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Dev Blog: Scanning and Probing Changes in Parallax

First post
Author
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#221 - 2015-11-08 07:11:02 UTC
Calima Arzi wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
You can achieve this by going into the Markers menu in the Solar System map and deselecting "Scanner Probe". You can still manipulate the probes in the usual way, just that the individual probes won't be selectable as you describe.


My thanks to CCP Goliath and Sasha Sen for pointing this out. With that fixed, I'm back to about 75% as effective at scanning as I used to be. My main remaining problems are the same as have been called out several times:

- It's too hard to click the edge of the blue bubble to resize it.




Maybe I can help again

For resizing I had problems as well, but now we have the option to map the resizing to the keyboard, by far my favorite shortcut. I use mouse 5/6 to increase decrease the size of probes, no more issues. (the problem is there thou, confident they will work on it)


For CCP:

Since we have a shortcut for the size of probes, would it be too much to ask for a checkbox to disable the mouse to resize probes?

This would help ME personally, often I accidently resize the spheres when I am trying to move the box/group of probes.
Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt
Empusa.
#222 - 2015-11-08 08:09:44 UTC
Steijn wrote:
the green underline needs to change back to a solid green bar over the text imo.


THIS!
Leeluvv
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#223 - 2015-11-08 11:32:19 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
You can achieve this by going into the Markers menu in the Solar System map and deselecting "Scanner Probe". You can still manipulate the probes in the usual way, just that the individual probes won't be selectable as you describe.


When you do this, the option to move the probes disappears then next time you login, so you have to re-enable probes and disable them or hit the alt key to get the Cube and Arrows back. It's a probe scanner window, the one thing that should 'always' be visible is the Cube and Arrows.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2015-11-08 11:33:46 UTC
The probe control box keeps disappearing, leaving me unable to move my probes around in space. It's a glaring bug and should be fixed asap. Re-opening the scanner map nor redeploying probes helps.

As many have stated, even when everything is working as intended, the experience is clumsy at best. I am struggling with selecting and dragging my probes in position, which makes combat probing a juicy target on the fly an exercise in frustration.

Please fix.

Ghost Cultist
Perkone
Caldari State
#225 - 2015-11-08 17:42:21 UTC
Just spent 30 minutes this morning trying to figure out why the probe box/arrows were not showing up on either map. Still isn't working, my repro was basically

Log in
Equip probe launcher, load combat probes
Warp to safe, launch probes

Expected result: I'd like my probes to be on my map to use
Calima Arzi
Mass Collapse
It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
#226 - 2015-11-08 17:49:09 UTC
Ghost Cultist wrote:
Just spent 30 minutes this morning trying to figure out why the probe box/arrows were not showing up on either map. Still isn't working, my repro was basically

Log in
Equip probe launcher, load combat probes
Warp to safe, launch probes

Expected result: I'd like my probes to be on my map to use


Press 'Alt' and the cube will appear. Hopefully that's a bug that will be fixed.
Ghost Cultist
Perkone
Caldari State
#227 - 2015-11-08 18:01:56 UTC
Tried that, no good.
Justa Hunni
State War Academy
Caldari State
#228 - 2015-11-08 19:59:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Justa Hunni
CCP Goliath wrote:
Odithia wrote:
Will it be possible at some point to snap the Dscan/Camera to anomalies from the probe scan window ?

It will make looking for targets in systems with a lot of anomaly much easier. Perhaps too easy ?


We are a little concerned about the "too easy" part. Definitely one we'd prefer to sit on and monitor for a while rather than make that change now.


Edit * previous comment removed due to brain fart when posting*

One more vote for restoring the full colour rows for probe results instead of the curren coloured lines.

CCP Goliath, thank you very much for your very active participation in this discussion. This level of Dev interaction is very much appreciated.
Hazzard
Chaotic Dynamics
#229 - 2015-11-08 21:11:05 UTC
The main problem for me is it seems half the time I try to grab the box to move my probes I end up clicking on a probe and get a tooltip instead.

Is there a way to make the box always on the top of the Z order so that i can't accidentally click on a single probe? (not sure why I would ever want to currently.)

Would also love it if there was a button you had to press and hold to make the up/down arrows on the box appear. Would stop people from accidentally click the up button when dragging.
Calima Arzi
Mass Collapse
It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
#230 - 2015-11-08 21:44:45 UTC
Hazzard wrote:
stop people from accidentally click the up button when dragging.


I've been doing this a lot today. Very annoying.
Epigene
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#231 - 2015-11-08 22:55:30 UTC
Ok, so I didn't read the entire 12 pages. My 2 pet peeves are:

During probing:

a) My ship is always in the center. In very large systems, I can not adjust the probes since I can not zoom in on them and see where they are in relation to the identified sig. It may be a setting (like the "c" key) but I have not found it. Help please
b) The arrows overlap to much, grabbing them to pull them appears to effect randomly to resize, click on something below or move the single bubble out of formation. Very fiddly, very annoying
c) the color scheme needs an overhaul. The red D-scan bubble is nice but distracting, being the same color as the rest of the signatures. Can we make it white or something. The icons are too small and too faint, I need to squint to see where they are.
d) The entire "undocked" window is a neat idea, in my case it doesnt work very well. In order to see anything, I need the entire real estate of my reasonably large PC monitor.

Bottom line, I'd really like to like the new feature, I'd really like to use it but it is inferior in nearly every respect to the old system and I shall find a way to revert back.

Thank you!
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#232 - 2015-11-09 00:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Soltys
Ok, after playing a bit more over weekend with the new interface, revised list of mine - some stuff obviously overlapping with other people's remarks, and some sounding like a broken record =)


Attention2 probe result - circle: as others already mentioned it sometimes feels bugged; I did have both clearly correct results (with circle oriented properly) as well as rather suspicious circle perfectly horizontal to the EvE's plane.

Attentionfiltering on the new map is non-functional w.r.t. just signatures: for example, I cannot set a filter that would show wormholes only, as all probed signatures are always being shown no matter what.

Attentionorder of what gets priority over what: well "you can turn off this and that" sure is some sort of workaround, but turning off too many elements is an overkill - especially if DScan cone is to be of any real use. If it's possible - probe controls should have absolute priority, though that might be tough to implement properly and even then remain glitchy. So a simpler alternative - in fashion similar to checkboxes responsible for displaying stuff on the probe map - add identical list of checkboxes responsible for interacting. This way we can have some/all celestials/etc. visible - but otherwise immune to selection, unwinding, etc. This I think should please everyone and be much easier to imlpement.

Attentionbubble grabbing needs to be disableable: seriously, it gets in a way of any left-click action (rotating especially) so much; it felt excellent when it was disabled on the test server - now it's back again. So what was even the point of adding alt+cone method ? Please add a checkbox to disable it and another one to disable alt+cone dragging. This way everyone will be happy. Just a matter of 2 checkboxes after all. TBH, after I got used to alt/ctrl+mousewheel - both alternatives are just in the way =)

Attentionalt/ctrl/shift are system-wide: EvE whether in background or not, its new (old one doesn't) probe map will react dilligently to those keypresses flashing with cones, arrows and cubes (this is broken record part).

Attentionalt/ctrl/shift are EvE-wide: whether the new (or old solar beta) map has focus or not, it will react dilligently to those keypresses flashing with cones, arrows and cubes. It's hell distracting, as those modifiers are used a lot.

Attentionallow docking/'always on top' of the probe scanner with reference to the floating probe map window': this is primarily to save a bit of screen space - when the probe map is in floating mode, there is currently no way to keep probe scanner on top of it

Attentionall new maps when docked shift the ship/hud (implicitly ignoring Ship View Camera Settings); In single monitor setup it's perhaps desirable, but in dual (and higher) monitor setups it's terrible (read: unusable) - especially when the ship is set to be in the middle of left or right monitor. For example if I have the right monitor dedicated to lesser stuff (map, browser with tripwire, local, etc.) and the left to actual action - I do not want docked map to mess up where I put the ship/hud on the left monitor. The suggestion is to add checkbox in game settings under display such as "docked windows don't shrink in-space/hud area".

Attentionperhaps consider swapping clrl and alt functions: this way ctrl takes new functionality and alt retains its current many months old one; personally idc (actually, I already got used to current setup) but some people will complain about changing defaults (old alt vs. new alt)

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl

helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#233 - 2015-11-09 07:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
CCP Goliath wrote:
Leeluvv wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
5pitf1re wrote:
This has probably been reported before but the new windows don't seem to remember the last focused window choice.

That means, when I have both the DScan and scanning windows stacked into the same window and I activate or switch to the DScan window it will automatically switch to the scanning window when I jump through a gate.

This behavior is rather annoying since I have to get back to the DScan window every time.


This has actually been an issue for a really long time, but many seem to be noticing it more with these changes. I've been pressuring to get some developer traction on a fix.


I've not come across the 'bug' before, but it seems to be the default behaviour now. And I am not noticing it more, it didn't happen at all before. As a WHer, the last thing I do before I jump out of a wormhole and the first thing I do when I jump in to a wormhole is hit DScan. I have had DScan and Probing stacked for years and do not recall ever having to change back to DScan after jumping in.


Same here. I was actually astounded to find that it was a legacy issue as I also do exactly what you describe above, and have never had it occur either.


To be honest if this was a legacy issue their is no way it was being triggered before the new changes.

I scan every day and never had the loss of the focused window issue before. Its very annoying. I usually have probe and dscan windows stacked and the Dscan as my selected(focused) window. Now each time I jump a wormhole the window focus switches to the probe scan window and I have to manually click back on the dscan window again.

Dscan is critical for wormholers, so please fix this asap.

Edit.

Another bug I just noticed.

The You are Here icon gets stuck and does not update with your current postion after jumping x number of wormholes.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#234 - 2015-11-09 08:26:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Torgeir Hekard
Focus current location button gets stuck after the first time using it.
Can't switch it back, and each time I try to focus on some other thing or freemove the camera, it immediately snaps back to the current location.

Also dscan desperately needs the old "disable filters" checkbox for quick scans.
Alice Ng
No Vacancies
#235 - 2015-11-09 09:36:30 UTC
I found you could turn the old one back which is good as I find the new one incredibly slow and unusable. I've tried to give it a good go but in the end I've just switched back to the old system.

The issues I have are:

1/ Grabbing the box to move the probes. The probe itself seems to be in the center meaning you have to click the box slightly on the edge to get it. Very frustrating.
2/ Edge of the probes seem harder to grab to reduce the size.
3/ Make the bars back to solid please.
4/ Sigs no longer highlight when they are inside a probes area.
5/ Sigs seem hard to see.
6/ I spent at least 5mins trying to scan what turned out to be the DScan bubble. I suck. But very confusing.
7/ Not sure the cones are needed when moving.

It took me 15 mins to scan out 10 sigs in a worm hole I got so frustrated I was almost about to give up when a corp member told me I could switch back to the old system. Within 5 mins I'd done the other 15 sigs. Please don't take the old systme out just yet.

Calavoow2
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#236 - 2015-11-09 10:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Calavoow2
Hi, I'm in love with the new hotkeys for scanning, saves me a lot of mousing!
I also agree with all of the improvements you have posted in the opening statements (especially highlighting of sigs when probes are over them).

I live in wormhole space, and have some comments on the probe scanning UI:

  1. When the probe scanning box is close to something that I have not hidden on the map such as planets (because I want to see them), then it often happens that I drag the label of the planet / the planet itself instead of the probes.
  2. I'm unsure when, if ever, you would want to drag a planet on the map.
  3. Is it possible to make the make the new map pinnable? So that I do not drag it accidentally, as that has happened to me a few times.
  4. Is there a shortcut for opening the new map? F10 still opens the old map.
  5. When alt-tabbing, the probe box (to drag probes with) sometimes disappears until I press Shift.
  6. Is it possible to toggle certain filters without clicking on the Filtered tab in the Probe Scanner?
  7. Sometimes I would like to enable/disable anoms by just pressing '1' and not using the mouse.
  8. (Minor) Why are the probes not sorted alphabetically? And why does the ID of the probes not always start at 1?


Furthermore, for the D-Scan UI:

  1. Why is it no longer possible to toggle your active overview on the d-scan?
  2. I used this often when I wanted to get an unfiltered overview, because unfortunately my d-scan overview is about 30 overviews settings down from the 'All' preset, since I use an overview pack.
  3. (minor) Add some better feedback when the d-scan is active, it currently has a very mild animation so I tend to spam the d-scan hotkey just to be sure.
  4. Something like a button-press would be great.
  5. I am able to type '999' AU in the distance and press enter to activate the scan, without getting an error. The error only happens after clicking.
Rob Kashuken
Row Row Fight the Power
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#237 - 2015-11-09 10:27:27 UTC
Whilst most of my concerns appear from the dev posts are being looked at, I do have one question that I may have missed: In the scanning probe area, there's an icon to destroy probes immediately under the icon for the system map.

Why on earth does this exist? Surely the default would be to recover probes... does anyone ever routinely need to destroy their probes out in space?
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#238 - 2015-11-09 11:01:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Soltys
Alice Ng wrote:
2/ Edge of the probes seem harder to grab to reduce the size.


For the record, alt/ctrl+mousewheel is so much better to do this now.

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl

Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
#239 - 2015-11-09 13:32:35 UTC
The was little to no benefit in spending the time and resources required to get the probing interface from the old one to the new.

1. Change the colour of the d-scan sphere... kind of a no brainer
2. Revert back to the old highlighting of 100% signatures i.e. the whole thing is green not just a thin line under
3. When d-scan and probe windows are stacker and you change session, the window switches to whatever is first in the stack list. STOP THAT.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#240 - 2015-11-09 13:42:34 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
CCP Goliath,

While I intensely dislike the new scanning map (possibly largely because of some tooltips mumbo jumbo, or maybe just because I am an old dog who does not like learning new tricks), I have to say that I am intensely impressed with the amount of engagement with your userbase in this thread.

With that said, I'm currently attempting to play Eve on a 17-inch laptop screen. Screen real estate is at a premium. Adding a completely separate window for the scanning interface might be nice if I was playing on a 30-inch screen, but it adds no new functionality for me.

As an example of this, the new ability to better aim your d-scan tool seems great. But I literally have a 2x2 inch square of screen left available for me to move my ship to aim it. Between local, the d-scan screen, the overview, my HUD, my chat channel, etc. There just is not any space for me to use the new system effectively.

So, thank you for your efforts. I'll be that curmudgeon who will continue to use the old map and the old scanning system as long as I can.


Why don't you just fullscreen the Solar System map? That way it will pop behind the rest of your UI, much like the old solar system map, and not take up the screen real estate.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath