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New Camera Controls

First post
Author
Mister Ripley
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#121 - 2016-01-07 11:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mister Ripley
helana Tsero wrote:

- The initial Tactical Cam removed the white ghosting in the first 30km of the tactical overlays circles.. This was GREAT ! But now I see you have put it back in again. Honestly that ghosting is not needed.. If a player requires the ghosting to remember the range of his weapon or point range then he is dead anyway.. vast majority of eve players are not this dumb.
The ghosting obscures your view of your immediate surrounds.. it actually makes choosing targets harder.. and it looks really ugly. Please remove it. (and on current TQ tactical overlay as well)


I hate that thing. It has no use since it's really hard to see if someone is in your target range bubble. It obscures everthing. Everyone knows his target range and uses the overview. And this freaking popup bubble while hovering over weapons, drives me insane. It's the main reason I never use it on TQ.

On a side note: I don't think it's possible to use the new orbit camera with it's offset - while drunk - without vomiting. It's already hard to use it sober and not to vomit. There is also no way to properly look at your ship... that, with all the graphics work from the last months is a real bummer.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#122 - 2016-01-07 13:10:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Just logged in for a couple of beauty shots and noticed the tracking camera change.

better granted, still not great though.

The functionality we have been talking about is pressing "c" to turn it on then clicking the target to "set interest".



Mister Ripley wrote:

On a side note: I don't think it's possible to use the new orbit camera with it's offset - while drunk - without vomiting.

yes it is ya big sissy Lol
Mister Ripley
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2016-01-07 13:23:41 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
The functionality we have been talking about is pressing "c" to turn it on then clicking the target to "set interest".

IMO it's ok to activate the camera (pressing 'c') on the current target. I use it a lot to quickly swing to my current target.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#124 - 2016-01-07 20:36:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
By popular request, I repost my previous comments (along with some further observations) here:

Could you explain what the purpose of this replacement is? What is the goal you're trying to achieve and how does the (presumed eventual) removal of the current camera achieve it? As long as it's opt-in, it's fine but for how long will it remain so?

• First person is neat, but ultimately pointless. It also means you have to implement more control options to allow the exact same level of personalisation that everyone expects from an FPS. I know you guys hate options, but this is non-negotiable.

• Tactical view is an interesting idea and I suppose it came out of the (very) old idea of having more of a 2D presentation of the battlefield. That idea was cute; this implementation is not it due to how you keep losing track of where you are, and yet does not offer any more of an overview of the battlefield than what the current camera + tactical overlay offer. In fact, since it's so easy to move off of your own ship, it arguably offers less, even more so with the lacking persistence of settings others have already pointed out. If you want to keep this mode, the paradoxically right thing to do is to remove it and rework it from the ground up as something that doesn't even use a regular camera view. That might offer something better than what's currently available.

• The orbital view could conceivably be interesting for movie makers if you stopped trying to make it so dynamic — granted, at the moment, it's not actually dynamic, just heavily inebriated, uncontrollable, and not showing anything of interest. You might be able to catch a neat fly-by every now and then, but it's just too chaotic to be reliable and is almost completely useless for actual flying. Again, more options (which you hate) could solve this: allow the user to turn off each and every automatic effect individually to the point where it reverts to the old system.

And again, this just leaves the core question unanswered: what are you actually trying to achieve? What are your use cases and how do the different camera modes correspond to and solve those use cases? How do you plan to handle the case “none of the above” in the long term? Asking for feedback is all well and good, but without knowing what you are actually aiming for, it is almost impossible to say whether what you're doing is of any use or any good.

That last point about picking “none of the above” is very very very important, because it seems to be the most common use case and one you have forgotten about completely. Right now, you're missing the option having the orbit camera, only without all the cumbersome controls and without the cinematic stuff. A view that just shows your ship and what you're looking at and nothing more fancy than that. Yes, this means you have to retain the old camera because it is simply better for almost every practical use than the fancy modes you seemingly want to replace it with. In doing so, you could even improve the current camera some more: switching between directions should be near-instant, very precise, and snap sharply with absolutely zero wobble — i.e. the current tracking mode but without the smoothness. Such a camera mode is by far more critical and infinitely more important than any of the three options the new camera has because they it is absolutely irreplaceable for combat tasks such as manoeuvring and quick scanning. It also offers vastly better situational awareness than anything these new modes offer for the simple reason that it defaults to always showing your ship. With the old camera, you have to struggle a bit not to have your ship at the centre of the screen and show everything going on around it — this is a good thing and it must be retained in some form. Anything that inverts the struggle is inherently bad and ill-conceived and must be removed.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2016-01-08 02:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
I'll also add this here. As I said in the forum for the Beta feedback, after seeing what you've done on the test server, and the beta, new camera needs to include 'classic camera mode'. I like what we already have. Add to it if you want, but don't remove it. You'll break the game for me. I never asked for a 'new camera'. Never even crossed my mind that we needed one.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Manic Velocity
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2016-01-08 14:56:18 UTC
I feel the new camera adds tons of value for movie makers. Seriously, I've been praying for the Jessica engine to be released for years now, but I honestly feel the new camera makes it unnecessary. At the very least, it's a huge step in the right direction. The new camera is great for achieving some beautiful cinematic shots.

That having been said... I just haven't been able to get used to it during normal gameplay. The standard camera performs far better as a tactical tool, which is what it needs to be in 99% of use cases.

I'd simply request that the two modes co-exist, rather than the new replacing the old. Have a "Classic Camera" option for day-to-day gameplay, and a "Cinematic Camera" option for us creative types to make the videos we've always dreamed of making.

"The most punchable face in New Eden."

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Hold Alpha
Doomheim
#127 - 2016-01-08 16:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hold Alpha
Could we get the marquee select to lock based on your brackets (or overview) profile? That would make it a lot more usable, right now it will lock any collidables and clouds that are in the way.

Also, when a ship you are tracking leaves the grid, the camera resets to whatever direction your own ship is facing. Instead it would be great if it remained centered on the point your target disappeared (this is also how the old camera behaves).


Edit: A couple bugs:

  • The jump animation doesn't break anymore, but it still doesn't auto-select the next system in your route after a jump, like this.
  • The "Track/Look at" options always appear in the contextual menu, even when it doesn't make sense.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#128 - 2016-01-08 22:41:52 UTC
Manic Velocity wrote:
I feel the new camera adds tons of value for movie makers. Seriously, I've been praying for the Jessica engine to be released for years now, but I honestly feel the new camera makes it unnecessary. At the very least, it's a huge step in the right direction. The new camera is great for achieving some beautiful cinematic shots.

That having been said... I just haven't been able to get used to it during normal gameplay. The standard camera performs far better as a tactical tool, which is what it needs to be in 99% of use cases.

I'd simply request that the two modes co-exist, rather than the new replacing the old. Have a "Classic Camera" option for day-to-day gameplay, and a "Cinematic Camera" option for us creative types to make the videos we've always dreamed of making.

this is exactly my sentiment also.

semoon47
Dissident Aggressors
Mordus Angels
#129 - 2016-01-10 15:53:26 UTC
Meeeehhhh, really don't like the New Camera. Nice gimic, but as soon as i need to do something serious I switch back. Here are my issues.
1) The camera inertia and travelling camera are too slow. When you've in a battle, or trying to find out what's going on on your grid, you don't want your camera flying from one place to the next
2) we are all very used to clicking something and the view pointing at it. To change to to Alt-Click is a step too far. I think you should retains the single click feature and fiond another way. But, Alt-drag window works well and its good to be able to re-postion to camera to distant objects
3) When you have selected another object, you need to be able to swicth back to your own view quickly. I found it to be too many clicks to do this, and my tactical grid has disappeared also, so i also needed to turn this back on .. quickly.

Overall, i like where this is going, but the controls need to be changed. Keep the existing controls, and add these as shortcut extras.

That's my 0.02 isk work
Axlotl Spersk
The Corporeal Undead
#130 - 2016-01-13 17:56:34 UTC
Bug when new camera is switched on.

Set a destination two or more jumps away

If "settings > general settings > experimental features > try the new camera" is switched on the Overview changes the way it keeps track of your destination and therefore with the synch to the "Selected Item - Tracking Camera" window

With the option switched Off when you fly to next destination the Overview refreshes and the highlight bar is present on the next gate.

When switched On the highlight bar disappears from the overview. This means that you have to click the next gate in the overview to select it so that you can click "Jump" in the "Selected Item - Tracking Camera" window. Very frustrating.
DJB16
DJB Alpha
#131 - 2016-01-13 21:08:11 UTC
now i dont post on the forums very often unless im buying a char so take my comments to heart devs


Quote:
Sound effect for tactical overview - How do you turn it off? The rest of my sounds are set as I like them, then you get that horrible blasting of sound (designed by some one who has got to be tone deaf) and no option to lower its intrusive level.

someone else posted the above and could not agree more


the man point of my post is TURN THAT ******* **** OFF
is WAY too LOUD and NO option turns it off unless u turn off master sound which turns off EVERYTHING


now orbit mode
allow a list of FOV positions and then be able to LOCK IT IN
default it to OLD camera fov setting so we dont start getting fishbowl eyes trying to find it on a mouse wheel that gives no feedback to the real setting

center camera on SHIP not 10 CM (on my monitor) below my ship (and not zoomed into its tailpipe) and then have it move with the ship not this weird "looking at from a distance making me sick" setting
Conrad Makbure
Trident Expedition
#132 - 2016-01-17 23:04:25 UTC
First off, the new camera controls are excellent. I love how I can jump from tactical to orbit to first person (by the way, please expand on the first person mode with more "inside" environment in there, that'd be way cool). As stated above, please add a volume level for the tactical camera in advanced volume settings - it's way too loud...and a bit annoying.


Nicola Arman wrote:
Currently the
Tracking Camera: Center Tracking Position
Tracking Camera: Custom Tracking Position
Tracking Camera: Toggle point camera to selected item
Tracking Camera: Toggle Tracking Position Mode
Shortcuts seem to have no functionality while the New Camera is being used.

Orbit Camera seems very sluggish.

Also, the New Camera has brought the ship's POV too close by a few gradients if that makes any sense. At max settings space looks much crisper using the old camera. The stars look less distant and more fake with the New Camera.

Lastly, in First Person Mode there is a lack of turret impact sounds. You hear the shots being fired but you don't hear them making contact like you would outside the ship. Maybe this is intended?

These are cool as f.u.c.k. features though.
Great job so far CCP!



Confirmed on the custom tracking position, it doesn't appear to work, only center works.
BlitZ Kotare
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#133 - 2016-01-18 14:31:54 UTC  |  Edited by: BlitZ Kotare
New camera feedback:

- The inertia on the new camera needs an option to set that to zero. I've never thought of myself as having a sensitive inner ear but the way the camera wobbles after I've stopped moving the mouse in several of the new modes (and the old tracking camera's bobbing action) is very upsetting to my stomach.

- The tactical camera is cool. Please let us move it around using the arrow keys? (maybe this is possible and I just don't see where the binds are).

- In tactical camera mode the Tactical Overlay should follow the camera so we can see where the camera is in space. Or have a second one (maybe a slightly different color?) that follows the camera. I would also not be opposed to a box like probes have that can be drug to move the cameras focal point around.

- In Orbit view mode the camera offset towards the front of the ship when it's moving/warping should be an option, not a requirement.

- I too would like a button for "classic camera" mode. Orbit does seem smoother in some ways, more cinematic, but the inertia, offsets and general feel of it just aren't quite right to replace the old camera for me, and having to go into the options for a check box to switch between tactical camera and the old one just isn't practical.

- The Tactical Overlay automatically turns itself on every time you toggle Tactical Camera on, and off again when you go to Orbit camera. These settings should not be hooked together imo.
Siempre Duskwraith
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2016-01-20 04:44:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Siempre Duskwraith
*just kidding I'm not smart*
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#135 - 2016-01-20 23:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
I just tried the new camera. I havent explored all the options but in its default state (the state that new players will see it i expect) it is about 25% as useful as the current camera. Slower, shows less.

I do a lot of manual piloting, and a camera with sluggish damping and slow response is not at all what i want.

Please stop being tempted by ill advised polish from people that clearly dont play the game.

I know you guys are determined to alienate as many players as possible with half baked, convoluted changes that you think are clever because you are designing-out the possibility of undesired emergent gameplay, but could you please stop fixing things that arnt at all broken.

To retain new players you should make a better default overview and day one content that isnt shooting red crosses. Perhaps making content that encourages older players to mingle with the new guys for their own benefit while they bestow experience and direction on the new guys.

Making a cinematic camera effect that makes them think the universe is a little more detailed will not retain them, but it will make the game unplayable.

EDIT - off topic but i cant be bothered to find the proper thread. But i dont feel too bad because you guys cant be bothered to make being jammed look any different to not being jammed with the new remote effect icons. I dont mind so much when you guys **** up something complex and huge. But how can terrible design of the most basic features like ambiguous remote effect icons go live without someone saying, "wait guys, this is just awful and doesnt do anything like as good a job as it should, or easily could"? Just make the cycle indicator a little thicker and white.
Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2016-02-05 19:37:27 UTC
Hi, Hope this is the right post, not great at forum navigation sorry. Was looking for posts to give feedback on with reference to the new camera, The other post seems to be when it was still on the test server not live.

1. What happened to the zoom feature with the orbit camera?
With the old orbit style camera you could use the left mouse button to 'free look/pan about' whatever the term is, then if you held down the left mb with the right mb still pressed and dragged the mouse forward or backwards you could zoom in and out of that view. That seems to have gone completely from the new style orbit camera.

2. This new first person view, it's very nice to see EVE from this perspective, esp with the zoom and faux HUD effect, the tilt when turning is great too, however, so far its only any use when flying directly at something, yes you can press C to look at something specific, but its not the same. Is it not possible to add the ability to pan around while holding down the right mouse button in FP view? I'm not sure why it wouldn't have this ability, after all we are not nailed into the pod.

Hope its still a work in progress as its hard finding a point to the new styles when you could do more functional viewing with the old camera, like actually looking at stuff flying about you, and the tactical was always easily available for those moments when you need to see the larger picture or distance between more spaced out objects/ships.

Thanks.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#137 - 2016-02-05 21:18:23 UTC
Only suggestion I have,

Bring back the old track function.

I preferred it better when the camera would natively track whatever I click.
Also, track functionality doesn't allow you to change tracking focus when in warp, which is another reason for why i want the old functionality back.
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#138 - 2016-02-06 03:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
Pretty upset that ability of tracking camera to follow ships as they warp off is going away. (as per feb patch notes) Seems we are losing this ability in old camera and new cameras)


This is a critical ability for scouts and during combat. Not sure why you need to remove this. Just makes things more difficult and tiresome.


one example... (there are many)

in a wormhole. Im watching some people at a POS because I think they are about to run sites. With the removing of the warp tracking... One of them warps off.. unless Im 100% focused on that ship and screen and move my camera to follow where they warp to Im going to miss it. Am I going to spend 30 mins to hour completely focused on some guy in his POS... No.

Currently the camera will automaticly track when he warps off. so even if im looking at another screen I can quickly look back and see his warp direction.

With this change I wont bother waiting around. Might just log off and play another game instead.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Onamata Poeia
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2016-02-08 02:34:30 UTC
Biggest problem with the new camera for me right now is the way that the tactical overlay setting does not seem to persist across switching camera modes/switching ships in space/jumping gates etc
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#140 - 2016-02-08 07:54:03 UTC
If you reverse the zooming changes i like it, if not it horrible. Extremely annoying.