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Decloaking red inactive players

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Janis Goblin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-11-07 12:30:27 UTC
We often see one or more reds in our system, parked and cloaked up to stop mining by simply beeing there.
Often these players are passive and pay no attention to the game, when they are in position and cloaked up.

I surgest, that we get a skill to decloak these "parked" players by triangulating them. Much like you can find the position of a cellphone or a HAM-radio.

3 players with this skill homing in on the parked player, decloaking him and removing the treat.

An active cloaked player could easily avoid this by moving.

Regards
Janis
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#2 - 2015-11-07 12:32:56 UTC
Was this the thread you were looking for?Pirate

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#3 - 2015-11-07 13:09:02 UTC
If he is paying no attention to the game and is afk why do you stop mining?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Mag's
Azn Empire
#4 - 2015-11-07 13:26:46 UTC
Thanks for not bothering to look for an open thread on this subject OP.

Your lack of awareness may be an indicator, of why you are affected so profoundly from psychological warfare.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#5 - 2015-11-07 13:31:13 UTC
NO - because cloaked is cloaked.
High sec dwellers have to deal with reds in system all the time an you know what they never know why or what they are there for. In nul sec anything red is potential serious problem and you know that and because of the extremely limited number of players in an average low sec system it is EXTREMELY easy for you to keep watch for them. I am always amazed by the number of players that call high sec dwellers "care bears" and "risk averse" yet this request proves that nul sec players are just as risk averse as those care bears they are always complaining about. So I say suck it up, take the chances and keep mining like they have to in high sec when a red shows up, or you know prove your risk averse nature and dock up to protect yourself.

To make sure this is clear.
No you cannot have a new ability to de-cloak a player AFK or otherwise.
Slang Drex
Botany Bell
#6 - 2015-11-07 16:57:25 UTC
nerf local, problem solved Roll
Madd Adda
#7 - 2015-11-07 17:30:26 UTC
Slang Drex wrote:
nerf local, problem solved Roll

that doesn't solve that there are cloaked people that can jump you at anytime.

Carebear extraordinaire
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2015-11-07 17:45:25 UTC
Paikis wrote:
This thread comes up on almost a weekly basis. In fact, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a nerf cloaking thread in the first 2 pages on this forum section. Almost every single one of them goes like this:

1. OP posts a post with a new (lol) idea that always boils down to some variation of the following:
- "There's a big meanie who is sitting in my system and not doing anything, but I don't know where he is and I can't ever just go next door. I can't find said meanie and even though I know that he's probably at work and poses no threat at all, I wont do anything in my system that I absolutely can't leave ever because he might not be at work and I might lose a ship. CCP please stop the meanie from being able to do nothing to me because he's probably at work"

2. Thread gets trolled because its been done literally to death. This horse has been beaten so hard and so often that it's little more than a memory of a memory of a red smear on the grass, and yet it STILL WONT DIE! In fact it's been done so many times that this particular horse is now undead; even if it does die, it will still be remembered and parodied.

3. Someone comes along and suggests that AFK cloakers can't hurt you, because they are, by their very definition, AFK. No one ever lost a ship to someone who ISN'T PLAYING THE GAME.

4. Someone else comes along and points out that while the cloaker might be AFK, he might not be, and so we have Schrodinger's Hot Dropper. The cyno pilot who might be AFK... but he might not be as well, and you will only know for sure when he decloaks, points and lights his candle. (Yes, I know this isn't how the cat works)

5. Someone else comes along and suggests that you use bait and setup a TARP. Or have a defence fleet on standby. Heaven forbid you have to actually fight to defend your space.

6. A further person comes along and suggests that the problem isn't cloaking AFK in your system that you can't possibly leave ever, but that you KNOW that the person is AFK in your system... and perhaps local should be removed because free 100% accurate intel is probably not the best thing in the game and if you didn't know that the big meanie was in your system, you wouldn't be worried about leaving the undock/POS.

7. Then another person pokes their head in and complains that local is 100% NEEDED because D-Scan and probing are such bad mechanics, and IF YOU TAKE MY LOCAL AWAY IM QUITTING FOREVER AND NO YOU CAN'T HAVE MY STUFF!

8. Someone asks if they can have 7's stuff.

We end up with another thread which goes on for pages and pages between complains about local, defence fleets, inability to just go next door, people who aren't playing the game but are playing the meta, lots of bickering and in the end nothing gets solved. CCP wont remove cloaking because it would mess with waaay too many things and it creates content (which is a good thing) by removing content (which is a bad thing) but they can't really think of any way to do it without a complete overhaul of the local and scanning systems.

Now that I've had this entire thread's conversation, can we just let it die? Please?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#9 - 2015-11-07 17:54:23 UTC
Janis Goblin wrote:
3 players with this skill homing in on the parked player, decloaking him and removing the treat.


In this thread: big tough null player cannot handle risk.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Faxat
#10 - 2015-11-07 18:05:46 UTC
Actually; it is very likely that we will have quite a few ways to counter these things once the citadels come online.

Afk cloaky camping can probably be countered by one of the new structures, titan hotdropping can be countered by cynojamming. Blops hotdropping can be countered by hunting the blops ships in the 5-30 minutes they are forced to stay in system, by using the same structure as earlier to decloak ships and scan them down.

That being said though, lock this thread until ccp is ready to discuss specific mechanics, then I'm sure everyone will be discussing these things quite vigorously.

Faxat out! o/
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#11 - 2015-11-07 18:45:11 UTC
Show me on the doll where the AFK cloaker touched you.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#12 - 2015-11-07 19:29:53 UTC
Faxat wrote:
Actually; it is very likely that we will have quite a few ways to counter these things once the citadels come online



Then the nullbear risk exclusion zone will be complete.

No null-null connections.

No capitals can project far enough to kill ratting capitals.

Blops range/fatigue is wholly inadequate to actually hunt in most null areas.

No actual way to meaningfully interact with the AegisSov system utilization mechanics.

No way to actually project harassment.

Welp. Time to go join CODE and kill people in High Sec, evidently the last place content is allowed to happen. Uedama here I come!

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-11-07 19:31:39 UTC
Linus Gorp wrote:
Show me on the doll where the AFK cloaker touched you.


Kinda reminds me of the typical 5-10 year old trick of "im not touching you" while holding a finger less than an inch away. The rage seems about the same flavor at least.

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#14 - 2015-11-07 23:24:42 UTC
What if you couldn't see them in local - would you have the same problem then? because apparently they're not at their keyboards (or at least not typing in local).
I think you'd be braver with no local intel.

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-11-08 02:39:36 UTC
Not sure why people play dumb on this issue. The problem is every ship that's cloaked in local has the potential to be sitting right next to you and the ability to open up a cyno dropping anything from a frig to an entire coalition on your head.

The fix is to do what most other games do, place the icon into dimmed after a certain period of inactivity. Why CCP refuses to make such a simple change is beyond curious.



It would help not only to improve the cloaking issue but also prevent the problem of hunting down players online but inactive rather than finding out they're inactive after spending hours using locators and spies trying to hunt them when they're not even playing.

Alternatively adding a [player name] was last active [days, hours, minutes, seconds] ago in info tab.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#16 - 2015-11-08 03:22:08 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Faxat wrote:
Actually; it is very likely that we will have quite a few ways to counter these things once the citadels come online



Then the nullbear risk exclusion zone will be complete.

No null-null connections.

No capitals can project far enough to kill ratting capitals.

Blops range/fatigue is wholly inadequate to actually hunt in most null areas.

No actual way to meaningfully interact with the AegisSov system utilization mechanics.

No way to actually project harassment.

Welp. Time to go join CODE and kill people in High Sec, evidently the last place content is allowed to happen. Uedama here I come!


You just have to pod Ripard Teg a few times.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#17 - 2015-11-08 04:18:55 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The fix is to do what most other games do, place the icon into dimmed after a certain period of inactivity. Why CCP refuses to make such a simple change is beyond curious.


Probably because there is no logical reason for adding it and it kills the immersion that a hostile environment should have. You're basically saying the ship or the system that mysteriously keeps track of players in a system should announce when a player is inactive. That would be a field day for gankers and people harrassing others. Not that local chat displaying users in system isn't immersion breaking as it is...
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-11-08 04:56:36 UTC
Zepheros Naeonis wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The fix is to do what most other games do, place the icon into dimmed after a certain period of inactivity. Why CCP refuses to make such a simple change is beyond curious.


Probably because there is no logical reason for adding it and it kills the immersion that a hostile environment should have. You're basically saying the ship or the system that mysteriously keeps track of players in a system should announce when a player is inactive. That would be a field day for gankers and people harrassing others. Not that local chat displaying users in system isn't immersion breaking as it is...

Logical reason is 1) 1 person cannot hold a system to ransom based on the potential to drop an overwhelming number of ships onto players. 2) the ability to filter out inactive players so one does not waste game time on hunting players who are not playing.

Both reasons are logical and would improve gameplay for those who are playing rather than those not playing. Emphasis should always be on players who are active obviously.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#19 - 2015-11-08 07:02:21 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Zepheros Naeonis wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The fix is to do what most other games do, place the icon into dimmed after a certain period of inactivity. Why CCP refuses to make such a simple change is beyond curious.


Probably because there is no logical reason for adding it and it kills the immersion that a hostile environment should have. You're basically saying the ship or the system that mysteriously keeps track of players in a system should announce when a player is inactive. That would be a field day for gankers and people harrassing others. Not that local chat displaying users in system isn't immersion breaking as it is...

Logical reason is 1) 1 person cannot hold a system to ransom based on the potential to drop an overwhelming number of ships onto players. 2) the ability to filter out inactive players so one does not waste game time on hunting players who are not playing.

Both reasons are logical and would improve gameplay for those who are playing rather than those not playing. Emphasis should always be on players who are active obviously.



and what is actively observing? if im clock and my ship is moving does that count?



why is it so hard for people not to just use gates to move systems. if the cloaker is active and trying to hunt well he will follow you if he truly is afk then he will stay in the other system. Literally every system in game is connected to a minimum of 1 other system.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2015-11-08 07:35:54 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Zepheros Naeonis wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The fix is to do what most other games do, place the icon into dimmed after a certain period of inactivity. Why CCP refuses to make such a simple change is beyond curious.


Probably because there is no logical reason for adding it and it kills the immersion that a hostile environment should have. You're basically saying the ship or the system that mysteriously keeps track of players in a system should announce when a player is inactive. That would be a field day for gankers and people harrassing others. Not that local chat displaying users in system isn't immersion breaking as it is...

Logical reason is 1) 1 person cannot hold a system to ransom based on the potential to drop an overwhelming number of ships onto players. 2) the ability to filter out inactive players so one does not waste game time on hunting players who are not playing.

Both reasons are logical and would improve gameplay for those who are playing rather than those not playing. Emphasis should always be on players who are active obviously.



and what is actively observing? if im clock and my ship is moving does that count?



why is it so hard for people not to just use gates to move systems. if the cloaker is active and trying to hunt well he will follow you if he truly is afk then he will stay in the other system. Literally every system in game is connected to a minimum of 1 other system.

Active is recent input, mouse click, chat, mail whatever. Time is irrelevant really but some games go 5 mins others a few hours.

My corporation is called Cloakers and I have spent very large amounts of time cloaking in null and observing the effects. The most likely result of cloaking someone's system or systems (I have 9 cloakie alts) is that the system will empty. Using all 10 accounts I can empty a constellation.

It's not always a result of being afraid either, many corporations and alliances have a standing rule that you do not operate with nuets in local. Sounds stupid but the fact is most aggressive alliances and corps have dedicated cyno chars whose only job is to perma-cloak in a decent station system or valuable resource system and drop on those stupid enough to operate with nuets around.

The people in this thread saying stupid shite like "if they're AFK then why not mine" likely would be posting the usual "you deserved it cus you were mining with a nuet in local lols".

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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