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NERF The Watchlist.......

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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#121 - 2015-11-04 18:15:37 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Shai'd Hulud wrote:
-1 for OP

I like the watchlist it's a good tool. Don't touch this. It's the same rules for all. I see you, you see me!

You talk about killboard too. Don't remove fit on it. It's a good source of useful information for ship fit.. When I purchase a new ship I often check the killboard in order to inspire me and make my own fit.



You know who you are watching - They do not know that you are watching them.

That is not the same rules for all, It's completely one sided - I see you, you don't see me because you don't even know to look for me.



they can just add you to watch list also. It not like its some obscure hidden thing in the client. People don't hush up and stop talking when you start asking about the watch list.


If you don't know who to watch list thats your problem and nothing else.



You cannot counter what you do not know
- And -
If you believe otherwise..... I used the easy to find watch-list button to watch list you with an alt account please feel free to post their name here







Perhaps you can list the counters to locators, local or to killboard trawling?


Because, lets face it, without those.....this is worthless.


There are counters built in to the 2 in-game items mentioned:

Locator agents - There is a cost (not much) , You need standings to use one & I think you need to be in the same station - Location, Experience & Cost

Local Chat - You have to be in the same system - Location & reciprocated info (both players can see the intel)

Killboards are out of game - but use the API - I would like to see a time delay
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#122 - 2015-11-04 18:37:41 UTC
I've never seen a group of video game players whine because they were popular... until super pilots. You're all like that GF I dumped in 10th grade because no matter what was given to her or what she had.... she just wouldn't stop whining.

WH space doesn't have Local AND it doesn't have a macro problem..... just saying.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2015-11-04 18:50:27 UTC
afkalt wrote:

Perhaps you can list the counters to locators, local or to killboard trawling?


Because, lets face it, without those.....this is worthless.


Locators, as already listed, take standings, isk, and time to complete (like, 5 minutes or so? I never timed it, but it's a short while). Plus they are not a streaming source of intel, they are a snapshot. Knowing where someone is 5 minutes ago is balanced enough as it is. And you should be able to tail someone in this game if you want. But you don't get to apply a beacon to their craft to get a streaming update to their location. You get a snapshot. You have to work and pay for it, and it's just a snapshot.

Local already needs to be addressed. Agreed it's a problem, but you can't use one bad system to justify another. Looking up the term in the dictionary, I believe the problem you ran into there is called a "non sequitur".

Killboards provide a snapshot, and there is a lot you can do to counter them actually. Train up different ships, switch it up. My corp alt can fly all racial frigates and cruisers, all tech 2 variants thereof. So I can tackle, EWAR, DPS, scout, logi, snipe, brawl, missiles, turrets, drones, shield, armor, etc. So I can switch roles in a fleet so my enemy never quite knows what I'll be bringing to the fight. Which makes the individual snapshots of intel from killboards mostly meaningless, because I'll likely be bringing something different anyway. That's using in-game tools and resources to counter, which makes killboards balanced. And killboards do not provide streaming intel on what I'm currently flying, or equipped with.

Watchlists are streaming intel, with only one counter that exists outside the game environment, check my prior posts to go over all that again. As such, they need to be removed from the game, along with local.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#124 - 2015-11-04 18:56:46 UTC
What if watchlists only work in systems that have observation arrays. So if your roaming through systems that have no arrays, you don't show up on watchlists. You enter an array watchlists updates...

Doesn't address the underlying issue though..

Yaay!!!!
Isler Twy'Lar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-11-04 19:12:21 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but the current mechanics for Watchlisting another player are pretty gosh darned awful.

As a mechanism for knowing when your friends come online, a watchlist is a great thing to have. However, current mechanics make it a much too powerful intel gathering tool.

Why should I be allowed to know that a person I've never met nor spoken to has logged in a character, especially when that character is cocooned inside a ridiculously expensive coffin like a Nyx or an Avatar?

I've developed the habit of watchlisting every Supercapital and Titan pilot I either encounter personally or who I've seen on zkillboard.

If I want to know that XYZ Alliance supers are logging in, I should need a spy in their alliance, not some ingame mechanism telling me exactly when to start running Locator Agents.

Thankfully the fix is simple: require the watchlist'ee to approve the watchlist'er.


This isn't OP because everyone can do it. It goes both ways.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#126 - 2015-11-04 19:18:08 UTC
Isler Twy'Lar wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but the current mechanics for Watchlisting another player are pretty gosh darned awful.

As a mechanism for knowing when your friends come online, a watchlist is a great thing to have. However, current mechanics make it a much too powerful intel gathering tool.

Why should I be allowed to know that a person I've never met nor spoken to has logged in a character, especially when that character is cocooned inside a ridiculously expensive coffin like a Nyx or an Avatar?

I've developed the habit of watchlisting every Supercapital and Titan pilot I either encounter personally or who I've seen on zkillboard.

If I want to know that XYZ Alliance supers are logging in, I should need a spy in their alliance, not some ingame mechanism telling me exactly when to start running Locator Agents.

Thankfully the fix is simple: require the watchlist'ee to approve the watchlist'er.


This isn't OP because everyone can do it. It goes both ways.


Goes both ways does it ? - I have just watch-listed you with an alt account feel free to post their name HERE
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2015-11-04 19:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Khan Wrenth wrote:
afkalt wrote:

Perhaps you can list the counters to locators, local or to killboard trawling?


Because, lets face it, without those.....this is worthless.


Locators, as already listed, take standings, isk, and time to complete (like, 5 minutes or so? I never timed it, but it's a short while). Plus they are not a streaming source of intel, they are a snapshot. Knowing where someone is 5 minutes ago is balanced enough as it is. And you should be able to tail someone in this game if you want. But you don't get to apply a beacon to their craft to get a streaming update to their location. You get a snapshot. You have to work and pay for it, and it's just a snapshot.

Local already needs to be addressed. Agreed it's a problem, but you can't use one bad system to justify another. Looking up the term in the dictionary, I believe the problem you ran into there is called a "non sequitur".

Killboards provide a snapshot, and there is a lot you can do to counter them actually. Train up different ships, switch it up. My corp alt can fly all racial frigates and cruisers, all tech 2 variants thereof. So I can tackle, EWAR, DPS, scout, logi, snipe, brawl, missiles, turrets, drones, shield, armor, etc. So I can switch roles in a fleet so my enemy never quite knows what I'll be bringing to the fight. Which makes the individual snapshots of intel from killboards mostly meaningless, because I'll likely be bringing something different anyway. That's using in-game tools and resources to counter, which makes killboards balanced. And killboards do not provide streaming intel on what I'm currently flying, or equipped with.

Watchlists are streaming intel, with only one counter that exists outside the game environment, check my prior posts to go over all that again. As such, they need to be removed from the game, along with local.



As I say, kill local and WL, I don't mind, I've spent enough time in WH that I wouldn't bat an eyelid. But do BOTH at once.

There are locator channels, by the way. You don't even need to leave home.

This is a game, there comes a point where hunting someone gets ridiculous without it. At the very least a locator then, should tell you if people are online.


But I still do not think this is a problem. The only legit problem here, is supers. Everything else is either philosophical issues (yours) or contrived made up guff (everyone elses).


So then, for interest: Let's say the watch list goes away. How do you propose that anyone ever successfully hunts a moving capital or super, ever again? I mean, I can't think of a way short of putting a pair of eyes in the systems 23/7 and having a poor bastard watch local. Like has been said, this is a game, not a space job.

So right now they're pretty integral to catching moving things, how do we keep that risk and keep it with reasonable effort levels?
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#128 - 2015-11-04 20:13:00 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:
afkalt wrote:

Perhaps you can list the counters to locators, local or to killboard trawling?


Because, lets face it, without those.....this is worthless.


Locators, as already listed, take standings, isk, and time to complete (like, 5 minutes or so? I never timed it, but it's a short while). Plus they are not a streaming source of intel, they are a snapshot. Knowing where someone is 5 minutes ago is balanced enough as it is. And you should be able to tail someone in this game if you want. But you don't get to apply a beacon to their craft to get a streaming update to their location. You get a snapshot. You have to work and pay for it, and it's just a snapshot.

Local already needs to be addressed. Agreed it's a problem, but you can't use one bad system to justify another. Looking up the term in the dictionary, I believe the problem you ran into there is called a "non sequitur".

Killboards provide a snapshot, and there is a lot you can do to counter them actually. Train up different ships, switch it up. My corp alt can fly all racial frigates and cruisers, all tech 2 variants thereof. So I can tackle, EWAR, DPS, scout, logi, snipe, brawl, missiles, turrets, drones, shield, armor, etc. So I can switch roles in a fleet so my enemy never quite knows what I'll be bringing to the fight. Which makes the individual snapshots of intel from killboards mostly meaningless, because I'll likely be bringing something different anyway. That's using in-game tools and resources to counter, which makes killboards balanced. And killboards do not provide streaming intel on what I'm currently flying, or equipped with.

Watchlists are streaming intel, with only one counter that exists outside the game environment, check my prior posts to go over all that again. As such, they need to be removed from the game, along with local.



As I say, kill local and WL, I don't mind, I've spent enough time in WH that I wouldn't bat an eyelid. But do BOTH at once.

There are locator channels, by the way. You don't even need to leave home.

This is a game, there comes a point where hunting someone gets ridiculous without it. At the very least a locator then, should tell you if people are online.


But I still do not think this is a problem. The only legit problem here, is supers. Everything else is either philosophical issues (yours) or contrived made up guff (everyone elses).


So then, for interest: Let's say the watch list goes away. How do you propose that anyone ever successfully hunts a moving capital or super, ever again? I mean, I can't think of a way short of putting a pair of eyes in the systems 23/7 and having a poor bastard watch local. Like has been said, this is a game, not a space job.

So right now they're pretty integral to catching moving things, how do we keep that risk and keep it with reasonable effort levels?



If the main problem is hunting supers then soon it will be no problem - When they can be docked at a citadel and the pilot swapped out for an unknown pilot then the WL will be useless.

Of course if your corp does not have the ISK to buy enough SP packets to turn an unknown 1-2 year old pilot into a fully skilled Super pilot then you could always join one of the mega-corps that have billions of ISK to spend on this type of thing.


In the mean time: -
Make the WL consensual only
Have Concord auto add/remove WarDec parties - Concord already police wardecs
Have locator agents charge you when a non-consensual watch-listed person logs in - Charge should be their skill points converted to ISK - You didn't think hunting super pilots would be cheap did you ?
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2015-11-04 20:14:57 UTC
afkalt wrote:
So then, for interest: Let's say the watch list goes away. How do you propose that anyone ever successfully hunts a moving capital or super, ever again? I mean, I can't think of a way short of putting a pair of eyes in the systems 23/7 and having a poor bastard watch local. Like has been said, this is a game, not a space job.

23/7 eyes would be a way to try and get the same results, but they aren't always necessary. Finding cynos and keeping tabs on travel routes will be useful, but it is unnecessary to know exactly the moment someone is logged in.

Hunting is always about catching your targets mistakes, the toughest prey makes the fewest mistakes. And of course the lower bar of complacency will make some pilots a little more risky.

Still a lot easier than pre-phoebe efforts, comparitavely.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2015-11-04 20:25:58 UTC
Rowells wrote:
afkalt wrote:
So then, for interest: Let's say the watch list goes away. How do you propose that anyone ever successfully hunts a moving capital or super, ever again? I mean, I can't think of a way short of putting a pair of eyes in the systems 23/7 and having a poor bastard watch local. Like has been said, this is a game, not a space job.

23/7 eyes would be a way to try and get the same results, but they aren't always necessary. Finding cynos and keeping tabs on travel routes will be useful, but it is unnecessary to know exactly the moment someone is logged in.

Hunting is always about catching your targets mistakes, the toughest prey makes the fewest mistakes. And of course the lower bar of complacency will make some pilots a little more risky.

Still a lot easier than pre-phoebe efforts, comparitavely.



So 23/7 human eyes to watch a system (or series of) is "reasonable", but not logging out (and by extension, likely sleeping) to counter it's worth is "unreasonable"? That seems a little off balance.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#131 - 2015-11-04 20:38:55 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Isler Twy'Lar wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but the current mechanics for Watchlisting another player are pretty gosh darned awful.

As a mechanism for knowing when your friends come online, a watchlist is a great thing to have. However, current mechanics make it a much too powerful intel gathering tool.

Why should I be allowed to know that a person I've never met nor spoken to has logged in a character, especially when that character is cocooned inside a ridiculously expensive coffin like a Nyx or an Avatar?

I've developed the habit of watchlisting every Supercapital and Titan pilot I either encounter personally or who I've seen on zkillboard.

If I want to know that XYZ Alliance supers are logging in, I should need a spy in their alliance, not some ingame mechanism telling me exactly when to start running Locator Agents.

Thankfully the fix is simple: require the watchlist'ee to approve the watchlist'er.


This isn't OP because everyone can do it. It goes both ways.


Goes both ways does it ? - I have just watch-listed you with an alt account feel free to post their name HERE



This isn't OP because everyone can do it. It goes both ways.


you might want to learn what the above means as it does go both ways. you can watch list i can watch list everyone can watch list it isnt some super hard club to get into.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#132 - 2015-11-04 20:43:03 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:
afkalt wrote:

Perhaps you can list the counters to locators, local or to killboard trawling?


Because, lets face it, without those.....this is worthless.


Locators, as already listed, take standings, isk, and time to complete (like, 5 minutes or so? I never timed it, but it's a short while). Plus they are not a streaming source of intel, they are a snapshot. Knowing where someone is 5 minutes ago is balanced enough as it is. And you should be able to tail someone in this game if you want. But you don't get to apply a beacon to their craft to get a streaming update to their location. You get a snapshot. You have to work and pay for it, and it's just a snapshot.

Local already needs to be addressed. Agreed it's a problem, but you can't use one bad system to justify another. Looking up the term in the dictionary, I believe the problem you ran into there is called a "non sequitur".

Killboards provide a snapshot, and there is a lot you can do to counter them actually. Train up different ships, switch it up. My corp alt can fly all racial frigates and cruisers, all tech 2 variants thereof. So I can tackle, EWAR, DPS, scout, logi, snipe, brawl, missiles, turrets, drones, shield, armor, etc. So I can switch roles in a fleet so my enemy never quite knows what I'll be bringing to the fight. Which makes the individual snapshots of intel from killboards mostly meaningless, because I'll likely be bringing something different anyway. That's using in-game tools and resources to counter, which makes killboards balanced. And killboards do not provide streaming intel on what I'm currently flying, or equipped with.

Watchlists are streaming intel, with only one counter that exists outside the game environment, check my prior posts to go over all that again. As such, they need to be removed from the game, along with local.



As I say, kill local and WL, I don't mind, I've spent enough time in WH that I wouldn't bat an eyelid. But do BOTH at once.

There are locator channels, by the way. You don't even need to leave home.

This is a game, there comes a point where hunting someone gets ridiculous without it. At the very least a locator then, should tell you if people are online.


But I still do not think this is a problem. The only legit problem here, is supers. Everything else is either philosophical issues (yours) or contrived made up guff (everyone elses).


So then, for interest: Let's say the watch list goes away. How do you propose that anyone ever successfully hunts a moving capital or super, ever again? I mean, I can't think of a way short of putting a pair of eyes in the systems 23/7 and having a poor bastard watch local. Like has been said, this is a game, not a space job.

So right now they're pretty integral to catching moving things, how do we keep that risk and keep it with reasonable effort levels?



If the main problem is hunting supers then soon it will be no problem - When they can be docked at a citadel and the pilot swapped out for an unknown pilot then the WL will be useless.

Of course if your corp does not have the ISK to buy enough SP packets to turn an unknown 1-2 year old pilot into a fully skilled Super pilot then you could always join one of the mega-corps that have billions of ISK to spend on this type of thing.


In the mean time: -
Make the WL consensual only
Have Concord auto add/remove WarDec parties - Concord already police wardecs
Have locator agents charge you when a non-consensual watch-listed person logs in - Charge should be their skill points converted to ISK - You didn't think hunting super pilots would be cheap did you ?


'
watch list is more than just super hunting.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#133 - 2015-11-04 20:47:01 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Isler Twy'Lar wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but the current mechanics for Watchlisting another player are pretty gosh darned awful.

As a mechanism for knowing when your friends come online, a watchlist is a great thing to have. However, current mechanics make it a much too powerful intel gathering tool.

Why should I be allowed to know that a person I've never met nor spoken to has logged in a character, especially when that character is cocooned inside a ridiculously expensive coffin like a Nyx or an Avatar?

I've developed the habit of watchlisting every Supercapital and Titan pilot I either encounter personally or who I've seen on zkillboard.

If I want to know that XYZ Alliance supers are logging in, I should need a spy in their alliance, not some ingame mechanism telling me exactly when to start running Locator Agents.

Thankfully the fix is simple: require the watchlist'ee to approve the watchlist'er.


This isn't OP because everyone can do it. It goes both ways.


Goes both ways does it ? - I have just watch-listed you with an alt account feel free to post their name HERE



This isn't OP because everyone can do it. It goes both ways.


you might want to learn what the above means as it does go both ways. you can watch list i can watch list everyone can watch list it isnt some super hard club to get into.


I can watchlist, you can watchlist we all can watchlist -

Now, as for this going both ways rubbish - did you get the NAME of the toon I used to watchlist you with - please let me know when you join the club by adding them to your watchlist.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#134 - 2015-11-04 20:50:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Rift
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Isler Twy'Lar wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but the current mechanics for Watchlisting another player are pretty gosh darned awful.

As a mechanism for knowing when your friends come online, a watchlist is a great thing to have. However, current mechanics make it a much too powerful intel gathering tool.

Why should I be allowed to know that a person I've never met nor spoken to has logged in a character, especially when that character is cocooned inside a ridiculously expensive coffin like a Nyx or an Avatar?

I've developed the habit of watchlisting every Supercapital and Titan pilot I either encounter personally or who I've seen on zkillboard.

If I want to know that XYZ Alliance supers are logging in, I should need a spy in their alliance, not some ingame mechanism telling me exactly when to start running Locator Agents.

Thankfully the fix is simple: require the watchlist'ee to approve the watchlist'er.


This isn't OP because everyone can do it. It goes both ways.


Goes both ways does it ? - I have just watch-listed you with an alt account feel free to post their name HERE



This isn't OP because everyone can do it. It goes both ways.

you might want to learn what the above means as it does go both ways. you can watch list i can watch list everyone can watch list it isnt some super hard club to get into.


I can watchlist, you can watchlist we all can watchlist -

Now, as for this going both ways rubbish - did you get the NAME of the toon I used to watchlist you with - please let me know when you join the club by adding them to your watchlist.




i dont care what toon you used to watch list me. it doesn't matter. i just went and wl'ed about 35 toons cause of a war. so im in the club thanks


see it goes both ways means everyone can watch list.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#135 - 2015-11-05 14:38:48 UTC
Consensual only watch list now. Consensual only pvp next.


The premise of this entire thread is baseless whining. It's redundant to other threads. It's not a feature or an idea (it's a cry for a handout).

Please lock
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2015-11-05 16:42:10 UTC
afkalt wrote:

As I say, kill local and WL, I don't mind, I've spent enough time in WH that I wouldn't bat an eyelid. But do BOTH at once.

There are locator channels, by the way. You don't even need to leave home.

This is a game, there comes a point where hunting someone gets ridiculous without it. At the very least a locator then, should tell you if people are online.


But I still do not think this is a problem. The only legit problem here, is supers. Everything else is either philosophical issues (yours) or contrived made up guff (everyone elses).


So then, for interest: Let's say the watch list goes away. How do you propose that anyone ever successfully hunts a moving capital or super, ever again? I mean, I can't think of a way short of putting a pair of eyes in the systems 23/7 and having a poor bastard watch local. Like has been said, this is a game, not a space job.

So right now they're pretty integral to catching moving things, how do we keep that risk and keep it with reasonable effort levels?


Respectfully, I do say you raise a good point. But, in the interest of conversation, I am forced to pose a question aimed at the base of your argument.

Are we, the players, entitled to have hunting supers as an occupation?

There are many jobs within EvE. Some are directly supported by game mechanics (mining, manufacturing). Some are player created (Redfrog). Some have been promised by the game and never truly delivered (bounty hunter). But beyond mechanics and promises, beyond emergent gameplay, do we deserve hunting supers as a supported occupation? I don't doubt the content creation, the fun, the excitement, or the hard work put into. Far from it; I highly respect those who do it, and as a regular viewer of zKill, I highly anticipate the next big kill to be posted. I love seeing them, reading the (often-condescending) commentary and banter that accompanies it.

But super hunting needn't be the only time these vessels are at risk. Opportune to take them out while they are in transit, absolutely. But these vessels, unlike say freighters, see combat. They can be taken down in a battle as any other. So, my question again, is are we entitled to super hunting as an occupation supported by the Devs, a status that should come with the protections to that occupation, or is it simply something we've found to do, and would rather not lose it?

I'd rather see the big kills on zkill. I always have popcorn ready. But I would like to hear a good debate about this playstyle needing protection from a change that I believe would serve EvE better overall. In the end it is about the overall health of the game above any single playstyle or occupation. I just saw in the dev notes that hyperdunking recently took a hit, despite the rarity and difficulty of the move. If that thing, of all things, is up on the chopping block, why not others?

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2015-11-05 16:50:38 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
It's an interesting question. I'd contend that these are only really vulnerable in transit. A good super scrap is rare enough to make mainstream media.

I'm not sure we need more safety, tbh.


Perhaps more vulnerability could be introduced.....but that is like turkeys voting for thanksgiving.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2015-11-05 17:30:37 UTC
afkalt wrote:
It's an interesting question. I'd contend that these are only really vulnerable in transit. A good super scrap is rare enough to make mainstream media.

I'm not sure we need more safety, tbh.


Perhaps more vulnerability could be introduced.....but that is like turkeys voting for thanksgiving.


Good analogy! So considering the dev blogs and incoming capital changes, what else might you change in the game to make up for the lack of watchlists if the OP's proposal came through? I'm just curious for a good brainstorming now.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#139 - 2015-11-05 17:47:19 UTC
I think deep down CCP is working to bring supers back into balance. I don't see a forum plea to nix the watchlist for the sake of safe mass super logins is going to get a lot of traction. The incoming changes are taking what I am anticipating as large steps towards supers popping in staggering numbers. The 'tar baby' effect will pull down many more supers than watch list intel ever will. They'll either be tackled and left to die a solo death or help will come and glorious explosions will happen.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2015-11-05 17:55:18 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Rowells wrote:
afkalt wrote:
So then, for interest: Let's say the watch list goes away. How do you propose that anyone ever successfully hunts a moving capital or super, ever again? I mean, I can't think of a way short of putting a pair of eyes in the systems 23/7 and having a poor bastard watch local. Like has been said, this is a game, not a space job.

23/7 eyes would be a way to try and get the same results, but they aren't always necessary. Finding cynos and keeping tabs on travel routes will be useful, but it is unnecessary to know exactly the moment someone is logged in.

Hunting is always about catching your targets mistakes, the toughest prey makes the fewest mistakes. And of course the lower bar of complacency will make some pilots a little more risky.

Still a lot easier than pre-phoebe efforts, comparitavely.



So 23/7 human eyes to watch a system (or series of) is "reasonable", but not logging out (and by extension, likely sleeping) to counter it's worth is "unreasonable"? That seems a little off balance.

I did say it was reasonable, I said it wasn't necessary.