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Tiericide / Ship Rebalance iniciative ?

Author
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#1 - 2015-11-05 12:53:17 UTC
I started playing during the Incarna expansion.

After not much ccp started rebalancing ships...


4 years later it hasn't finished yet.


I know you don't do that in a couple of months but on the paralax release there wasn't nothing rebalanced...

Because tities .

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#2 - 2015-11-05 12:56:07 UTC
Beware of any MMO that is 'finished'.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#3 - 2015-11-05 13:02:20 UTC
Redoing and rebalancing stuff over time is actually a good way of doing it, even if all the information and general changes are out all at the same time. Why? Because then its a gradual shift of usage as well as pseudo "new" content for players and a lot less to have to get used to changing rather than a huge information dump. So no I agree with how CCP is doing it. Allows for more gradual changes from both CCP and the player base, allows more small tweaks and tinkering to occur over longer to get that balance 'right' and keep ships and modules from overuse, underuse and OP related issues.


So I must say.... DOWN IN FRONT!!! /throws popcornTwisted

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#4 - 2015-11-05 13:04:16 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Redoing and rebalancing stuff over time is actually a good way of doing it, even if all the information and general changes are out all at the same time. Why? Because then its a gradual shift of usage as well as pseudo "new" content for players and a lot less to have to get used to changing rather than a huge information dump. So no I agree with how CCP is doing it. Allows for more gradual changes from both CCP and the player base, allows more small tweaks and tinkering to occur over longer to get that balance 'right' and keep ships and modules from overuse, underuse and OP related issues.


So I must say.... DOWN IN FRONT!!! /throws popcornTwisted



dont you think its about time to get blops tweaked already? or t3s? or.....

focusing too much on some stuff and neglecting others, lemme tell you my man, its an awful bsns strategy, just sayin'

Because tities .

Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#5 - 2015-11-05 13:09:51 UTC
posting in a stealth blops are useless thread

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#6 - 2015-11-05 13:35:22 UTC
Petra Hakaari wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Redoing and rebalancing stuff over time is actually a good way of doing it, even if all the information and general changes are out all at the same time. Why? Because then its a gradual shift of usage as well as pseudo "new" content for players and a lot less to have to get used to changing rather than a huge information dump. So no I agree with how CCP is doing it. Allows for more gradual changes from both CCP and the player base, allows more small tweaks and tinkering to occur over longer to get that balance 'right' and keep ships and modules from overuse, underuse and OP related issues.


So I must say.... DOWN IN FRONT!!! /throws popcornTwisted



dont you think its about time to get blops tweaked already? or t3s? or.....

focusing too much on some stuff and neglecting others, lemme tell you my man, its an awful bsns strategy, just sayin'

Considering blops arent in an awful position right now, and that T3s have been tweaked a bunch through module nerfs and buffs, module changes and hp nerfs........ nope not one bit.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#7 - 2015-11-05 14:56:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Petra Hakaari
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:

T3s have been tweaked a bunch through module...


You must be hypoxic...

Because tities .

Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-11-05 15:01:36 UTC
They're not re-balancing. They're balancing. Kinda like you imagine yourself trying to do while you walk with a front porch like your would-be you is sporting there. Balancing is done with a lot of cross-referencing, so the data becomes rather involved, and much trial and error ensues.

TL;DR Don't ask for too much too soon, you just might get it.

There just isn't anything that can be said!

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-11-05 15:14:01 UTC
The changes in steps is a good thing. Allows identification of holes or missing opportunities in a faction. The big ones got done right away, now it is fiddling. Parallax didnt seem like much, but there were some big behind the scenes updates.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Doddy
Excidium.
#10 - 2015-11-05 15:21:44 UTC
Petra Hakaari wrote:
I started playing during the Incarna expansion.

After not much ccp started rebalancing ships...


4 years later it hasn't finished yet.


I know you don't do that in a couple of months but on the paralax release there wasn't nothing rebalanced...


It is a slow process, to be honest it should be running as long as eve is running. Every change you make can unbalance other things and so you need to go back and fix those or roll back previous changes. To be honest there is not much left to do a major rebalance on after the big cap change sin the Spring. T3 cruisers are the elephant in the room.
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#11 - 2015-11-06 03:27:48 UTC
I think the difference between doing what's important now or going one by one is sort of like the difference with a car with a lot of dents. You could bang them all out, but they probably won't look as great still, or you could shell out and get it repaired, which would take more time/money. Instead of repeatedly playing whack a mole with the FOTM 'dents' they're trying their best to slowly smooth them all out instead.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2015-11-06 03:41:46 UTC
They got all the low hanging fruit and are now faced with the ships that will cause the most rage when they are altered. Capitals were always going to be a big job and after citadel hits there is only the other massive problem area to deal with. 2016, the year CCP finally deals with T3's.
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#13 - 2015-11-06 12:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Petra Hakaari
Markus Reese wrote:
[...]

Doddy wrote:
[...]

Bobb Bobbington wrote:
[...]





I agree guys, going slow is the way to go, but lets be honest: paralax had no rebalance, you're tellin me there's nothing more to rebalance out of capitals ? really ?


that hipoxic personage earlier said that the blops are kinda okay... well, let me tell you pal, marauders where too, yet with the bastion thingy and small tweaks they are awesome right now, are you telling me there is no magic ccp can do with blops?

i mean, there was this cpm guy like 2 years ago, the bald one, he said some pretty interesting things such as: allow cloaky ships only to refit on blops (this was before the mobile depo), and have a ship hangar that only allows bombers to get in... some other people suggested that they'd be able to fit cov ops cloak...the first two suggestions are awesome, the third one would make em quite op, but still, then are cool enough but they can be better without being op, and these are only 4 ships, the blops community has been beging for love for quite a while and this has been the first release since the rebalance began that there's nothing being rebalanced...


it makes me wonder.

Because tities .

ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#14 - 2015-11-06 12:56:19 UTC
well Capitals are a whole different ball game and those need a bit longer than the other classes. i wasn't expecting a ship class to be re balanced every single patch but they have done it a lot more frequent than i thought. give it time.
Doddy
Excidium.
#15 - 2015-11-06 22:18:53 UTC
Petra Hakaari wrote:





I agree guys, going slow is the way to go, but lets be honest: paralax had no rebalance, you're tellin me there's nothing more to rebalance out of capitals ? really ?


it makes me wonder.


You know capitals are getting completely redone top to bottom in Citadel right?

You are right about Blops though.
Marsha Mallow
#16 - 2015-11-06 23:07:19 UTC
These questions seem fair. Perhaps you aren't aware of where to look to monitor future/ongoing balance topics? That might be more to do with the forum layout and working out how to follow certain topics.

Features & Ideas < for proposed changes, keep an eye on the dev stickies
EVE Information Portal < for implemented changes with a request for feedback or for larger changes being considered

Some balancing/new ship topics I found with a quick skim of F&I:
[December] Balance Smorgasbord
[December] Module Tiericide - Warp Disruption Field Generators
[December] Module Tiericide - Neutralizers and Nosferatu
[December] Discovering a New Expedition Frigate
[December] Navy EWar Frigates
[December] Missile Disruptors and Tweaks to Missile Guidance Mods
[Future] Module Tiericide – Shield Rechargers and Others
[Focus Group] Tactical Destroyers
[Focus Group] Capital Ships Signup

That suggests there are massive rebalancing passes in progress - not just related to tiercide, but the release of new ships/modules to plug existing gaps and give people new things to OoOh over. I'm not hypoxic over a policy of continued balancing mixed in with fresh items. Would you prefer this was done quickly and permenantly over a year then never revisited? Actually I hope 'rebalancing' is an ongoing theme, rather than nerfing. Caps really are a big deal btw, it needs to be done properly. If that means waiting for T3s/Blops to be done next year, I'm not too fussed. There's only so much the playerbase can take in terms of fixing before they turn nasty, and T3s will probably get spanked when it lands. Maybe Blops will get a huge boost as compensation.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Doddy
Excidium.
#17 - 2015-11-06 23:40:22 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
These questions seem fair. Perhaps you aren't aware of where to look to monitor future/ongoing balance topics? That might be more to do with the forum layout and working out how to follow certain topics.

Features & Ideas < for proposed changes, keep an eye on the dev stickies
EVE Information Portal < for implemented changes with a request for feedback or for larger changes being considered

Some balancing/new ship topics I found with a quick skim of F&I:
[December] Balance Smorgasbord
[December] Module Tiericide - Warp Disruption Field Generators
[December] Module Tiericide - Neutralizers and Nosferatu
[December] Discovering a New Expedition FrigateCapitals presentation
[December] Navy EWar Frigates
[December] Missile Disruptors and Tweaks to Missile Guidance Mods
[Future] Module Tiericide – Shield Rechargers and Others
[Focus Group] Tactical Destroyers
[Focus Group] Capital Ships Signup

That suggests there are massive rebalancing passes in progress - not just related to tiercide, but the release of new ships/modules to plug existing gaps and give people new things to OoOh over. I'm not hypoxic over a policy of continued balancing mixed in with fresh items. Would you prefer this was done quickly and permenantly over a year then never revisited? Actually I hope 'rebalancing' is an ongoing theme, rather than nerfing. Caps really are a big deal btw, it needs to be done properly. If that means waiting for T3s/Blops to be done next year, I'm not too fussed. There's only so much the playerbase can take in terms of fixing before they turn nasty, and T3s will probably get spanked when it lands. Maybe Blops will get a huge boost as compensation.


Also the capital stuff was announced at Eve Vegas

key note

Capital presentation


Chocolaty Sprogmaster
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#18 - 2015-11-07 05:26:30 UTC
Slow balance passes are fine, but there is a limit. We're running into the problem now where some of the first ships to be rebalanced (such as AFs) are pretty much terrible because later rebalances and other changes during that time have outdone the buffs they got. This means they're gonna hafta either be rebalalanced again before some ships even get one pass, or they'll remain garbage tier.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-11-07 13:38:54 UTC
Chocolaty Sprogmaster wrote:
Slow balance passes are fine, but there is a limit. We're running into the problem now where some of the first ships to be rebalanced (such as AFs) are pretty much terrible because later rebalances and other changes during that time have outdone the buffs they got. This means they're gonna hafta either be rebalalanced again before some ships even get one pass, or they'll remain garbage tier.

By design.

Rebalancing can be a job for life if you choose to make it so.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#20 - 2015-11-07 13:49:47 UTC
It is generally considered to be good game design to keep moving the flavour of the month around and having your players cycle through existing content.

I don't think the ships will ever be properly balanced. That said, the Tengu is puzzling.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

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