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Mike Voidstar

Voidstar Free Flight Foundation

Likes received: 1,221

#481 - 2015-11-20 09:56:26 UTC

Black Pedro wrote:

Mike Voidstar wrote:

You act like you don't personally go out of your way to push buttons and provoke people into making those kinds of threats. I don't condone the threats, but I don't condemn people who have been intentionally provoked either. You are the worst sort of hypocrite, accusing others of crimes you pushed them to commit just so you can bring down even more pain on them by attempting to get them officially sanctioned in some way.

I think you should sit down and think about your position here Mike. Where else in your human experience is it acceptable to threaten another person and their family with death, or call them vile homophobic, racial, or misogynistic slurs? I don't care how bad your day at work was, how mad you are at yourself that you weren't paying attention or angry with yourself that you went to make a sandwich with your mining barge in the belt, or how much gloating that ganker did in local, but you have no right to threaten me and my family over a video game. There is not one other interaction or social situation where I have seen rational, otherwise intelligent people, saying it is ok to "not condemn" homophobic slurs or death threats against fellow human beings until I started playing Eve. I find the bad behaviour that the disconnect a monitor and keyboard spawns to provide a fascinating, and a little sad, insight into human behaviour.

This lack of empathy and to be honest, civil behaviour, is at the core of the toxicity that bubbles up from time-to-time from the rabid carebear community. Thankfully, most Eve players get that this is just a video game; a complex, unique virtual world for sure, and one specifically designed to stir up emotions, but it is still just a video game. You are welcome to despise, trash-talk, hate, deride other players in-game, but it is never acceptable to personally insult or threaten the person behind the keyboard.

Mike, you need to stop enabling other players who engage in this toxic behaviour. This is a game we all play for fun. Remind people of that when someone starts with the personal insults and/or threats against gankers or anyone else, instead of just standing back and "not condemning" them because you think that behaviour is justified when a player loses an imaginary spaceship.

Now *that* was funny. Well done sir.

Hiasa Kite

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 580

#482 - 2015-11-20 10:13:40 UTC

Black Pedro wrote:

Mike Voidstar wrote:

Many years from now, when World Peace is achieved, the International Committee of Love and Peace will convene to officially announce the first written case of Netiquette that triggered the chain of events that would ultimately rid the world of all that is evil. They will point to this post and simply say:

This.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Black Hydra Consortium. 16,296
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. Likes received: 16,296	#483 - 2015-11-20 10:18:29 UTC 6 And of course, ears so deaf that Black Pedro may as well have been talking to a stone. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.


Hiasa Kite Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 580	#484 - 2015-11-20 10:21:52 UTC 2 Kaarous Aldurald wrote: And of course, ears so deaf that Black Pedro may as well have been talking to a stone. That's offensive to all us stoners. Get it? HuUurRrR! "Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Kaarous Aldurald

Black Hydra Consortium.

Likes received: 16,296

#485 - 2015-11-20 10:25:31 UTC

Hiasa Kite wrote:

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

And of course, ears so deaf that Black Pedro may as well have been talking to a stone.

That's offensive to all us stoners.

Get it? HuUurRrR!

Come now, some of the best listeners I've ever met have been high as kites.

Seriously though, I really will never understand why the anniversary of such things as the birth of old Adolf and the Columbine massacre was chosen to be "international weed day."

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Black Pedro

Mine.

Likes received: 3,562

#486 - 2015-11-20 10:31:09 UTC

Mike Voidstar wrote:

Now *that* was funny. Well done sir.

What was funny? I didn't find the death threats against my family funny nor do I enjoy the slurs leveled against me personally for just playing a video game as it was designed. And I definitely do not find it funny you don't think it is necessary to condemn that behaviour.

I'm glad you find the whole thing funny, I guess.

Well, this thread doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Bumping is bumping. It has been with us forever, and will be for a while still until some time when CCP may change it and then it will not be. Then, a similar thread will emerge from the same people complaining about this hypothetical replacement mechanic which will still allow freighters to be shot in highsec, people who seem destined to be ever-confused about what type of game this is.

And the circle of Eve will continue.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?

Valkin Mordirc

Likes received: 2,991

#487 - 2015-11-20 10:35:37 UTC | Edited by: Valkin Mordirc

Is this really still being argued about? I know Kaarous is a tenacious son of a *****, ( <3 bby)

But really the argument is a well beaten horse by this point, so well beaten that CCP hired a Necromancer from Skyrim to keep resurrecting to it, so it may be beaten again.

I don't like Necromancers, those bastards use Ice based magic attacks and it sucks if you use a sword. So Kindly stop giving him a paycheck thank you very much.

#Endthefed...er...Necro.

=D

#DeleteTheWeak

Mike Voidstar

Voidstar Free Flight Foundation

Likes received: 1,221

#488 - 2015-11-20 12:55:15 UTC

Black Pedro wrote:

Mike Voidstar wrote:

Now *that* was funny. Well done sir.

Hmmm... How did we get there...

We "played a game" by dehumanizing another player and either destroying or taking what amounts to weeks of his efforts. Not content to let him sputter in anger, we then continued to harass him, mockingly sent him a survey to gauge his satisfaction, often destroyed a few more weeks of his work, and continuously provoked him into anger until he spouts gibberish in his impotent rage.

Then we pretend to take offense at his gibberish.

Lan Wang

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 4,111

#489 - 2015-11-20 13:03:28 UTC

Mike Voidstar wrote:

Black Pedro wrote:

Mike Voidstar wrote:

Now *that* was funny. Well done sir.

its clearly explained thats what this game is about yet people complain about it, its funny really

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Kaarous Aldurald

Black Hydra Consortium.

Likes received: 16,296

#490 - 2015-11-20 14:03:05 UTC

Mike Voidstar wrote:

destroying or taking what amounts to weeks of his efforts.

This is you people's problem.

It's not "weeks of his efforts". It's pixels, in a game about making and losing pixels. Do you scream and make death threats when you finish a game of RISK, just because it took a few hours for you to get the Kamchatka chokepoint?

Once again we come to the point where carebears can't seem to realize that this is a game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Black Pedro

Mine.

Likes received: 3,562

#491 - 2015-11-20 14:50:02 UTC | Edited by: Black Pedro

Mike Voidstar wrote:

We "played a game" by dehumanizing another player and either destroying or taking what amounts to weeks of his efforts. Not content to let him sputter in anger, we then continued to harass him, mockingly sent him a survey to gauge his satisfaction, often destroyed a few more weeks of his work, and continuously provoked him into anger until he spouts gibberish in his impotent rage.

Then we pretend to take offense at his gibberish.

So you are doubling down on the "he blew up my imaginary space-pixels and made fun of me so I can threaten him with death in real life" maxim? I'd hate to see how you might raise your children.

I've had enough of you. Have fun on your futile campaign to change Eve into whatever version of it you have in your mind.

Edit: Death threats and racial slurs are not "gibberish". Calling me a "doo-doo head" is gibberish. Telling me to "**** off" is impolite, but still gibberish. Threatening to **** my children or calling me homophobic slurs is unacceptable in any situation and is seriously antisocial behaviour that should be outright rejected by the entire community all the time, full stop.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?


Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. Likes received: 16,296	#492 - 2015-11-20 15:28:45 UTC 7 For someone who says he doesn't condone this particular vile behavior, he sure is going to great lengths to make excuses for it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.

Teckos Pech

Hogyoku

Goonswarm Federation

Likes received: 6,771

#493 - 2015-11-20 15:46:10 UTC

Zimmer Jones wrote:

Mike Voidstar wrote:

I have actually heard people refer to anything that inhibits a ships motion, webs included as well as stupider things like cans and space debris, as tackle, with your definition being referred to as pointing.

It's not as if there was an official tackle module other than for salvaging. Semantics gets you little, especially when the meaning has been discussed extensively already. You are arguing my choice of word, not the merit or its lack of my argument.

You don't like my initial argument. It's cool.

I'd not equate it with a cargo scanner, as that does not affect the target ship in any way at all. Bumping changes the ships course and speed.

So Teckos is being pedantic yet that last post of yours argues that there are no tackle modules, except those with the module label of "tackle." This is just being literal. The wiki clearly states which modules are tackle mods, but to save time for people not wanting to check external links:

" Tackling

As listed in the Glossary - Pinning down an enemy with Warp Jammers and Stasis Webifiers until reinforcements arrive. Several types of ships are well suited for this role. "

What people who are not the programmers and game designers think is irrelevant. You are arguing for a definition that is commonly referred to by players figuratively. It is a terrible thing that using the word literally now includes the definition of figuratively due to people misusing the term due to lack of understanding, now they consider their expanded definition to be the "literal" definition.

Yes now I'm being pedantic, semantic and taking your words literally, literally. Bumping and tackling are two separate strategies, both of which are not only described in no uncertain terms, but include instructions on how to do both. The people on the receiving end of these strategies have strategies to counter them, it is up to them to utilize and master them.

Perhaps a page needs to be added to the wiki and linked describing the counters, maybe then some of the uninformed can save themselves. I would even include links in my bio.

Pedro says he enjoys his playstyle of destroying the weak and vulnerable. I enjoy my playstyle of not being one of them, and the way i do this is multitasking my freight and hauling runs. It certainly can be exciting, I do make forays into lowsec as a dropoff point for my JF, because it saves time. Uncertainty, even with scouts makes it a bit of a rush every time. It seems we're the close to winning eve because we enjoy our roles and know it would be a hell of a lot more boring without each others style of play.

Easy=/= fun.

ed* damn, i gotta stop poking at my phone writing this stuff, editing is a pita.

Not empty quoting. Good post.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Iain Cariaba

Likes received: 3,460

#494 - 2015-11-20 17:01:51 UTC | Edited by: Iain Cariaba

Mike Voidstar wrote:

Black Pedro wrote:

Mike Voidstar wrote:

Now *that* was funny. Well done sir.

Hmmm... How did we get there...

We "played a game" by dehumanizing another player and either destroying or taking what amounts to weeks of his efforts. Not content to let him sputter in anger, we then continued to harass him, mockingly sent him a survey to gauge his satisfaction, often destroyed a few more weeks of his work, and continuously provoked him into anger until he spouts gibberish in his impotent rage.

Then we pretend to take offense at his gibberish.

I took the liberty of highlighting the important part you seem to be skipping.

Remember that this is a game. If someone get so upset that they have to hurl RL insults and threats over an occurence in a game that are nearly 100% their own fault, then they need to step back and get a grip on reality.

Teckos Pech

Hogyoku

Goonswarm Federation

Likes received: 6,771

#495 - 2015-11-20 19:10:46 UTC

Asuka Solo wrote:

This whole butthurt post (thats giving many a reader quite the laugh mind you), proves your as much of a "non player" as those risk adverse…

Can you stop using “risk averse” like it is something sort of thing that applies to some people but not others. It makes you look ignorant of foolish.

Further, the problem is NOT that the carebears are risk averse. If they were there would, literally, be no discussion here. A truly risk averse player will use a scout with webs, his watch list, and not fit his loot piñata with cargo expanders and 6 billion ISK worth of cargo. That is actually risk seeking behavior. Especially if you do this and then turn on the auto-pilot.

Point is, people who engage in risk seeking behavior should absolutely not be shielded from that type of poor decision making.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Hiasa Kite

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 580

#496 - 2015-11-20 19:27:12 UTC

Hello again Mike, I see you're still confused about a few things.

"We "played a game" by dehumanizing another player"
How? When? Can you cite examples? FYI, ribbing someone for being bad at a game is not dehumanising.

"either destroying or taking what amounts to weeks of his efforts."
A few mistakes on the part of the victim here. The attacker pulled the trigger, sure, but the attacker wasn't looking for that particular player, they were looking for a target. That player became a victim because he made himself an attractive target.

Also, when playing solo or even as part of a small group, you have no business flying in a ship that costs you weeks worth of savings. Period.

"Not content to let him sputter in anger, we then continued to harass him[/i?]"
Harassment is a bannable offence. Although, I doubt your definition of harassment lines up with anyone else's.

"mockingly sent him a survey to gauge his satisfaction"
Those surveys are also a great way of finding who's a good sport and open to joining your efforts to engage in some good honest piracy.

"often destroyed a few more weeks of his work"
Wait, what? So, a player flies around in a blingy ship, dies and thinks "that sucked, nothing I could be done to avoid that" then carries on as before and is surprised the same thing happens again?

This is what we call a slow learner. That's no one's fault but his own.

"[I]and continuously provoked him into anger until he spouts gibberish in his impotent rage."
I'm not the first to say this, but for someone who condemns RL abuse, you sure are working hard to defend it.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Teckos Pech

Hogyoku

Goonswarm Federation

Likes received: 6,771

#497 - 2015-11-20 19:28:43 UTC | Edited by: Teckos Pech

I am going to expand further on the point I made above. There is nothing wrong with being risk averse in this game. Whenever I see somebody write, “Stop being so risk averse,” I think, what a damn moron. There are damn few players in this game who are not risk averse. Let us consider some actual cases.

When a -10 guy wants to move through HS what is a good way to do it? Via a pod? After all, NPCs wont pod them. A fast moving ship that both aligns fast and warps fast? I contend that both of these things are a result of risk aversion. They are trying to avoid the problems inherent with having a sec status below a certain level.

You need to move between 2 NS systems (you don’t need to transport anything, just get from point A to point B) what is your best option? Clone jumping? A travel fit interceptor? How about a ship with a covert cloak? Again, I contend that these are the result of risk aversion. You want to get from A to B with minimal problems.

You are ratting in NS, do you:

A. Keep the local and intel channels open at all times, or
B. Keep them closed?

If you pick A, then you are risk averse.

You just a mail about a war dec do you do the following with your small POS?

A. Keep it up, or
B. Tear it down?

If you picked B that is the result of risk aversion.

If players do not do any of the above and they die, people point out they are doing it wrong and deserved to die. In other words, they were not being risk averse. Anyone using “risk averse” like it is an insult is a blithering and completely blinkered dumbass.

Now, what would a risk averse freighter pilot do?

1. Use a scout?
2. Use a scout or have another ship fit webs?
3. Use his watch list?
4. Not use auto-pilot?
5. Not load up too much cargo (ISK wise)?
6. Fit reinforced bulkheads?

What do those who are opposed to bumping complain about? They are complaining about players who did not utilize any of the points above. In short, they are advocating for players that are essentially risk seeking. And hilariously they then sling around terms like risk averse as if it were an insult…irony much guys?

If a player cannot be arsed to go out and take reasonable precautions to remain safe(r) in this game, then they really do deserve what they get. People arguing against bumping are essentially arguing for risk seeking behavior in the current environment. Instead of saying, “Freighter pilots need to be more prudent when moving throughout New Eden.” They are instead saying, “The penalties for taking excessive risk need to be removed.”

That is bad game design. Mike is fundamentally wrong. Daret is fundamentally wrong. Asuka Solo is fundamentally wrong. They don’t realize what they are actually arguing for.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Hiasa Kite

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 580

#498 - 2015-11-20 19:51:34 UTC

Teckos Pech wrote:

When a -10 guy wants to move through HS what is a good way to do it? Via a pod? After all, NPCs wont pod them. A fast moving ship that both aligns fast and warps fast? I contend that both of these things are a result of risk aversion.

I've always contended that little scenario is an example of risk mitigation. Risk aversion would be simply not flying through HiSec as a criminal at all, because despite your efforts you may still get 'sploded.

Consider a simple game:

You have two buttons. If you press the button on the left, you will get £10. If you press the button on the right, you have a 50% chance of getting £1000 or a 50% chance of receiving an electric shock.

Risk aversion would be pressing the button on the left.

Risk mitigation would be pressing the button on the right while wearing a pair of thick rubber boots.

Played enough times, the player that employs mitigation will end up considerably wealthier. The risk averse player won't get any bad shocks, but they enjoy only meagre prizes.

It's all semantics, really. But it's just the way I see it.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Teckos Pech

Hogyoku

Goonswarm Federation

Likes received: 6,771

#499 - 2015-11-20 20:13:00 UTC

Hiasa Kite wrote:

Teckos Pech wrote:

People who mitigate risk do so because they are risk averse. Risk averse does not have to mean you take no risks, you are just prudent about the risks you take.

The risk seeker on the other hand would press the button on the right irrespective of their footwear.

For all intents and purposes, the freighter pilot being bumped...was pushing the button on the right while barefoot.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Hiasa Kite

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 580

#500 - 2015-11-20 20:29:29 UTC

Teckos Pech wrote:

Hiasa Kite wrote:

Teckos Pech wrote:

He knew which button he was pressing?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

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