Keep the setting at "yellow," engage at will, and learn from your mistakes (like most of us vets did when there was no safety button). You'll become an expert of the security mechanics in a few months. Blink

How did you Veterans start?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#14 - 2015-11-18 19:27:48 UTC
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
There's a diffference between being flashy and being set to red. If they're suspect (yellow flashy) then u can freely shoot, but then they can shoot back, and the police do not get involved. Criminal (-10, red flashy) is the same as suspect but the faction police come to your help. (They only come in highsec). Players are only corcodokken if they do certain acts in highsec, like illegally shooting somebody.

Also, faction police are nothing like concord, they can be tanked, and even killed.

-10 security is outlaw, NOT criminal. Outlaws (-5 and lower security) and their pods are legal targets everywhere.

* CONCORD deals with criminals (criminal flag).
* Faction Police deal with outlaws (-5 and lower security).
* Faction Navies deal with low standing (-5 and lower faction standing).

Beware that CONCORD are the faction police in CONCORD and Interbus controlled systems (e.g. Sanctum constellation in the Genesis region).

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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-11-18 22:39:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Tau Cabalander wrote:


* CONCORD deals with criminals (criminal flag).
* Faction Police deal with outlaws (-5 and lower security).
* Faction Navies deal with low standing (-5 and lower faction standing).




There is also Customs who get involved if you are smuggling contraband like boosters.

One other minor point. Concorde still have a presence in losec but it is limited to just sentry guns. Sentry guns will shoot at anyone with the criminal flag. Sentry guns are easily tanked but you still need to be aware of them.
Haunted Velator
Doomheim
#16 - 2015-11-20 23:26:48 UTC
Thanks, all who answered. Really nice and very clear. o7
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Moira.
#17 - 2015-11-24 15:50:08 UTC
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