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Crime & Punishment

 
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Also on the chopping block, wardecs

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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#41 - 2015-11-06 14:41:50 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
No, it's subterfuge so that incursion folks can fly bling and be in a non decable 'social' corp. They want the benefits w/out the risks. It's a crap propaganda campaign by a bunch of pampered risk averse space tittybabies.
What benefits? incursion folks already exist in 1 man corps which the roll if they get decced or NPC corps, and they hang around in private channels. Adding social corps won't improve their safety, nor will it grant them any further benefits.



So you're on my side? If a social corp is nothing beyond a private chat window and a mailing list... what's the point?
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#42 - 2015-11-06 14:45:15 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Tora Bushido wrote:
more normal corps = more people to war dec who might fight back = more fun for the HTFU guys like me. Twisted
lol, you're not a HTFU guy, you're a "my playstyle should always be easy" guy. You're a prime example of a carebear. Miners take more risks than you since they move away from the docking ring.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
See that's the thing, it's about getting a foot in the door and moving forward from that staging point. It's just a bad idea that will lead to worse things down the road.
Dat slippery slope. It's a fallacy bro. Any change could be declared to be a catalyst for further changes down the road, so if we go by your slippery slope fallacy, CCP should just stop developing EVE. If instead you look rationally at each suggested change as it is, not what you fear it would one day potentially lead to if they make several hundred other changes, then you'll get a lot further.



You just won the "Most obtuse non answer of the week". You have that special kind of special going for you.


My point is that this doesn't add anything to the game that isn't there, so it's not a needed addition to the game. You're just raging against something that isn't there and promoting something that is advertised as nothing.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#43 - 2015-11-06 15:07:56 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Here's my ***** about ALL of this. Eve is eve. Wow is wow. Elite is Elite.

What really burns my biquits is when folks come into this or the features and ideas forums and try to implement change to Eve to make it more like something else. My biggest gripe is the re re nerds that try to silk screen real life morals, ideals and concepts of fairness into my fantasy space game. When we log in we all bring out own personal code of ethics into the fantasy. That's great - it makes things interesting, but DON'T try to force your ethos on others by changing the game. Do it through player interaction. Leto is a good example. He likes some stuff in Eve and plays Eve for that stuff. He does the same in Elite. That's cool. He's not trying to change either game.

If you change the way eve is to mimic elite (stay with me here) you end up with elite behind and eve log in screen. That's garbage. You like Elite - freakin great, go play it. You like eve - awesome - go play it. They are both unique and you should be making you play choice at the login screen, not morphing one game into another.

If you want to make eve better and have an idea - great! Let's talk about it. If you want to make eve into some other game or try to force your morale code of ethics onto everyone trying to play a space fantasy game - FO GUCK YOURSELF!

You feeling me Lucas?
Yes, I'm with you. But there's nothing wrong with pointing out what other games do right and suggesting them as additions to a game. Especially considering EVE was so obviously built with the original elite as inspiration. And for the record, I'm not trying to change EVE into elite, I'm for keeping EVE as a sandbox with a variety of valid playstyles.

I say that, because do you know what I hate? Players who take a single aspect of the game (such as "pew pew" PvP) then decide that's the right way to play EVE and that all mechanics should be build around the idea of pushing more and more of that. EVE is a game with a vast variety of playstyles, yet many of those are crushed by the repeated demands for everything to allow some douche in a cheap ship to blow up easy marks. PvE has been neglected for so long that it's almost indistinguishable from how it was when I joined (which was over 10 years ago).

At the end of the day people like you will reject anything that allows more safety as being "like wow" regardless of if the suggestion originates from there. But CCP are now looking at their stats and seeing that more people join for and spend more time doing missions, industry, mining and trading than the "pew pew" form PvP, and by the looks of it they are finally starting to move towards changes to make those more appealing and entertaining. If you don't like it, you know where the unsub button is.



PVE neglected. Not changed in 10 years?

10 years ago - Belt ratting and lvl 3 missions.

lvl 4 missions
lvl 5 missions
wh and all the new pve content that introduced
incursions
data sites
radar sites
anomos
static DED sites --> scannable sites
drifter content
FW content
LP stores

This is what you call indestinguishable??? You really will say anything (no matter how wrong, stupid or inane) to stay in role.

You said it yourself - it doesn't feel any different. Here's why.

1. New content is added
2. Eve nerds (me included) disect it
3. Eve nerds produce a guide within 3 days
4. Eve nerds produce listings of optimal fits/ships within 6 days
5. New content is cookie cutter withing 2 weeks

PVE content is little red plus signs (oh wait, they got stale and were changed to geometry class) with one of several AI driving them around in space. We're smart, we tear it apart and move on.

If folks want PVE there are all the other games in existance for that. That's a literal fact. All other games offer PVE. What makes Eve different is that it isn't just pve. It's about player interactions on so many levels from the simple (+.01ing a market item) to the vastly complex (tweaking LP values for silly profit). I don't think you comprehend what eve really is. Eve is a set of guidelines and then hands off and see what happens. It's not about pve. It's about everything but pve.

It's arguably the best hard core industrial game ever invented. It's arguably the best pvp game ever invented. I think you're just too daft to embrace something out of your comfort zone.

TL/DR - You're right - I don't like this game - I love it (all of it - even the parts you don't understand)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#44 - 2015-11-06 17:16:55 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
Lol, see what the cat dragged in again. The forums were so much better without Lucas. And blocked. Twisted
When were the forums without me?

Serendipity Lost wrote:
So you're on my side? If a social corp is nothing beyond a private chat window and a mailing list... what's the point?
No.

They'd be a shared chat, and mailing list, and fittings and calendar, and corp ads, all things that could be done with web apps but built in-game. The benefit would be that groups like Spectre Fleet would be much more visible to people who don't already know they exist and it would be much easier for them to organise events without people needing to remember a whole bunch of urls and passwords for all the third party tools.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
You just won the "Most obtuse non answer of the week". You have that special kind of special going for you.
Are you sure you didn't just misunderstand it? The point of it was that there is no such thing as a slippery slope, and pretending there is is just a way to arbitrarily reject change.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
My point is that this doesn't add anything to the game that isn't there, so it's not a needed addition to the game. You're just raging against something that isn't there and promoting something that is advertised as nothing.
Improving graphics doesn't add anything to the game, yet that gets done and we're all fine with that.

And it would add to the game, simply by combining multiple memberships into a single place so it's easier to join, leave and moderate social groups.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#45 - 2015-11-06 17:25:16 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Tora Bushido wrote:
Lol, see what the cat dragged in again. The forums were so much better without Lucas. And blocked. Twisted
When were the forums without me?

Serendipity Lost wrote:
So you're on my side? If a social corp is nothing beyond a private chat window and a mailing list... what's the point?
No.

They'd be a shared chat, and mailing list, and fittings and calendar, and corp ads, all things that could be done with web apps but built in-game. The benefit would be that groups like Spectre Fleet would be much more visible to people who don't already know they exist and it would be much easier for them to organise events without people needing to remember a whole bunch of urls and passwords for all the third party tools.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
You just won the "Most obtuse non answer of the week". You have that special kind of special going for you.
Are you sure you didn't just misunderstand it? The point of it was that there is no such thing as a slippery slope, and pretending there is is just a way to arbitrarily reject change.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
My point is that this doesn't add anything to the game that isn't there, so it's not a needed addition to the game. You're just raging against something that isn't there and promoting something that is advertised as nothing.
Improving graphics doesn't add anything to the game, yet that gets done and we're all fine with that.

And it would add to the game, simply by combining multiple memberships into a single place so it's easier to join, leave and moderate social groups.



Improving graphics does add something to the game. It looks better when you play it.

You really can't get your arms around much of anything can you?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#46 - 2015-11-06 17:29:39 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
PVE neglected. Not changed in 10 years?

10 years ago - Belt ratting and lvl 3 missions.

lvl 4 missions
lvl 5 missions
wh and all the new pve content that introduced
incursions
data sites
radar sites
anomos
static DED sites --> scannable sites
drifter content
FW content
LP stores

This is what you call indestinguishable??? You really will say anything (no matter how wrong, stupid or inane) to stay in role.
And out of all of these, the only ones that used different mechanics were exploration sites and FW, and FW isn't even PvE! They may have added more with different names but they are the same content repeated.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
You said it yourself - it doesn't feel any different. Here's why.

1. New content is added
2. Eve nerds (me included) disect it
3. Eve nerds produce a guide within 3 days
4. Eve nerds produce listings of optimal fits/ships within 6 days
5. New content is cookie cutter withing 2 weeks
Actually, it's not different because the mechanics are exactly the same. Just because the number and type of rats is different doesn;t make it new content, the rats still do the same things in the same ways. Tee new upcoming content with rats that will go after you for standings and follow you through warp, wormholes and gates, that's new content.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
PVE content is little red plus signs (oh wait, they got stale and were changed to geometry class) with one of several AI driving them around in space. We're smart, we tear it apart and move on.
Exactly this. It's little red shapes. That's all it is and all it's ever been. It shouldn't be. It should be diverse, it should be unpredictable and it should be dangerous in itself.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
If folks want PVE there are all the other games in existance for that. That's a literal fact. All other games offer PVE. What makes Eve different is that it isn't just pve. It's about player interactions on so many levels from the simple (+.01ing a market item) to the vastly complex (tweaking LP values for silly profit). I don't think you comprehend what eve really is. Eve is a set of guidelines and then hands off and see what happens. It's not about pve. It's about everything but pve.
EVE is as much about PvE as it is about PvP. It's a sandbox game, with a multitude of different playstyles. If it weren't about PvE, then they would simply remove it, and they wouldn't show stats proving that more EVE players log in for carebear PvE activity than hardcore PvP activities.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
TL/DR - You're right - I don't like this game - I love it (all of it - even the parts you don't understand)
I understand all of it, I just don't demand that all players should be forced to play my way and punished for daring to try it in other ways. PVE is long overdue for a shake up and CCP are making the right choice in pushing ahead with that. And here you are crying because they might let people play together without being instantly crushed by large groups of bittervets with nothing better to do with their days than harass noobs for their 99% kb ratios. Pathetic really.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#47 - 2015-11-06 17:31:35 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Improving graphics does add something to the game. It looks better when you play it.

You really can't get your arms around much of anything can you?
LOL, so you're saying that adding tiny rocks to asteroid belts added more to the game than allowing people an in-game method of finding and signing up for the equivalent fleet-up, mailing lists and chat channels for group based content?

Stop being ridiculous.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#48 - 2015-11-06 18:26:41 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Improving graphics does add something to the game. It looks better when you play it.

You really can't get your arms around much of anything can you?
LOL, so you're saying that adding tiny rocks to asteroid belts added more to the game than allowing people an in-game method of finding and signing up for the equivalent fleet-up, mailing lists and chat channels for group based content?

Stop being ridiculous.



And there it is.

You say improving graphics does nothing to improve the game.

I say it makes it look better when you're playing.

And you quote me as saying adding tiny rocks to asteroid belts adds more to the game than allowing social corps (I paraphrased, but I did it accurately so it's OK)

First - WTF is wrong with you? Drugs, too many meds, not enough meds? Your posting is just bizarre.

Second - (literal answer) Yes, little rocks add more to the game - there are now little rocks.

Third - (philisophical answer) Yes, the asthetic beauty of this game is up there pretty high, and it's all about the details the graphics folks tend to. If you give CCP no credit for making a beautiful game you're a jerk. Does this social corp give the game anything as far as palyability - no. Funny you bring up Spectre Fleet. I've never seen you fly in it. Is this another example of your stunning ability to piece several things you don't quite understand together to come up with something so astonishingly wrong that you leave forum readers stunned?
Xai
Doomheim
#49 - 2015-11-06 22:19:06 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Xai wrote:
Opt-ins for war decs isn't a good idea. I would prefer to see simultaneous active war amounts capped and/or a big increase in dec fees. Even as a carebear corp in days of old, we'd occasionally dec someone for fun or profit.

I apologise in advance for being an NPC alt. I'm currently reinventing myself as a pvp pilot having carebeared for years and am starting afresh. Hopefully I'll be in a player corp soon.



If you can fly a drake and want to pvp - send me a mail. If we're a good match we'll go forward to greatness from there.


Sadly not yet, but soon :)
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#50 - 2015-11-06 23:43:54 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Tora Bushido wrote:
more normal corps = more people to war dec who might fight back = more fun for the HTFU guys like me. Twisted
lol, you're not a HTFU guy, you're a "my playstyle should always be easy" guy. You're a prime example of a carebear. Miners take more risks than you since they move away from the docking ring.

And you're a f1 carebear who takes less risks again cause you get your ship replaced for you.

Now we all know neither of the statement's we just made have much truth to them don't we?

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#51 - 2015-11-07 00:26:52 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Second - (literal answer) Yes, little rocks add more to the game - there are now little rocks.
Then you are deluded. There's no way that adding the appearance of tiny rocks to the game adds more than an entire new social corporation system. I'm pretty sure that what you really mean is that tiny rocks mean more to you than social corps do, which is irrelevant unless you plan to take over CCP at some point in the near future.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
Third - (philisophical answer) Yes, the asthetic beauty of this game is up there pretty high, and it's all about the details the graphics folks tend to. If you give CCP no credit for making a beautiful game you're a jerk. Does this social corp give the game anything as far as palyability - no.
I didn't say I don't give them credit for it, but aesthetics don't really add to the game, while social corporation mechanics would.

Serendipity Lost wrote:
Funny you bring up Spectre Fleet. I've never seen you fly in it.
You wouldn't, I don;t fly industrial characters in combat ships and I keep my alts pretty close to the chest so that people don't react to them based on my mains alliance and affiliations. That said, it would be irrelevant either way. Spectre will benefit from social corporations, Jayne himself has stated this. I suppose you'll tell me he doesn't know about Spectre fleet either, right?

Honestly, if you're just going to start throwing insults at me though then perhaps you're not quite ready for reasonable discussions. Let me know when you've calmed down some, friend.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2015-11-07 00:29:53 UTC
Ugh. Spectre fleet.

Fun... but goddamn, I spend the first 20 minutes muting everyone on comms.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Paranoid Loyd
#53 - 2015-11-07 00:30:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Lucas Kell wrote:
I keep my alts pretty close to the chest so that I can shiptoast all day long without fear of retribution.
FTFY

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#54 - 2015-11-07 00:33:04 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
And you're a f1 carebear who takes less risks again cause you get your ship replaced for you.

Now we all know neither of the statement's we just made have much truth to them don't we?
Actually, there's a lot of truth. Yep, I'm a low risk F1 monkey. My ships are replaced for me and I reduce my losses wherever possible. You see the difference between me and you is that I have no problem being honest about it, and I have no problem with my playstyle being change to force more risk and loss, hence my support for nerfs to not just sov nullsec gameplay but things like highsec trading where I make nearly all my ISK.

Watching highsec groups hide in docking rings with 57 neutral logi on grid, desperately clinging to their 97+% killboard ratios then having the nerve to call other people carebears unironically, now that truly is entertaining. Honesty would be better though.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#55 - 2015-11-07 00:38:01 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
I keep my alts pretty close to the chest so that I can shiptoast all day long without fear of retribution.
FTFY
lel, coming from you that literally means nothing.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Paranoid Loyd
#56 - 2015-11-07 00:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
I've got at least 10 people that camp me on a regular basis, a few of them are there everyday. It takes about two seconds to figure out who my other toons are and I undock this character on a regular basis, you however don't even post with a player that does anything, so I'm not sure what you mean.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#57 - 2015-11-07 00:48:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
I've got at least 10 people that camp me on a regular basis, a few of them are there everyday. It takes about two seconds to figure out who my other toons are and I undock this character on a regular basis, you however don't even post with a player that does anything, so I'm not sure what you mean.
I mean that I don't even remember the last time I saw you post something that wasn't a troll. Generally you sweep in, drop a line of irrelevance then run away.

Ed: Oh, and mine are hardly hidden like a ninja, and this character is my main so he does a fair bit.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Paranoid Loyd
#58 - 2015-11-07 00:57:06 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I mean that I don't even remember the last time I saw you post something that wasn't a troll. Generally you sweep in, drop a line of irrelevance then run away.
Quite simply put, only trolls see me as a troll. I post as others post. If the poster is being a cry baby, I call them out on it, If they are posting for no other reason than to flame, then I flame right back. If they post a genuine request asking for help then I help. You should read the other forums besides where all the trolling is, then you would realize how wrong you are.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2015-11-07 01:03:27 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
I've got at least 10 people that camp me on a regular basis, a few of them are there everyday. It takes about two seconds to figure out who my other toons are and I undock this character on a regular basis, you however don't even post with a player that does anything, so I'm not sure what you mean.
I mean that I don't even remember the last time I saw you post something that wasn't a troll. Generally you sweep in, drop a line of irrelevance then run away.

Ed: Oh, and mine are hardly hidden like a ninja, and this character is my main so he does a fair bit.


Sorry, Loyd here is likely one of the more respectful posters I have seen on here, TBH.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#60 - 2015-11-07 01:07:12 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
I mean that I don't even remember the last time I saw you post something that wasn't a troll. Generally you sweep in, drop a line of irrelevance then run away.
Quite simply put, only trolls see me as a troll. I post as others post. If the poster is being a cry baby, I call them out on it, If they are posting for no other reason than to flame, then I flame right back. If they post a genuine request asking for help then I help. You should read the other forums besides where all the trolling is, then you would realize how wrong you are.
I'm sure you feel that way, but mate, you're a troll. Read yor posts back sometime. I tell you what, though why don't we make it simple. Post on topic or **** off.

Leto... Roll

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.