Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Are you honestly advocating an 'always logged in, 23/7 vulnerable EVE'?

Start your own thread for that one.

No, and I never said that.

What I said was, that power needs a manner of a counter.

I got the option to not display my kills on zkill, so I go without API verification. Watchlist is nothing I can control in whichever direction, my complaints would dissipate immediately if there was a *do not broadcast online status* toggle.

You only know that because of local announcing his presence, and watchlists telling you when to keep your guard up

Everything I've quoted you as saying, 100% accurate and factual. Killboards provide immense amounts of data. Everything you've said, and more. Don't forget locations and times. That's incredibly important too.

The difference is that you still have not gotten around the core problem. This information is only relevant or useful if you know who your target is and when he's coming. That still makes the problem local and watchlists, not killboards. Without those two elements, there is no problem. In fact, I'll reiterate that killboards are a net benefit to the game. In the same way that Valve corp introduced "strange" weapons into Team Fortress 2, because people like to show off their numbers. Killboards provide incentive just as much as they provide intel. The intel problem is overcome by removing local and watchlists. I want killboards to stay, because they reward due diligence and research too.



And here's where we hit a brick wall. That ties in directly with this being a video game. The only thing you can't log out of, is life. Games should always have that option. There's no way around that. But there is no in-game counterplay needed for that, because by it's nature, there's nothing to counter. If the other guy isn't logged in, all the anomalies are yours, he's not there to interdict your supply of moon goo, there's nothing. To say that logging off is a problem is the same as saying every person in the world not playing this game, all 7 billion (and counting!) of them, are somehow a problem. A person not playing the game can't effect you, and his existence is only relevant within the confines of this game, so any mention of logging off as any sort of issueis immediately an invalid statement and completely irrelevant to the discussion.

The local thing is more powerful than than the watchlist. On a day to day basis it allows far more folks all over eve avoid conflict. Red in local.... get to station. Wait out the red. Knowing a guy just logged in gives you an inference of things that may occur in the next what... 20 minutes to an hour. Seeing a guy or spike in local gives you immediate free intel. You don't have to police your space, you just have to watch local and dock.

But this aids the risk averse, so the OP doesn't see it as a problem. He's looking for a safer more risk averse eve. Local allows more folks (macro's included) to avoid pvp all day every day. At least the warch list is situational and requires more effort than scrolling local chat.

hypocracy

Fixed that.

I have no problems with that suggestion. If you can find a way to change that, I'm all for it. No argument here. As it stands, I'm not opposed to modules being shown, but I'm not attached to it either. If this change happens, okay, cool. They still show, however, the pilot, the ships he flies, where he flies, when he flies. And the attackers are still revealed for all that, plus any allies they had also shooting. Modules are a good bit of information, but honestly, they're almost equal in value to the rest of the picture that a killboard provides.



Logon traps are interesting...I don't think it breaks any technical rules to talk about what my corpmates talked about 3 years ago?

3 years ago, during corp discussions, logon traps were brought up. CEO immediately shut down the discussion saying that logon traps were a bannable offense. That's a player's word, not a DEV, so I don't know the accuracy, but my impression is that they shouldn't be happening. Perhaps I'm wrong on that though - if it happens often enough that it is a concern to you, then maybe it's allowable gameplay?

But I get the impression we might be talking about different things. Maybe not? Before I speak further on that subject, could you describe what you mean by a "logon trap"? Because my corpmates called it a "logoffski" way back when, so I might be thinking of something else.

Moving on, I feel the D-scan immunity on recons is a bad thing. I fly a recon myself and I don't want that. I feel cloaks are the counter to d-scan, but it should be less binary and more fluid than that, hence why I wrote upon it (see sig for details, and yes this is a subject I'm passionate about). I don't know what your stance is on that d-scan immunity (yay or nay) but I understand your frustration and limited tools. But I'd rather update tools at our disposal, and introduce new tools, than simply keep a tool that is better off being retired at this point in time.

The only problem with the watchlist is not a problem with the watchlist: automated monitoring of it and sending out of game pings. The log server is intended as a debugging tool, using it this way is entirely equivalent to monitoring memory or sniffing packets and should not be tolerated.

you use to be able to just log off while in a fight and if you didn't die within the time it took your ship to de-spawn from space you could save your ship. This no longer works.


log off traps are when you log off at a specific point in space and when a bait ship gets tackle or gets engaged on everyone longs on so you have a whole fleet there that no one would of known about.

Hunting someone is not griefing, it is legitimate EVE gameplay and the game would be diminished without it. A lot of people would be effectively impossible to hunt without watch lists and locator agents, I have marks who log on for maybe an hour or two per month (yes, per month) and marks who take off to a random part of the galaxy (only 5201 k-space systems to search!) as soon as they log on. Often hunting doesn't even start with an encounter in space, it starts with a name, for instance from a wallet journal or a contract. EVE would be greatly diminished without the ability to find, stalk and kill someone whether it be because he flies a super, a "highsec super", transports no less than 5 billion on every trip (hello X-FEANOR!) or simply because you don't like him. I do my hunting without abusing the log server as in the link above by the way, I need to personally notice that a mark is online or be informed by someone else who noticed.

Actually it's funny that you say get rid of locators and watch lists but keep local, the former two almost exclusively are content drivers while the latter reduces content by promoting risk averse gameplay.

If you think any incident is legitimate griefing as defined by CCP (which is a more narrow definition than you might believe), that's what support is for.