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Burner Changes 10th November 2015? Question to CCP

First post
Author
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#41 - 2015-11-15 06:03:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Anize Oramara wrote:
Well for me the Gila is pretty frustrating and random. Might give it another go just to be sure but it's why I built the orthrus fit in the first place :) Maybe theres a way to control drone aggro though the whole point of the ai is that you can't. I'd even be willing to try a cerb but that's because cerbs are kinda cool looking.

Basically be prepared to lose 2-8 drones... for the next few weeks. After the December balance changes, I don't know how the Gila will work without the drone HP bonus and the loss of CPU and a low slot. Between the changes to Burners in Parallax and the nerfs to the Orthrus and the Gila in December, I don't see these being the cakewalk that they used to be.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#42 - 2015-11-15 07:17:29 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Well for me the Gila is pretty frustrating and random. Might give it another go just to be sure but it's why I built the orthrus fit in the first place :) Maybe theres a way to control drone aggro though the whole point of the ai is that you can't. I'd even be willing to try a cerb but that's because cerbs are kinda cool looking.

Basically be prepared to lose 2-8 drones... for the next few weeks. After the December balance changes, I don't know how the Gila will work without the drone HP bonus and the loss of CPU and a low slot. Between the changes to Burners in Parallax and the nerfs to the Orthrus and the Gila in December, I don't see these being the cakewalk that they used to be.

It's also the lowest paying burner. Sad but no big loss.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Mojo Joo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2015-11-15 13:47:53 UTC
I am sure that the change is intended as a stealth burner buff, and now we are the guinea pigs for their change. Otherwise this was easy to get a patch in one or two days, for example by a temporary cut in burners logistic overall repping power to bring it back at normal levels... that if they indeed had any intention to "fix it".
Now we just get stuck in missions with ships who worked before, pinned down by a stealth change and burning guns in a futile attempt to kill that rats on steroids who not die anymore, then most likely losing our mission ship after we run out of charges or patience.

Is a long time already from when CCP **** me off greatly with their stealth stupid changes (remember the introduction of ECCM skill? That was a stealth nerf to ECM if you not get it yet Pirate ) also other idiotic game play changes, like sentries nerfing (before you jump and contradict me remember that years ago gate sentries had shoot outlaw drones, protecting small ships as well, like AF, gate sentries had shot any outlaw as long he had 15 minutes criminal flag, and also aggression mechanics of sentries had not allowed you before ******** game play mechanics, like that when you shoot a guy, warp out and back and then you are free to shoot him again forever without sentries intervention, even if that guy has not shoot back at any moment, etc, etc).

To cut the crap and not waste my time anymore, i will do what i was tempted to do for so long and uninstall this damn game. For real.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#44 - 2015-11-15 17:32:01 UTC
As an update to my previous post -

Imperial Navy burner - changed. Repping power increased, damage applied decreased
Federal Navy burner - changed. Repping power increased, damage applied decreased
Republic Navy burner - changed. Repping power increased, damage applied decreased

Caldari Navy burner - unchanged.

So my question now CCP Lebowski is do I bug report the first 3 or the Caldari Navy burner?

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#45 - 2015-11-15 20:40:23 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Well for me the Gila is pretty frustrating and random. Might give it another go just to be sure but it's why I built the orthrus fit in the first place :) Maybe theres a way to control drone aggro though the whole point of the ai is that you can't. I'd even be willing to try a cerb but that's because cerbs are kinda cool looking.

Basically be prepared to lose 2-8 drones... for the next few weeks. After the December balance changes, I don't know how the Gila will work without the drone HP bonus and the loss of CPU and a low slot. Between the changes to Burners in Parallax and the nerfs to the Orthrus and the Gila in December, I don't see these being the cakewalk that they used to be.

Drone aggro seems mostly controllable by waiting for the npcs to get into orbit range and then firing 3-4 volleys at one of the sentinels. I also run with a target painter and a corpum nos so perhaps those generate additional aggro. Although sometimes it does just seem hellbent on killing drones. but t1 vespas are so cheap meh. the time wasted is more annoying.

No hp bonus change afaik https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=451065&find=unread
-1 low slot -20 cpu. which pretty much means -1 damage mod, I'm thinking of dropping the BCU first, but maybe a DDA depending on how drone aggro feels.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2015-11-15 22:29:23 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Well for me the Gila is pretty frustrating and random. Might give it another go just to be sure but it's why I built the orthrus fit in the first place :) Maybe theres a way to control drone aggro though the whole point of the ai is that you can't. I'd even be willing to try a cerb but that's because cerbs are kinda cool looking.

Basically be prepared to lose 2-8 drones... for the next few weeks. After the December balance changes, I don't know how the Gila will work without the drone HP bonus and the loss of CPU and a low slot. Between the changes to Burners in Parallax and the nerfs to the Orthrus and the Gila in December, I don't see these being the cakewalk that they used to be.

Drone aggro seems mostly controllable by waiting for the npcs to get into orbit range and then firing 3-4 volleys at one of the sentinels. I also run with a target painter and a corpum nos so perhaps those generate additional aggro. Although sometimes it does just seem hellbent on killing drones. but t1 vespas are so cheap meh. the time wasted is more annoying.

No hp bonus change afaik https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=451065&find=unread
-1 low slot -20 cpu. which pretty much means -1 damage mod, I'm thinking of dropping the BCU first, but maybe a DDA depending on how drone aggro feels.



I am lacking a few skills to V so actually run the Gila currently with two Shield Relays in the lows for safety. It still has enough DPS to do the job just takes a little longer and you lose a few drones. With good skills the nerfed Gila will still be fine.

Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
someone mentioned MGC with range scripts not working in a thread somewhere. although I haven't had that issue myself, but I also don't really use MGCs at all.


I do not think those ranged scripts have ever worked outside EFT.

This is the bug thread and it does seem like its been put in the too hard basket for now.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=446403&find=unread
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#47 - 2015-11-15 23:48:56 UTC
yea bring a mobile depot and 4 sprs, I usually refit one while my launchers are reloading as the BCU does nothing and it adds some safety, and swapping to 2 sprs is almost completely safe.

as far as I can tell the range scripts do work. With the polar garmur and rage rockets I'm sitting right on the edge of effective range at 22km and hitting, if the range script didn't work I'd be ~2km out of range.

although makes me wonder about the missile disruptors that are supposed to come out in December.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2015-11-16 00:59:02 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
yea bring a mobile depot and 4 sprs, I usually refit one while my launchers are reloading as the BCU does nothing and it adds some safety, and swapping to 2 sprs is almost completely safe.

as far as I can tell the range scripts do work. With the polar garmur and rage rockets I'm sitting right on the edge of effective range at 22km and hitting, if the range script didn't work I'd be ~2km out of range.

although makes me wonder about the missile disruptors that are supposed to come out in December.


You will still get the unscripted range boost and if you are kiting away rather than orbiting you may be getting a bit more range there.

Easy way to check is unload the script to cargo next mission and see if you still hit.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#49 - 2015-11-16 03:06:41 UTC
Just tried the hawk team mission again. It is still broken, unless this is now intended.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#50 - 2015-11-16 04:32:50 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Just tried the hawk team mission again. It is still broken, unless this is now intended.

Odd that if it wasn't it hasn't been addressed yet...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#51 - 2015-11-16 08:28:18 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Just tried the hawk team mission again. It is still broken, unless this is now intended.

Last message we got from CCP was that it was not intended. I guess if we don't get any feedback some time this week we can do another round of bug reports since it's now officially a bug.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Yadaryon Vondawn
Vicanthya
#52 - 2015-11-16 20:18:01 UTC
Did the Vengeance team burner just moments ago, hadnt experienced the (unintended) changes before. I think I will avoid that mission in the future. Had to burn my hardener and guns well over 80% in order to kill them. Any update on this CCP :)?
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#53 - 2015-11-18 20:42:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Yea, ECM being frustratingly random even with OH and skills and rigs and killing my own dps and cap to get as high ECM strength and as many as possible is actually NOT the worst thing.

The worst part of all of this is when my missiles hit the burner. I can see them exploding on the hull of the ship and it registers nothing. I do everything I can and the game still gives me the middle finger.

And we still don't have a fix for this and no feedback. So much bull. I'm going to go play STO, call me when they bothered fixing their ****.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2015-11-18 22:21:20 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Yea, ECM being frustratingly random even with OH and skills and rigs and killing my own dps and cap to get as high ECM strength and as many as possible is actually NOT the worst thing.

The worst part of all of this is when my missiles hit the burner. I can see them exploding on the hull of the ship and it registers nothing. I do everything I can and the game still gives me the middle finger.

And we still don't have a fix for this and no feedback. So much bull. I'm going to go play STO, call me when they bothered fixing their ****.



Is it possible they are being downed by defenders but the graphics incorrectly shows a hit ?

EVE is very much a game where what happens on screen is not necessarily what is "really" happening (looking cloaked when you are actually not being the classic example).
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#55 - 2015-11-18 22:56:23 UTC
the missile graphics are an approximation and are "cool" because you can see the missiles leaving the launcher. personally I think they should bring back the glowing balls of doom that are fired from the center of your ship as accurate and visible beats the hell out of a cool approximation, that you can't even see if you zoom out, or are shooting at long ranges.

that said I just had a mission where the damage logs didn't even show up on screen. they appear to be in the log, but I don't really want to fly with that open all the time.

even so, with ~30km javs 220 heated dps kills the burner nice and quick once the logi are jammed out, I'm liking the setup a lot.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Mojo Joo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2015-11-19 22:33:02 UTC
Still not fixed yet?
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2015-11-19 23:00:56 UTC
Mojo Joo wrote:
Still not fixed yet?



My hunch is with next major patch,
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#58 - 2015-11-19 23:07:34 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Mojo Joo wrote:
Still not fixed yet?



My hunch is with next major patch,

They'd need to somehow stop breaking the game every time they try and fix things first. It's getting kinda silly.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#59 - 2015-11-19 23:09:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ploing
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Mojo Joo wrote:
Still not fixed yet?



My hunch is with next major patch,



yeah but sorry thats 6 weeks. asked about new infos about 2 days ago in my bug report comments but nothing happend.
wish they gave up these 6 weeks updates.

they introducing more and more bugs every time.
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2015-11-22 12:14:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Plantgenet
Anize Oramara wrote:
Yea, ECM being frustratingly random even with OH and skills and rigs and killing my own dps and cap to get as high ECM strength and as many as possible is actually NOT the worst thing.

The worst part of all of this is when my missiles hit the burner. I can see them exploding on the hull of the ship and it registers nothing. I do everything I can and the game still gives me the middle finger.

And we still don't have a fix for this and no feedback. So much bull. I'm going to go play STO, call me when they bothered fixing their ****.


Your issue is probably unrelated, missile wise, to what you think it is.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3f38ok/major_bug_with_missile_volleys_completely/
Here have a wall of text to read...
tl;dr the flight time you see is something of an average of what is actually happening because eve works in ticks of 1hz.
so a flight time of 6.4 seconds actually means some missiles have a flight time of 6 seconds and others have a flight time of 7 seconds and because of this missiles at optimal range don't always hit. (or something like that.)