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Why do off grid links exist?

Author
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
Pen Is Out
#81 - 2015-11-19 20:57:30 UTC
Silverbackyererse wrote:
@ Cearain

How on earth can you interpret my post as defending anything?
I was simply expressing that I'm over reading the same old gripes from the same old people in the same old threads.
However I will concede that it was definitely a shiptoast of questionable quality. I would however like to point out that it takes a shiptoaster to know a shiptoaster.

Lol

@ Demerius

Dago has >100m SP - he has plenty of uses - links are just one of his many talents.
So, no plans to unsub him and no you can't have my stuffz. You couldn't handle my stuffz.
How you going anyways man? Last time I saw you mooching around Okkamon you were travelling with a T3 links ship. What is it they say about glass houses and stones?

P


I already said links are so batshit insane overpowered that it's stupid not to use them. That realization doesn't contradict my position that well, links are batshit insane overpowered and possess a level of risk that's not commiserate with the benefit they provide.

So I will fly with links whenever possible until OGB gets glassed from orbit with the nuclear nerf missile they so richly deserve.

On that day, I shall have my mop and bucket ready to collect the flood of tears from "elite solo pvp'ers" who are trash without their little friend. Or two - give my regards to CAANON.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Shadow Cartel
#82 - 2015-11-19 22:09:26 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


On that day, I shall have my mop and bucket ready to collect the flood of tears from "elite solo pvp'ers" who are trash without their little friend. Or two - give my regards to CAANON.



But you will also not have them on that day - So you will still get dunked.

Either way - Your tears will continue to flow.


What will you cry about next?? ECM?? Logi?? Fleets??
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#83 - 2015-11-20 02:58:02 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


On that day, I shall have my mop and bucket ready to collect the flood of tears from "elite solo pvp'ers" who are trash without their little friend. Or two - give my regards to CAANON.



But you will also not have them on that day - So you will still get dunked.

Either way - Your tears will continue to flow.


What will you cry about next?? ECM?? Logi?? Fleets??


Prolly Command Destroyers.
Madrax573
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#84 - 2015-11-20 05:05:22 UTC
CD's sound 'interesting'

but yeah like most things people aren't willing to adapt to they will be whined about!!
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#85 - 2015-11-20 10:15:25 UTC
Never really relied on OGBs at all. Main reason why I do not pvp in lowsec. If someone comes along and cleans my clock, I want to know it was because he was just better than me, not because he had a T3C boosting him to godhood.

If they decide to remove OGBs, then I might wander back into lowsec again.
Gorthanator
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2015-11-21 10:41:40 UTC
Can't imagine that they had a discussion where they said "we are going to make it mandatory to have to buy and fund a second account in order to be competitive at PVP" I personally think they wanted something for players with old characters that weren't interested in industry or caps to dump skillpoints in and to be ongrid links. They don't work like that in my experience and I Don't like em personally but that argument has been done to death.

it's a mechanic that needs work lets hope they are.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#87 - 2015-11-21 12:43:23 UTC
Theres a huge number of things in eve for which you need a second account to be competitive.

Complaining about that at this point is kind of silly. Specially when you are so selective with the critique.
Gorthanator
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2015-11-21 13:02:08 UTC
You have an opinion and I have an opinion but the question in the OP is, why do they exist? which invites us to speculate. I just added my voice to other people who have criticised the mechanic. is it game breaking no, is it game enhancing no.
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
Pen Is Out
#89 - 2015-11-21 14:45:20 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


On that day, I shall have my mop and bucket ready to collect the flood of tears from "elite solo pvp'ers" who are trash without their little friend. Or two - give my regards to CAANON.



But you will also not have them on that day - So you will still get dunked.

Either way - Your tears will continue to flow.


What will you cry about next?? ECM?? Logi?? Fleets??


I get dunked alot; doesn't really bother me. It's part of the game unless you are a hyper risk-averse carebear. I would prefer that when said dunks occur they do so because the opponent possessed superior tactics, speed and knowledge of the game rather than because they give CCP more money every month.

"If you take my links I'll just bring a Falcon or logi alt" is a bad argument, as has been duly demonstrated when it's tossed out as a red herring in every single thread on this topic. Suffice to say the risk/reward for those variants of assistance is at a far more appropriate level, for various reasons. (Must be risked on grid, appears on mails, only effective against one or two opponents, etc.)
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#90 - 2015-11-21 16:39:02 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


On that day, I shall have my mop and bucket ready to collect the flood of tears from "elite solo pvp'ers" who are trash without their little friend. Or two - give my regards to CAANON.



But you will also not have them on that day - So you will still get dunked.

Either way - Your tears will continue to flow.


What will you cry about next?? ECM?? Logi?? Fleets??


I get dunked alot; doesn't really bother me. It's part of the game unless you are a hyper risk-averse carebear. I would prefer that when said dunks occur they do so because the opponent possessed superior tactics, speed and knowledge of the game rather than because they give CCP more money every month.

"If you take my links I'll just bring a Falcon or logi alt" is a bad argument, as has been duly demonstrated when it's tossed out as a red herring in every single thread on this topic. Suffice to say the risk/reward for those variants of assistance is at a far more appropriate level, for various reasons. (Must be risked on grid, appears on mails, only effective against one or two opponents, etc.)


I'm thinking you haven't encountered many Recon ships.

As most of us have already said, we would like to have OGBs show up on killmails. Logi too.
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Space-Brewery-Association
#91 - 2015-11-21 18:16:58 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


On that day, I shall have my mop and bucket ready to collect the flood of tears from "elite solo pvp'ers" who are trash without their little friend. Or two - give my regards to CAANON.



But you will also not have them on that day - So you will still get dunked.

Either way - Your tears will continue to flow.


What will you cry about next?? ECM?? Logi?? Fleets??


I get dunked alot; doesn't really bother me. It's part of the game unless you are a hyper risk-averse carebear. I would prefer that when said dunks occur they do so because the opponent possessed superior tactics, speed and knowledge of the game rather than because they give CCP more money every month.

"If you take my links I'll just bring a Falcon or logi alt" is a bad argument, as has been duly demonstrated when it's tossed out as a red herring in every single thread on this topic. Suffice to say the risk/reward for those variants of assistance is at a far more appropriate level, for various reasons. (Must be risked on grid, appears on mails, only effective against one or two opponents, etc.)


I'm thinking you haven't encountered many Recon ships.

As most of us have already said, we would like to have OGBs show up on killmails. Logi too.


And a aggression timer ofc...

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"

Lucy Callagan
This Game Is Terrible
Warlords of the Deep
#92 - 2015-11-22 00:59:31 UTC
Do you even realise that you guys only discuss of OGBs in low sec ? Do you even realise that in null they are just fine and the only way for small gangs to compete with home defense blob?

So ok maybe OBG are worse than aids in low sec, i don't know, i don't play there and i hate that place.

But if bringing them on grid is the way to fix them in lowsec, it totaly fucks up null secs small gangs.
I'll just copy paste here what i already said somewhere else.
I you don't speak french just use google traduction or anything, it's 2AM and i'm to lazy to traduce sry

"Lucy Callagan" wrote:
"Nyvis" wrote:
"Lucy Callagan" wrote:
"Nyvis" wrote:
Mais tu vois des masses de frig t1 linkées qui vont combattre des newbies en plex fw. Le seul résultat, c'est que plus personne engage de peur que ton adversaire soit sous link.


ça c'est problème localisé au low sec uniquement, mettre les links on grid en low aurait peut-être un impact bénéfique sur le problème mais les conséquences seraient très differentes en nullsec.


J'avais pas pensé à cette approche, mais ouais, c'est pas faux, l'impact est très différent entre les deux zones (sans parler du highsec où tu peux wardec et avoir un alt link hors corp). Le solo est très différent aussi.

J'ai moins d'expérience des engagements de petite taille en null, donc j'ai moins idée de l'impact. Mais dans l'ensemble, je pense pas que ça change grand chose, à part ouvrir plus de possibilités aux groupes à bas skill points, vu que dans la majorité des cas, un gang undock pas sans boosts. Après, le fait qu'on puisse te snipe ton booster s'il est on grid peut être un problème.


Disons que ça desavantage clairement les groupes smg. Par exemple: une fleet de machin blob random vs 5/10 mec en kite @50-60 km(engagement type en ns). Les links du blob sit bien tranquilement sur la gate protégé par tous les potos et eventuellement sous reps pendant que les links su smg sont mwd on :mwd: @ 250-300 km ou a coté de ses poto.

Que se passe-t-il ?

Le links du blob ne courre aucun risque et n'est donc pas éliminable, alors que pour les 5/10 mecs, soit leurs links sont combat probé (et comme c'est sur une gate/station ça se fait literralement en <10s) soit deux ou trois jihad-inty suffisent a avoir un tackle suffisant pour le tomber. Et même si cela n'y parviennent pas, les links du smg courrent un risque alors que ceux du blob non.

Conclusion, le smg et encore plus le solo est désavantagé.

Quote:
à part ouvrir plus de possibilités aux groupes à bas skill points,

Un groupe low sp vs un blob revient a la situation suivante mais sans links donc c'est encore pire.
Dans un deuxieme cas de figure, un groupe low sp(i.e je sais pas moi ? Caracals, svipuls, vexor, inty, eventuellement typhoon ?) vs des joueur qui jouent habituellement avec des links(i.e Orthrus, Mach, Vigilant, rapier?)... Le resultat reste le même, avec ou sans links d'un coté comme de l'autre.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Shadow Cartel
#93 - 2015-11-24 04:15:32 UTC
Lucy Callagan wrote:
Do you even realise that you guys only discuss of OGBs in low sec ? Do you even realise that in null they are just fine and the only way for small gangs to compete with home defense blob?

So ok maybe OBG are worse than aids in low sec, i don't know, i don't play there and i hate that place.

But if bringing them on grid is the way to fix them in lowsec, it totaly fucks up null secs small gangs.
I'll just copy paste here what i already said somewhere else.
I you don't speak french just use google traduction or anything, it's 2AM and i'm to lazy to traduce sry




They are fine in low sec too and used for the exact same reason you state they are used for in Null sec.


Null sec isn't 'special' when it come to link use.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#94 - 2015-11-24 08:12:12 UTC
Links are broken and make my solo pvp broken, which is after all the main focus of eve.

Links are god mode and they are simply impossible to catch. Some may point to the fact that over 2 days more than half a dozen link ships have been destroyed in our current system push (pushes which never happen because there is no mechanical incentive to force people to do so all the time, rather leaving it to player choice driven by their own narrative, lame). But those people are lying and the role of taking hostile links out of the equation in a larger battle that is spread across up to 4 plexes with over 100 players is a joke when you compare it to my single kestrel trying to find half fit russian farming alts in back end systems WHO ARE ALSO BROKEN BECAUSE THEY KEEP WARPING AWAY!!!!!!!

Links are simply broken because they interfere with my choice to fly alone when other people use friends and alts.
Switch Savage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2015-11-24 12:36:12 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


On that day, I shall have my mop and bucket ready to collect the flood of tears from "elite solo pvp'ers" who are trash without their little friend. Or two - give my regards to CAANON.



But you will also not have them on that day - So you will still get dunked.

Either way - Your tears will continue to flow.


What will you cry about next?? ECM?? Logi?? Fleets??


I get dunked alot; doesn't really bother me. It's part of the game unless you are a hyper risk-averse carebear. I would prefer that when said dunks occur they do so because the opponent possessed superior tactics, speed and knowledge of the game rather than because they give CCP more money every month.

"If you take my links I'll just bring a Falcon or logi alt" is a bad argument, as has been duly demonstrated when it's tossed out as a red herring in every single thread on this topic. Suffice to say the risk/reward for those variants of assistance is at a far more appropriate level, for various reasons. (Must be risked on grid, appears on mails, only effective against one or two opponents, etc.)


Honestly though i cannot think of a single fight bar one in the last six months that i directly lost because my opponent was linked.
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
Pen Is Out
#96 - 2015-11-25 02:50:17 UTC
Switch Savage wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


On that day, I shall have my mop and bucket ready to collect the flood of tears from "elite solo pvp'ers" who are trash without their little friend. Or two - give my regards to CAANON.



But you will also not have them on that day - So you will still get dunked.

Either way - Your tears will continue to flow.


What will you cry about next?? ECM?? Logi?? Fleets??


I get dunked alot; doesn't really bother me. It's part of the game unless you are a hyper risk-averse carebear. I would prefer that when said dunks occur they do so because the opponent possessed superior tactics, speed and knowledge of the game rather than because they give CCP more money every month.

"If you take my links I'll just bring a Falcon or logi alt" is a bad argument, as has been duly demonstrated when it's tossed out as a red herring in every single thread on this topic. Suffice to say the risk/reward for those variants of assistance is at a far more appropriate level, for various reasons. (Must be risked on grid, appears on mails, only effective against one or two opponents, etc.)


Honestly though i cannot think of a single fight bar one in the last six months that i directly lost because my opponent was linked.


Well, good for you. I see fights or the lack thereof on a daily basis decided by links.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#97 - 2015-11-25 03:15:17 UTC
Everyone knows i use links. I have no lack of fights.

Perhaps the problem with you is something else?
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#98 - 2015-11-25 04:26:24 UTC
In my humble opinion removing off grid links without completely reworking links will essentially kill small gangs. Please know I'm not pro link alts at all, I'm in the camp all links off gird, on grid, whatever should be completely removed from the game. If CCP decides to remove off grid boost they need to make on grid boost an active activity so that the person running links has to target specific players and only those players get the link their targeted with similar to applying dps or reps. When one person reps someone the whole fleet doesn't get repped or if some applies targeted dps the whole fleet doesn't take damage. Boost should require thought and action on the part of the person flying the ship and should affect only targeted people.
Aves Asio
#99 - 2015-11-25 12:34:57 UTC
Switch Savage wrote:
Honestly though i cannot think of a single fight bar one in the last six months that i directly lost because my opponent was linked.


Thats because you have the advantage of knowing who uses links in your area.
Switch Savage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2015-11-25 13:56:07 UTC
Well for a start you should should gain Intel about players in your area so everyone should have that advantage. I also fight linked PvPers with decent counters if i have them available. I also use links myself when roaming in larger more expensive ships just so we are clear.

There are however very few situations where links purely decide the outcome of the fight and in those that they do, i admit it can be frustrating. A lot of people seem to simply find it easier to roll over, die and complain rather than adapt to an opponent though.

For example I was flying an arty Svipul and my prey was flying a autocannon Svipul. Once i had confirmed his max cold m/s i judged he had snakes but no links. His speed spiked and i wrongly put that down to him overheating to catch me so i heated my web/prop and waited for him to close. His scram landed at the same range my overheated web did and he ended up catching me.

Now my first thought after the fight was not "damn links so OP". I was simply annoyed at myself for incorrectly assuming his speed increase was a result of him overloading, when it was actually him turning links on. This was MY mistake I learnt from it and moved on and did not instantly complain for links to be removed. It makes for a more dynamic PvP environment in my opinion and anyone saying they are a barrier for entry into PvP is not a good PvPer.