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[New Structures] Condensed thread

First post First post
Author
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#341 - 2016-08-23 02:57:50 UTC
Resa Moon wrote:
So much for the nomadic nature of Eve for miners/industrialists. With the POS mechanics we could move in a heartbeat compared to 24 hours to anchor and a week to unanchor. Put a small POS, compression array and corp hangar array in the Orca and hit the road.

Have something that retains our ability to remain reasonably nomadic.

See what they do with the Rorq. If it keeps compression but no longer needs the industrial core to use it, there you go.
Resa Moon
New Eden Miners Association
Interplay
#342 - 2016-08-23 03:01:26 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Resa Moon wrote:
So much for the nomadic nature of Eve for miners/industrialists. With the POS mechanics we could move in a heartbeat compared to 24 hours to anchor and a week to unanchor. Put a small POS, compression array and corp hangar array in the Orca and hit the road.

Have something that retains our ability to remain reasonably nomadic.

See what they do with the Rorq. If it keeps compression but no longer needs the industrial core to use it, there you go.


Not in highsec.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#343 - 2016-08-23 05:40:28 UTC
Resa Moon wrote:

Not in highsec.

Highsec has these things called stations, often several in each system for you to be Nomadic in. I hear they even almost all have 50% refining in them. Oh, not to mention all those freeport Citadels springing up around the place.

You are complaining that you can't be nomadic inside a highly developed city here, get over it.
Resa Moon
New Eden Miners Association
Interplay
#344 - 2016-08-23 08:19:22 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Resa Moon wrote:

Not in highsec.

Highsec has these things called stations, often several in each system for you to be Nomadic in. I hear they even almost all have 50% refining in them. Oh, not to mention all those freeport Citadels springing up around the place.

You are complaining that you can't be nomadic inside a highly developed city here, get over it.


What nonsense. With a small POS you can do with ore what you want, such as compress, refine, or even build, where you want.

Highsec stations don't compress, by the way.

Also, not every system has a station.
Kenneth Fritz
DND Industries
#345 - 2016-09-13 04:32:56 UTC
With many people being up in arms over the upcoming changes to command links and the leadership skills I am wondering if an equally important matter is being overlooked. I have, so far, been unable to locate any official information about either the Engineering Complex nor the Mining Platform. Other than the names and that the former is coming out in November and latter in Winter I can't find any hard information on them.

Perhaps I am simply not looking in the right places. If so I hope someone can point me in the right direction.

However, if the case is that information is available, I ask that CCP release what they can so that the potentially game changing mechanics that these structures might represent don't blindside the players.

And who knows some of us might catch something that was missed or provide insight on a mechanic you're having trouble implementing.

Who's your end of the world buddy?

Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#346 - 2016-09-13 17:00:34 UTC
Kenneth Fritz wrote:
..................

Perhaps I am simply not looking in the right places. If so I hope someone can point me in the right direction. .............


No, you haven't missed anything - the most 'exciting' thing recently has been the change from 'Industrial Array' to 'Engineering Complex'.

We don't even know whether there'll be 3 (M, L, XL) or just one - with rather weak defences.......

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium

TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#347 - 2016-09-13 17:39:26 UTC
Marcus Tedric wrote:
Kenneth Fritz wrote:
..................

Perhaps I am simply not looking in the right places. If so I hope someone can point me in the right direction. .............


No, you haven't missed anything - the most 'exciting' thing recently has been the change from 'Industrial Array' to 'Engineering Complex'.

We don't even know whether there'll be 3 (M, L, XL) or just one - with rather weak defences.......


Is this no longer accurate? >

http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/67008/1/Structure_ISIS5-01.png

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#348 - 2016-09-15 18:33:57 UTC


I honestly don't know - but must admit that's the first time I really looked at the detail in that picture.

That the L & XL can be 'entozzled' - many, many unhappy people cried out in the night......

Was really hoping that entozzling was going to be confined to TCUs only within the year.......Roll

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium

Lugh Crow-Slave
#349 - 2016-09-15 22:05:35 UTC
that link is so old...

the assembly structures will be the same as a citadel just with different role bonuses and iirc no asset safety

basically citadel are vaults industry platforms are manufacturing plants
sstabeler Echerie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#350 - 2016-09-18 12:38:52 UTC
I think the idea is that the Hub and Headquarters are supposed to be strategic assets- that is, you aren't supposed to leave them unguarded, or someone will take them from you. The idea, I suspect is that Structures are supposed to represent the equivalent of having de jure authority over a system ( Sov) but not necessarily having de facto authority ( if your enemies have taken over your Structures, you might own the system, but it doesn't mean a great deal)- in some ways, the idea is that instead of needing to take the whole system at once, you can take it over slowly- use Citadels to defend your part of the system, gradually either capturing enemy Citadels, or deploying more citadels to bring more of the system under your control- making it a much more realistic simulation of what interstellar warfare would actually be like- the idea would be to gradually force one side or the other to retreat from the system moon-by-moon, planet-by-planet, belt-by-belt, taking over- or destroying- Structures to gradually make it harder and harder for the defenders- or attackers- to defend themselves.

In other words, Structures are designed to make for a whole new strategic balance in warfare- rather that the " take over the whole system at once" of current tactics, it would be possible for wars to be fought on- potentially- a much smaller scale, taking over smaller bits of territory at once. ( for that matter, it could also allow for insurgency-type operations- a sufficiently-defended Citadel far behind enemy lines could become a pain in the ass- at a minimum, it would mean the enemy had to divert attention to deal with the problem, making it easier to defend the frontline.
erg cz
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#351 - 2016-09-26 10:32:33 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:


the assembly structures ... iirc no asset safety



That would be very unfortunate. BPO with weeks of ME or TE research may be very , very valuable...
Auron Orlenard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#352 - 2016-10-10 17:14:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Auron Orlenard
One concern, the last picture on the devpost shows a titan being assembled. Will the ships being constructed be visible from outside the citadel? Will we know if a titan/super be on the cooker just by warping to the citadel?


PS Still waiting for citadel firework Launcher.
Fred Undead
Respice Ad Astra
#353 - 2016-10-10 17:59:01 UTC
One question re: Engineering Complexes - Will the Rorqual be made as an exception to the "Capital ships can only dock in XL Complexes" rule?

As it stands right now, if I live in a C3 or C4 Wormhole that rarely or never gets a reasonably safe, capital sized hole, and I want my corporation to have access to a Rorqual in our system, I will need both a Fortizar and an Azbel. I will need the Azbel both to build the Rorqual and support enough manufacturing to keep up with a new and improved Rorq boosted fleet. However, I will not be able to dock said Rorqual into that Azbel after it is launched....... Which requires I spend more than double the money and make another risky Orca trip just to have a Fortizar to dock the Rorqual, or commit a pilot to man it 24/7 Titan style. Even if I HAD the Fortizar to dock the Rorqual with, if I ever decide that it should self-haul for the fleet (Inefficient as that may be), any ore that Rorq brings back would have to be shuttled from the Fortizar to the Azbel to reprocess and manufacture.

This stands out to me because it seems not in line with the spirit of what Engineering Complexes are intended to allow, which is an affordable, convenient place for industrialists to make a base of operations. Requiring a second, equally large, twice-as-expensive structure intended for defense rather than industry just to house the literal heart of my industrial operation seems somewhat odd. This could be overcome with something as simple as a Service Module that allows the docking of exactly 1 Rorqual in L Engineering Complexes. I'd happily pay the per-hour fuel cost to run a service module but only require the one structure, until the Rorqual has allowed me to acquire a Fortizar and/or Sotiyo. Even cooler, if you install this hypothetical module, it should be something visible from space which will make that Azbel a much juicier target, encouraging it's owners to buy or build bigger, meaner structures anyway. Plenty of risk for the reward of a Rorqual that is dockable in an Azbel.

TL;DR - Requiring an XL Engineering Complex or L Citadel to dock a Rorqual makes Industry life very challenging and un-intuitive for many Wormhole dwellers who plan to bring in a Rorq.

Otherwise, RAA is foaming at the mouth for the changes in Ascension! Thank y'all!
Now Life
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#354 - 2016-10-11 12:17:22 UTC
I like the idea of Engineering Complexes but what you are coming is weak.
64 M-Set engineering Rigs , Raitaru = 3rig slots (we need to install 11 Raitaru's ? )
32 L-Set engineering Rigs , Azbel = 3 rig slots
8 XL-Set engineering Rigs , Sotiyo = 3 rig slots

Now we just on-line and of-line POS modules in accordance with that you need them
When you get a wardec just stop research of-line Labs and online the guns/launchers and rest of defence.
Now with the Engineering Complexes take a seat and watch how your complex get in reinforset / destroyed.

Raitaru 9h /week vulnerability and no fichter bays and just 1 launcher
Azbel 18h / week vulnerability
Sotiyo 36h / week vulerebility
is that we do not have other things to do in EVE and / or real life

So the most valuable items(BPO's) of a corp / alliance we place them in the weakest and least self-defensive complexes.
Zerzzes Markarian
McCloud and Markarian Trade and Logistics Corp.
#355 - 2016-10-11 12:28:29 UTC
Will there be an extra post about the Engineering Complexes?

Overall, I think these look very nice. Some comments:

- Why was the copying removed from the Design Lab? Now you need both labs, if you want to do Tech II invention.

- Not being able to dock a Rorqual even to the large one make them much less useful.

- My main concern is that they are not really a proper replacement for POS for small industry corps. With a small POS, Labs, and Assembly Arrays you can start researching for a modest investment of 200M ISK and running costs of 10 blocks/hour. But even the smallest complex will be much more expensive and also the running costs are much higher. To do research and manufacturing, you need 60 blocks/hour.

- If they really drop materials that were used for production, that would be a great ganking target. Not sure that high-sec producer will like that. Is there a way to find out how much production is going on? Could the owners exploit that, by self destructiing it when they see that others are building stuff for 1T ISK?
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics
Rezeda Regnum
#356 - 2016-10-11 15:38:38 UTC
What about faction structures and bonuses for lowsec? I mean thukker assembly or so...

sry for my English :-(

Zad Murrard
Frozen Dawn Inc
Frozen Dawn Alliance
#357 - 2016-10-11 17:09:51 UTC
Given the fuel costs - without considerable nerfs to current alternatives I see no reason to build new industry structures if one is doing industry even semi-actively. Shocked
Zerzzes Markarian
McCloud and Markarian Trade and Logistics Corp.
#358 - 2016-10-11 18:00:16 UTC
Zad Murrard wrote:
Given the fuel costs - without considerable nerfs to current alternatives I see no reason to build new industry structures if one is doing industry even semi-actively. Shocked



You can open your labs and production lines for a small tax, so that other people pay for your fuel. But the more people building, the juicier the target becomes.
Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#359 - 2016-10-12 12:48:34 UTC
My question, and I am sure a lot of people share it, when are these going to be on Sisi so we can test them? We're already mid october and this should, given the six week cycle, go live on or around nov 22. Do we have any time frame on when we're actually going to get to play with these to see what they're like in practice as opposed to the theory?

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Je'ron
The Happy Shooters
#360 - 2016-10-15 09:43:14 UTC
Close this thread and continue on thread Dev blog: Building Dreams: Introducing Engineering Complexes