Skill Discussions

Then make those good arguements. Historically, we have a precedent of removed learning skills and then clone upgrades for the same reasons that I attirbute implants should be removed. There really is no good arguement to keep them.



That's such a weak arguement - if you've ran out of things to train, why do you care about other people's training?

implants = training times, great at training a char for pve things but lack any sort of pvp skill because he doesnt want to lose his shiney pod

no implants = great at pvp and can fly what he needs and doesnt care about training speed, because who cares about sp when your having fun blowing stuff up

There is an ongoing complaint that newbs can NEVER catch up to veteran players.
Implants give players an option to close the gap, or catch up, or even pass a player that is catchable.

I'm an advocate that SP does not = fun, so that whole theory of "need more SP to have fun" is something I disagree with.
BUT: I do like the possibility that I can train faster when I want to. And I suspect that most players will like it also.

The alternative means that , subscription member #1,394,123 will always be ranked as the 1,394,123rd best player in the game. He would have no chance to improve his ranking.

Implants should be a selling point imo. A tool to improve your character is always a popular gaming commodity.

You are not LOSEING skill points, by flying with no implants.
You are CHOOSING to train at base speed with less risk of loss.

You could choose to not use hardwiring too, but you would lose ROF, power grid, speed or some other benefit.
You could chose not to use boosters but if your opponent uses them, he will have an advantage.
You could choose to use T1 ammo, but....
etc.
etc.

Nobody HAS to use implants. It's a choice they make.
Doing away with them limits a players choices, but more important, it limits his ability to progress at a faster rate.

For me, I have been in thousands of fights. I lost some nice implants, and even some skill points when I forgot to upgrade a clone once. Most times, the loss was actually due to a small (or big) mistake that was MY FAULT. I know the pain well of lost implants.
But I still plug them in because SP is a fun part of the game for me. I'll always want the option.

Newbs don't need to catch up as such.

Sometime ago 50 million was deemed to be the point at which you would be more effective (I'm sure that's not how they worded it). But anyway, I'll call 50 million sp the sweet spot.

Most below that sweet spot will consider it important to train as fast as possible to reach that sweet spot. After you get to that point it's not so important. Which is why I think a lot of vets don't see it as being that important, because they passed that sweet spot ages ago.

Attributes really do need to go, because they force new players into training in one direction based on which attributes they have set as priority. Also attribute implants being expensive to new players mean they're reluctant to want to lose them or the training speed they offer.

The problem with attributes and attribute implants is that all the negative aspects of them effect more those that are below that sweet spot.

In short attributes and attribute implants are not good for this game.

But it isn't really, it's the mechanics that's effecting player choice.

After you reach the sweet spot, when you become more effective then you could say it's really more of a player's choice. But even then the choice is if you PvP then train slower, which is kind of a dumb choice really. Why should PvPers have to train slower than PvE players?

Players want to get up to speed, be a little more competitive, with attributes it forces new players into, avoiding losing attribute implants and having to spend time training with 2 attributes and for efficiency they are then stuck training with those 2 attributes.

Humans are generally geared towards efficiency and improvement, we don't generally tend to choose to do things in the most inefficient way possible.

I'm quite certain that I'm going to lose my implant set at some point. It's not a risk, it's a certainty. It has happened before, it will happen again.

As for humans being wasteful, I thought this community prided itself on being smarter than the rest.

I understand your point, and your last post makes it very clear. Good post.
What I don't agree with, is doing away with the option to train faster.

And I'd make a couple side points.
PvP'rs lose hardwiring too. Miners do not. I mean, your argument seems like it would naturally evolve to hardwiring at some point. And I think CCP likes the fact that exploded stuff is gone from the market.

How about a different kind of clone insurance? The kind that covers implant and hardwire losses?
Or how about 'degrading' the implants? lose a pod, drop 1 point of the modifier. +5's become +4's, then +3's, and so on.

I'd also add, the difference between 4's and 5's is not very huge in sp per hour.. You train at 2610, or 2700. The cost difference is sizable, so 4's is the logical choice for a good pilot. 1 plex should cover 20 sets if you only plug in the primary and secondary for your current skill. 40 million a pop for that loss. Is that really an issue with pvp pilots?

Quoting myself now.


Other than mining links for mining operations, I don't really see what use hardwiring is in PvE.


Certainly not for missions, although if I was doing missions and got one as a reward, I'd probably fit it.


Sure PvE players aren't likely to lose them, but then they're using them in a different way.


Not sure if that makes it clearer, but I'm about to drop of here, so going to hit the sack.

attribute implants dont affect ship performance? hmmm so slaves, snakes, halos etc do nothing? again implants are a choice just like everything in the game, "dont fly what you cant afford to lose" also applies to implants