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Discussion - Rorqual

Author
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation
#21 - 2015-11-09 19:06:51 UTC
I think rorqual should have no offensive capabilities at all. The risk is that if you give it enough boost, it becomes an option for a real offensive ship, and steps on other ships' roles.

So, in deployed mode, is should act like a citadel (or whatever structure it would most resemble):

Damage mitigation up to a point

Tether mining ships in range - (i like that idea, thanks other posters) which means the tethered ships are "immune" (at least I think thats how it works)b ***tether ONLY mining ships - barges, exhumers and the other special ORE frigs)

When tethered mining ships get boosts, so no off-grid boosts, but then they lose some amount of mobility

Ore compression and storage etc

Probably shouldn't have a ship maintenance hangar (to avoid it being a "bait" ship)

Time for lunch, my brain just turned off

Cedric

Market Wizard
Doomheim
#22 - 2015-11-10 02:10:25 UTC
Amarisen Greams wrote:

Let's say after the capital ship change the Rorqual has these defense stats added
25% resist to ewar
+10 warp core strength.

The industrial cores focus would become more combat/defensive vs its current form.
Durning the 1-2 minute cycle the Rorqual is unable to move
And additional warp core strength of say 20.

(Those numbers are at max industrial core skill)


I just wanted to jump in here and point out how "pointless" (For lack of a word that didn't insult intelligence) this sounded.

First, I could possibly get behind some warp core strength for a capital since it seems like CCP will do it for all capitals anyways. I feel like 10 is the most that should ever be considered for the Rorqual.

Secondly, and most importantly, IF the Rorqual is unable to move during use of the industrial core, why would you give it any bonuses that require movement? Also, an additional 20 would bring it to 30 which is in the middle of what CCP is considering for Titans (25-50) which is too high for a sub-super, much less an industrial capital.
oohthey ioh
Doomheim
#23 - 2015-11-17 19:38:07 UTC  |  Edited by: oohthey ioh
The industry core makes An bubble, it behave like the pos bubble, and it becomes an mini safe spot in the belt. Just to relay the miners getting killed befor back up comes. Needs fual so it cant sit there for ever, and people cant warp form the bubble it self.

Super high sig to make it easy to scan, only fleet members can enter, the fleet boost only on gird, so people dont use it as an deep space spot.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#24 - 2015-11-18 06:53:57 UTC
Market Wizard wrote:
Amarisen Greams wrote:

Let's say after the capital ship change the Rorqual has these defense stats added
25% resist to ewar
+10 warp core strength.

The industrial cores focus would become more combat/defensive vs its current form.
Durning the 1-2 minute cycle the Rorqual is unable to move
And additional warp core strength of say 20.

(Those numbers are at max industrial core skill)


I just wanted to jump in here and point out how "pointless" (For lack of a word that didn't insult intelligence) this sounded.

First, I could possibly get behind some warp core strength for a capital since it seems like CCP will do it for all capitals anyways. I feel like 10 is the most that should ever be considered for the Rorqual.

Secondly, and most importantly, IF the Rorqual is unable to move during use of the industrial core, why would you give it any bonuses that require movement? Also, an additional 20 would bring it to 30 which is in the middle of what CCP is considering for Titans (25-50) which is too high for a sub-super, much less an industrial capital.


I don't wanna insult you, but you totally didn't quote the part where there is a residue charge left from turning the industrial core off.
So there is a point to having an increase in warp core strength, you just totally didn't read it.

Let's once again look at real world aspect - you take your car for a drive, engine builds up heat due to friction - when you turn your car off, you still have heat coming off the engine for like the next half hour.
When you turn your lights off, you might not realize it but there are milli-seconds that the light stays on even after the power turns off - due to the power still in the line.

How does your spaceship work - when you tell it to stop, it doesn't go from 100m/s or 6.5k m/s to 0 right off the bat.
Like all other "siege" modules, the lore says they the reason the ship cannot move is because the power is pulled from the engines. So in theory, once that "siege" module turns off, there would be a massive flood of raw power returned to those same warp drives, and that my boy is why the Rorqual would have a nice bump into warp strength, but only for a few seconds (5-15) at the end of the Industrial core cycle.

So, please, before you half-*** a quote again, read the full post.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#25 - 2015-11-18 06:56:37 UTC
oohthey ioh wrote:
The industry core makes An bubble, it behave like the pos bubble, and it becomes an mini safe spot in the belt. Just to relay the miners getting killed befor back up comes. Needs fual so it cant sit there for ever, and people cant warp form the bubble it self.

Super high sig to make it easy to scan, only fleet members can enter, the fleet boost only on gird, so people dont use it as an deep space spot.


The one primary reason I am against a shield bubble - it limits game play. And from the looks of what CCP is doing they don't want limit combat with these "safe spots"
Yeah, new structure tethering gives a player some safety, but it doesn't lock the player into a safe bubble trap. They could willing remove the safety by taking a combat action.

So -1 to any safety bubble.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

Pantaira
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2015-11-28 09:21:22 UTC
I feel that many have lost sight with respects to the rorqual (including CCP) and it's intended purpose.

I agree with -1 to safety bubble, but more so to what i've recently heard on the rumor mill -1 to any invulnerability toggle a rorq may employ with fighter squads. It has become clear to players that CCP is not interested in providing POS safety long term, nor is CCP interested in providing or continuing off-grid boosts, which literally what the rorqual does as it's primary function with the industrial core.

If you take away the industrial core which effectively anchors the rorq for a few minutes at a time, you take away the boost advantage of the rorq over an orca. You'd be better off running a t1 battleship with command module additions to provide boosts. That is effectively what it's heading towards.

I geniunely feel that CCP has lost touch with miners and how a decent mining fleet functions in Null Sec. I do not know of any mining fleet that sticks around to fight neuts. Infact it's completely the oppositie, even if it's a single frigate, miners are vigilant in most aspects and safe up to a pos or station immediately upon a neut entering system. (and lets face it, it gives miners an opportunity to then grab a drink out of the fridge), or log onto a pvp char to chase the neut. if you stick around and fight with your hulk, you're handing free lootz to neuts.

The uncertainty of the additions of citadels and the tether system has raised many issues as to the shielding of space around a citadel and if this could possibly suffice for protecting the rorqal. We all know that POS's are due to be removed at some point, which will ultimately change how we protect a rorq anyways, but breaking something that isn't broken and actually functions for providing boosts for mining is floored thought and poor forsight.

As we don't have any real news on mining structures and how they will replace a POS which is used for mining, how about instead of trying to revamp a perfectly good capital ship (that ironically can only put industrial ships in it's fleet hanger, whereas the lower command ship the orca, can put anything into it....), tie the rorq's purpose into a genuine mining structure. Make use of the industrial core (and for the love of god, give us a t2 variant), make compression only available at the mining platform available with a tethered rorq. If a mining platform has invulnerability shielding, let that encompass the rorq as well. It would however mean CCP that you have to continue off-grid boosts....

In short, putting a capital asset into a field is a large risk. it doesn't matter how you put lipstick on that pig, it's still a pig. So if you want to invite the blops, invite the risk, you invite lower ore yield which in turn will mean you start to impact on other areas of the game. This is very sad when CCP has effectively broken capitals for a long time, and just recently opened up possibilities for new cap fleets to actually be useful (bar limited 6k dps...). however if you want to affect the very pillars and foundation of this game which are ore gathering, you will seriously impact the game overall.

CCP - please considering the rorqual seriously and how on-grid boosts are really not the answer for this capital ship with an invulnerability periods that "protects" the mining fleet. Seriously have a look at how gameplay occurs and cater towards how people play. Do not try to curb people's play styles, let them find ways to develop playstyles. There is a reason we do not put capital ships on grid for extended periods of time that are solely for one purpose, and that is to boost an already vulnerable mining fleet.

I'll be conveying my sentiments to the CCP crew in Brisbane after Eve Down Under. I hope in the meantime, CCP you read and understand that the proposed changes for the rorq on the rumor mill are unsuitable.

o7 Pantaira

Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#27 - 2015-11-28 09:43:26 UTC
Pantaira wrote:
I feel that many have lost sight with respects to the rorqual (including CCP) and it's intended purpose.

I agree with -1 to safety bubble, but more so to what i've recently heard on the rumor mill -1 to any invulnerability toggle a rorq may employ with fighter squads. It has become clear to players that CCP is not interested in providing POS safety long term, nor is CCP interested in providing or continuing off-grid boosts, which literally what the rorqual does as it's primary function with the industrial core.

If you take away the industrial core which effectively anchors the rorq for a few minutes at a time, you take away the boost advantage of the rorq over an orca. You'd be better off running a t1 battleship with command module additions to provide boosts. That is effectively what it's heading towards.

I geniunely feel that CCP has lost touch with miners and how a decent mining fleet functions in Null Sec. I do not know of any mining fleet that sticks around to fight neuts. Infact it's completely the oppositie, even if it's a single frigate, miners are vigilant in most aspects and safe up to a pos or station immediately upon a neut entering system. (and lets face it, it gives miners an opportunity to then grab a drink out of the fridge), or log onto a pvp char to chase the neut. if you stick around and fight with your hulk, you're handing free lootz to neuts.

The uncertainty of the additions of citadels and the tether system has raised many issues as to the shielding of space around a citadel and if this could possibly suffice for protecting the rorqal. We all know that POS's are due to be removed at some point, which will ultimately change how we protect a rorq anyways, but breaking something that isn't broken and actually functions for providing boosts for mining is floored thought and poor forsight.

As we don't have any real news on mining structures and how they will replace a POS which is used for mining, how about instead of trying to revamp a perfectly good capital ship (that ironically can only put industrial ships in it's fleet hanger, whereas the lower command ship the orca, can put anything into it....), tie the rorq's purpose into a genuine mining structure. Make use of the industrial core (and for the love of god, give us a t2 variant), make compression only available at the mining platform available with a tethered rorq. If a mining platform has invulnerability shielding, let that encompass the rorq as well. It would however mean CCP that you have to continue off-grid boosts....

In short, putting a capital asset into a field is a large risk. it doesn't matter how you put lipstick on that pig, it's still a pig. So if you want to invite the blops, invite the risk, you invite lower ore yield which in turn will mean you start to impact on other areas of the game. This is very sad when CCP has effectively broken capitals for a long time, and just recently opened up possibilities for new cap fleets to actually be useful (bar limited 6k dps...). however if you want to affect the very pillars and foundation of this game which are ore gathering, you will seriously impact the game overall.

CCP - please considering the rorqual seriously and how on-grid boosts are really not the answer for this capital ship with an invulnerability periods that "protects" the mining fleet. Seriously have a look at how gameplay occurs and cater towards how people play. Do not try to curb people's play styles, let them find ways to develop playstyles. There is a reason we do not put capital ships on grid for extended periods of time that are solely for one purpose, and that is to boost an already vulnerable mining fleet.

I'll be conveying my sentiments to the CCP crew in Brisbane after Eve Down Under. I hope in the meantime, CCP you read and understand that the proposed changes for the rorq on the rumor mill are unsuitable.

o7 Pantaira



Very good read.
- I also don't support a 100% protection bubble/field. Which is why in my OP I purposes a system that limits damage ewar to these fleets. And if the rorqual gains an open SMA - miners can reship to combat ships on grid.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

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