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Jump Fatigue Reductions were Not Enough
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#21 - 2015-11-03 22:19:55 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
But a blanket reduction to all jump fatigue is not an appropriate way to address the issue.


It absolutely is. The mechanic is just plain bad, it needs to be mitigated and marginalized, if not outright removed for a later redesign.

If it upsets you, then it must be working as intended.


And of course someone like you is in favor of punitive mechanics against people you don't like. Never realizing that such things are pretty much the primary cause of CCP's current woes. You, and everyone like you, are what will kill EVE sooner or later.

Heck, I don't even use BLOPs anymore, haven't for a while now, so it doesn't upset me at all. But besides empathizing with people whose playstyle is basically deleted, I know a bad mechanic when I see it, and jump fatigue is one of the worst they have ever come up with.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#22 - 2015-11-03 22:22:20 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You, and everyone like you, are what will kill EVE sooner or later.

Lol

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#23 - 2015-11-03 22:26:33 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You, and everyone like you, are what will kill EVE sooner or later.

Lol


I'm dead serious. This game was never more popular, nor grew faster, than when it was far more dangerous than it currently is.

Every time you get a punitive mechanic saddled on other people because you can't be asked to play the game properly, a chunk of EVE is chipped off.

Just like Ultima Online before it, the developers don't learn the lesson that some people must never have a voice in game design.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#24 - 2015-11-03 22:30:47 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Just like Ultima Online before it

I can see that you are carrying far more bitterness about Ultima Online than you should, and that it is negatively affecting your ability to see things in a logical manner. HTFU?

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#25 - 2015-11-03 22:32:19 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Just like Ultima Online before it

I can see that you are carrying far more bitterness about Ultima Online than you should, and that it is negatively affecting your ability to see things in a logical manner. HTFU?


Not really. See, unlike you people, I am capable of learning from history.

You lot literally killed the very first MMORPG. A game that EVE is a pale imitation of. Not content with that of course, you moved on to other ones. Like locusts.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#26 - 2015-11-03 22:32:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
It absolutely is. The mechanic is just plain bad, it needs to be mitigated and marginalized, if not outright removed for a later redesign.

Then come up with something better to kill power projection as it was possible before Phoebe.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#27 - 2015-11-03 22:38:26 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Just like Ultima Online before it

I can see that you are carrying far more bitterness about Ultima Online than you should, and that it is negatively affecting your ability to see things in a logical manner. HTFU?


Not really. See, unlike you people, I am capable of learning from history.

You lot literally killed the very first MMORPG. A game that EVE is a pale imitation of. Not content with that of course, you moved on to other ones. Like locusts.

There you go again, lumping people together all willy nilly.

And, just so you know, Ultima Online didn't die.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#28 - 2015-11-03 22:45:10 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
It absolutely is. The mechanic is just plain bad, it needs to be mitigated and marginalized, if not outright removed for a later redesign.

Then come up with something better to kill power projection as it was possible before Phoebe.


Power projection is nowhere near the problem it was made out to be.

To "kill" it is wholly unnecessary, most of all by saddling people with such a hugely punitive mechanic as jump fatigue.

It should be removed until they can work out a better idea. Personally, I think the upcoming nerf to carriers is a good candidate. The power was never power projection, but the fact that subcapital forces are not viable for use against caps with built in reps.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-11-03 22:45:49 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
But a blanket reduction to all jump fatigue is not an appropriate way to address the issue.


It absolutely is. The mechanic is just plain bad, it needs to be mitigated and marginalized, if not outright removed for a later redesign.



Every entity not the CFC/PL who can now use caps without fear of the entire, bored as hell super pilots from those blocs coming to crap on their day would emphatically disagree.

It gave medium sized entities room to breathe.

Clunky certainly, but extremely necessary.


The person we really should rail against is shitdragon for leading the charge on the utter gutting of fury road.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#30 - 2015-11-03 22:46:07 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:

And, just so you know, Ultima Online didn't die.


Besides the cheater carebear who tried to charge people real money for joining his corp, that's the funniest thing I've read all week.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#31 - 2015-11-03 22:49:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Cidanel Afuran
Murkar Omaristos wrote:
The target hunting benefit of not.....? Deep null is where the targets are. I'm moving from deep null to neighboring areas of deep null where enemies are. You don't seem to understand how hunting ratters works, have you ever flown black ops?

Also, the guy above you is right. Saying that you need to wait an hour to move into position for no real reason isn't an argument.

People are welcome to disagree and shoot me down based on the fact that I burned up a timer from impatience, but that's dodging the issue and not addressing the main point of this thread - which is that fatigue kills fun and builds tedium.


You don't have to end up home at the end of every op. Move somewhere and camp out in a region for a few days. Jump through a WH to another part of deep null. Have scouts and use gates when waiting for fatigue.

Fatigue doesn't kill fun. It makes you have to choose where you live more carefully.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#32 - 2015-11-03 22:50:49 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:

And, just so you know, Ultima Online didn't die.


Besides the cheater carebear who tried to charge people real money for joining his corp, that's the funniest thing I've read all week.

You must want to see a psychiatric professional.

Finding humor in the truth spoken plainly is not normal or healthy adult behavior. Lol

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#33 - 2015-11-03 23:08:14 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Blops needs help, badly.

A)Midpointing basically means you are done for the night.

B)Given the expanses of nullsec, most of the good places are at least a mid point away from any realistic place to stage. Yes you jump further than caps, but it really isn't that far. Only groups blopsing out of wormholes can really hit the edges of null without blowing their fatigue.

C)Nullsec needs risk, and part of that risk is putting the fangs back on blops. There are many places where, especially after the null WH nerfs, are effectively risk free. Risk free is bad for the game, and bad for the economy.

The easy fix is thus: if you are at 0 fatigue, you get a max of 5 minutes from a blops jump. This would go a long way towards fixing things while still having a penalty for rapid fire, as you could realstically mid and move around much better with just one 'free' jump.



I have to agree with this: I miss a good BLOP - both giving and receiving. They seem exceptionally rare now a days.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#34 - 2015-11-03 23:23:10 UTC
Murkar Omaristos wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Fatigue is fine,
Black Ops should get the Covert cloak so they can sneak around without needing to jump, but you made a screw up, you deserve your timer.


Guess I'll go play world of war ships for a week with everyone else :)


Dying duck in a thunderstorm. Right here.

Maybe you should go play something else for a week. Take a step back and get some perspective. All I'm seeing from this thread is another entitled whining baby getting upset that the mechanic introduced to limit risk-free cyno travel is indeed limiting his/her ability to strike and run away with impunity and without recourse.

Perhaps the public needs a history lesson on why jump fatigue was introduced - because while Asakai can make the headlines it does profoundly demonstrate that giving extremely powerful ships more mobility than interceptors is broken game design and was many years overdue for a nerf.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#35 - 2015-11-03 23:24:41 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:

Perhaps the public needs a history lesson on why jump fatigue was introduced - because while Asakai can make the headlines it does profoundly demonstrate that giving extremely powerful ships more mobility than interceptors is broken game design and was many years overdue for a nerf.



Go ahead and let me know how many people joined the game for jump fatigue, as opposed to how many joined for Asakai or BR-5.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Madd Adda
#36 - 2015-11-03 23:27:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Madd Adda
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Madd Adda wrote:
Quote:
the jump fatigue reductions were not enough

posting in a "working as intended" thread

Jump fatigue doesn't stop you from using gates, like the rest of us.



Even if you gate back after a drop, through extremely hostile space, which I do all the time, you still accrue fatigue faster than you can wait it off. This is a problem.

There is no other realistic way to infiltrate extremely deep and guarded null besides mid-pointing.

Both of these point to blops not being sufficiently mobile to actually do its intended role.


any further reductions in jump fatigue will only increase power projection. you need to the about the consequences for the game before your own desires.


Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Go ahead and let me know how many people joined the game for jump fatigue, as opposed to how many joined for Asakai or BR-5.


because that's all that matters, right? The only thing that matters are decisions that boost the number of people in the game, while disregarding what is actually good for the well being of EVE.

I wonder how many left post Input-broadcasting banning as opposed to joining.

Carebear extraordinaire
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#37 - 2015-11-03 23:30:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:

Perhaps the public needs a history lesson on why jump fatigue was introduced - because while Asakai can make the headlines it does profoundly demonstrate that giving extremely powerful ships more mobility than interceptors is broken game design and was many years overdue for a nerf.



Go ahead and let me know how many people joined the game for jump fatigue, as opposed to how many joined for Asakai or BR-5.

Just how many people actually did join as a result of those large battles?

Do you know? Hint: It's probably not enough to justify the broken power projection that it had before.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#38 - 2015-11-03 23:32:59 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:

Just how many people actually did join as a result of those large battles?


If I recall, CCP posted those numbers somewhere around the net. It was the biggest spike in new subs in the history of the game, at the time.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#39 - 2015-11-03 23:34:58 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:

Just how many people actually did join as a result of those large battles?


If I recall, CCP posted those numbers somewhere around the net. It was the biggest spike in new subs in the history of the game, at the time.

But did they stay?

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Madd Adda
#40 - 2015-11-03 23:36:15 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:

Just how many people actually did join as a result of those large battles?


If I recall, CCP posted those numbers somewhere around the net. It was the biggest spike in new subs in the history of the game, at the time.


That's because of the sensationalized news reporting of those battles. We all know it happens, but when people join the game, their expectations are crushed under the harshness of the learning curve.

Carebear extraordinaire