Intergalactic Summit

There was a time when the very successful Amarr Empire held the greatest significance in our cluster, mostly by mowing over other races and enslaving them. I'm sure this was a very bright and fluffy time for them, but obviously the Empire has weakened in many ways, having to make compromises and concessions. They haven't really been able to improve, this slope is straight down and they will be pushed out of relevance. I thought I'd enjoy myself by listing all the ways that I can think of how the Empire has fallen.

• Through interbreeding and romantic interest across different social classes of different races, the purity of the true Amarr is diminishing and so too their caste society.
• The formation of The Minmatar Republic, the very existence of it, even the honest idea of it is an affront to the paradigm of Amarr expansion. The Republic is getting bigger, better established, more lawful and is prospering well despite the interference of the Empire.
• The formation of CONCORD proved the division and unity of the four great nations, putting everything not-Amarr on the same level as Amarr. It can't be undone.
• The Empire is not a leader in technology, in many ways fallen behind and have hardly been the innovators in practical inventions today.
• Sani Sabik and many other divisions of the Amarr religion are very alive and successful. The dogma has been diluted.
• Even after the Empire has slipped its grasp on slavery, Jamyl Sarum chopped away more with the 9th generation emancipation mandate.
• Jamyl's ascension violates customs in very big ways, proving that Amarr traditions are as pliable as their power.
• I'm here, as a "terrorist", speaking publicly against Amarr and there's not a damned thing they can do about it.

I'm sure others will be able to detail more, dusting off the truth so that others may listen.

"Through interbreeding and romantic interest across different social classes of different races, the purity of the true Amarr is diminishing and so too their caste society."

Whilst inter-racial liaisons may be relatively common amongst capsuleers, I have yet to see anything to suggest that this is the case for planetary populations.

"The formation of The Minmatar Republic, the very existence of it, even the honest idea of it is an affront to the paradigm of Amarr expansion. The Republic is getting bigger, better established, more lawful and is prospering well despite the interference of the Empire."

The Minmatar Republic is just a temporary thing.

"The formation of CONCORD proved the division and unity of the four great nations, putting everything not-Amarr on the same level as Amarr. It can't be undone."

It may put the four great nations on an equal secular footing, but it doesn't put them on equal ethical, moral or spiritual footings.

"The Empire is not a leader in technology, in many ways fallen behind and have hardly been the innovators in practical inventions today."

On the contrary, there are many areas in which Amarrian innovation is alive and well. Pharmacology for example.

"Sani Sabik and many other divisions of the Amarr religion are very alive and successful. The dogma has been diluted."

If you call the Blood Raiders getting kicked out of the Bleak Lands a success, then you are correct. But again you're assuming that the activities of capsuleers are a mirror of the activities of planetary populations. And even amongst capsuleers those who support the Sani Sabik are vocal rather than numerous.

"Even after the Empire has slipped its grasp on slavery, Jamyl Sarum chopped away more with the 9th generation emancipation mandate."

I've been arguing for years that slavery is only a temporary measure, and that the sonner the lesser races accept their fate the sooner we can get on with freeing them.

"Jamyl's ascension violates customs in very big ways, proving that Amarr traditions are as pliable as their power."

The Theology Council and the Privy Council are better qualified to judge what is or isn't a violation of tradition than you.

"I'm here, as a "terrorist", speaking publicly against Amarr and there's not a damned thing they can do about it."

I wouldn't dream of attempting to stop you making a fool of yourself.

You just go on telling yourselves that. Meanwhile, we'll go on being an ever-bigger pain-in-the-a** to your precious 'Empire'.

I think, this a point have you pull out of thin air and it shows more your mindset and the gallente cultural influence in your society; that you and the gallente like to talk about fictive problems and more about feelings than actual facts. So I see it more as a case of perceived problems won over reality based problems.... I give you an example... ahd talk with a Gallente long time ago... about: If there was anytime in history, where moral values were not important for the outbreak of a war/wars. I give him five examples where moral values havent play any kind of role and he goes: "Yes, but else?" I give him another five wars and he goes: "Yes, but were there else?". I give him another five wars and so on and so... and sometime... reality gives up and I hear myself saying: "You are right, there wasnt any war without moral justification." And I think this is here the case... I can bring you hundrets of examples... you would listen... because "It feels just so right."



This point gave me a little smile on my face. First you start from the assumption that CONCORD has no interest himself. FIne... but when I start from there I dont see your point... I see just the unity of capsuleers (not the unity of four nations).. I think even your Karin Midular had something like this in mind on the eve of the Yulai Incursion (thats is one point way I had to smile, it is always funny to see how mataris forget this point). Now?...... you will ask yourself; what is when I not go from my assumption out. When this is the point... you have just two choices a realistic approach or a theoretic-idealistic approach. If you choose one; you will end on the point where you find out that CONCORD is his own player. If you choose two you will find out that CONCORD is more a tool of the Pax Amarria the ammarian peace.



Actually I dont know If I can spoil, but the first inmmortal soldiars in EVE will come from us the Amarr, the Templar One.


I have to go for now... but no fear the other points gets their anwer as well.

What can the Amarr hope to gain? What an interesting question, even if the answer should be obvious enough to be on the same level as the realization that water is wet. Of further interest is the fact that you pose a question in the title of this communique and then seem to post a list for the purposes of comforting yourself. That oddity aside I'll address the question posed in the title, as I see others are already trying to offer point for point rebuttals.

Firstly, to the question of what the Amarr can hope to gain, it is quite simple really. The Amarr hope to spread the faith to those in the cluster who do not have it. Nothing more and nothing less is truly desirable from the perspective of Orthodox Amarria. The goal of any truly pious and devout Amarrian is to bring others the message of God. In fact, for the most part, other worldly considerations are generally dismissed for the sake of that singular goal. Thousands of years of existence, of progress, and of teaching make the spread of the Amarr faith across the cluster into the driving point behind an entire society and people.

Now I'm sure that to many the idea of acting upon faith rather than concrete and tangible actions and reactions is strange, even laughable. However, to Orthodox Amarria, the opposite is true. To act upon worldly concerns rather than spiritual ones is something of an oddity, and some would say rather dangerous. The teachings of Orthodox Amarria make very few demands upon a person, in general one could say there are two things demanded of a person within the Amarr faith. First is that they live their lives as morally good and just people. Second is that they help others to live as morally good and just people. In some sense, these two things go hand-in-hand with each other. In doing either of the two a person is indeed doing both without even realizing it.

Something must be understood at this point. The spread of the faith is of paramount importance to anyone who truly embraces Amarrian teachings. But the Amarr do not spread the faith in some sort of attempt to earn God's favor or prove their worthiness as the Chosen. No, the devout of Orthodox Amarria spread the faith because spreading the faith lets others know the joy and splendor of the Divine. It isn't something a true believer dedicates their life to for the sake of personal gain, but for the sake of gains for other persons. Indeed to those who study the Scriptures and believe with every beat of their heart, every breath of their lives, there is no more noble pursuit than making the conscious decision to help another, spiritually, even if it is to the detriment of oneself.

With that in mind the titular question becomes somewhat ill-fitting to the situation. In the end, the more appropriate question would be, "What do the Amarr hope to give?"

And this is where I'm sure many people are just itching for the chance to respond. A good many of you, more than likely, would point out that not all people wish to receive that which the Amarr give, or that the very idea of slavery and the idea of helping others do not go together. These are entirely valid points in their own right, and they bring me to the next portion of my response, adding to the list of the ways the Empire has fallen.

• Orthodox Amarria now embraces tradition and elevates it, in some cases above, faith itself.


• Corruption of the faith is arguably rampant. Examples of this can be found in many places, be it unscrupulous merchants or Holders who see their slaves more as property to be used rather than wards to be cared for.


• The line between pride and hubris has faded, leading many to laud acts of excessive pride as if in it's excess it is a virtue rather than a failing.

Uraniae Fehrnah, that is more the response I was hoping and I'm happy to see such effort put into a meaningful response. I am thankful for that, though I agree with none of it, and I have a question just for you.

If the Jove swept across the entire cluster enslaving people with the selfless intent of spreading the majesty of God, would you be okay with becoming their slave?



Of course I don't, but I have faith that what I believe in my heart is true.

"Remind me who is in charge of the republic... the Elder, the elected government, or the tribes? It's becoming increasingly difficult to determine who makes your "policy" with each branch acting of their own accord."

Who is in charge of the Empire? Jamyl Sarum? The holders? the council? The citizens? God? The Republic is ragged group, which is to be expected when brought into existence by such diverse groups with the assistance of the Federation. We might be children, but we're no longer slaves and now it is for us to decide what freedom means.

"Can and will. Or have you already forgotten some of your 'elders' blasting apart CONCORD HQ a few years ago? With scant repercussions I might add."

I didn't say CONCORD was powerful, just that the Empire's acceptance of its creation is evidence enough that they are not in total control.

"I'd ask you to check the fleet compositions of the vast, vast majority of large-scale capsuleer engagements. It's no coincidence you see far more Amarrian hulls for any 'serious' engagements. Because they are superior. Minmatar craft are left for skirmish fighting and running away at high speeds. Ships of the line for high stakes combat are nearly always Amarr."

I'll never claim Amarr creations are garbage, they are some of the most reliable ships I know of and that comes from centuries of experience. It's just that, even though the Empire hasn't reached a limit, they've sort of lagged in the race.

"Offshoots of the State religion have been around for thousands of years, and the Empire has done just fine."

The Empire survived, it's sturdy and deeply entrenched. I don't expect it to collapse so quickly, it's just the way the citizens live their lives is slowly changing and the government is losing dominance with every new sect and sovereignty.

"You are using Jamyl's release of slaves to criticize the Empire? Interesting."

I think it is a very commendable deed, ironically, and shows the Empire is changing. You'll never give up your God but your losing your grace.

"Jamyl's ascension was ratified by both the Privy and Theology council."

This does not disprove my claim.

"Any fool capsuleer with neocom access can speak their mind on the summit, as you have clearly demonstrated."

As I clearly have.

Wishful thinking does not reality make.

Quite right, Blake, quite right:

Ensuring that your nation's ethical, moral, and/or spiritual footing is beneath that of gaggle of fedoes has, indeed, nothing to do with CONCORD:

It's entirely Amarr's own creation.

And of course, Thar, if the Amarr get what they richly deserve - several centuries under the thumb of an oppressive regime - they will wail and gnash their teeth about persecution and injustice all the more loudly than the Minmatar ever did, and with far, far less dignity.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

You know, Silas, it's pretty amazing just how... wrong you are most of the time.