Missions & Complexes

I already have that part sorted

The only meta gaming going on here if from yourself, we have the hard numbers that show PVE is in a mess when looking at the way risk and effort is rewarded all across EVE and its not as black and white as you might assume.

I think we need to be clear here. Getting the high returns from mission running involves alts, some players don't have alts. So before people go using these threads for "nerf highsec income because people can make X amount of isk" propaganda, they need to remember that this isn't a single player (no alts) making this type of income.

So let's be clear.....

Making the high returns on mission running needs the following:

1. Alts
2. Multiple Bling ships
3. Little bit of luck.
4. Prep and setup (Investment and time getting standings setup)

So while some players will be able to do this, the initial entry to do this is high.

2. Multiple Bling ships
3. Little bit of luck.
4. Prep and setup (Investment and time getting standings setup)

These are correct however, especially no2 and 3, like holy damn is it a lot of prep work to get everything set up and at minimum 1y of skill training to actually reach 200mill/h. You get unlucky sometimes with a lost ship and a bad string of missions that, while it wont nuke your standing, will lower your income a little by forcing you to run more normal lv4s but in general luck isn't a huge factor.

In null it takes what, not even a month and your alt is in a decently fit Gila/Myrmadon/Vexor/etc so you can supplement your dps? The other problem I'm finding with the blitzing is it's pretty hard to really effectively run more than one character at a time, especially if it's two burners. I mean I'm working towards getting my 35mill SP alt to run missions too to really see how far you can push it but it's another 6 months before that. Is missing most of the necessary skills

Also so far only a tiny part of the HS mission running crowd is making more than 100mill/h on a GOOD day. Nerf missions and you nerf everyone from mr 2 month old new player (screw the NPE amirite!) to mr casual semi-afk full clear. With incursions, because it's so organized, everyone is getting a pretty decent income even if some fleets don't ever get the omg amazing once in a while 150mill/h. Null has some organization but I figure it's a bit more variable depending on the organization level.

You're either misunderstanding or twisting what I'm saying so I'll assume it's just misunderstanding.

- There is no way around the 1y limit. I checked, double checked and then triple checked. Even then you're running with the minimum required to blitz normal lv 4s (Meta 4 guns on the mach and having to use a cap booster instead of getting to use a sebo). Your burners dps also wont be maxed out so slower there too. Doing what my guide explains is kinda knife edge and faction/DED gear makes up for a lot of lacking skills. The difference between Caldari cruiser 4 and Caldari cruiser 5 when it comes to the Blood Base burner for example is DOUBLE the time. I tested it many, many times.

- My point regarding getting an ALT and training an ALT to help you run nullsec anoms is that that's how that kind of conent is best run, in my experience. You can't really do the whole ALT thing with blitzing lv4s it just doesn't work from what I've been able to test. You can have 4 alts or heck almost as many as you want in the same site (or hell different sites once they hit 6 months old whatever) and it won't have much of an impact on your isk per character; 60mill on the low end, 240mill/h total for 4 toons. I tested this as well when I WAS ratting in null. Do you get this point yet or do I have to explain it in more detail? HS and Null is different, get over it.

- Yes my alt was actually in a Myrm (a ****** one at that, all Meta 4) while my main was in a navy typhoon (Meta sentries and meta cruise launchers). I was racking in 100 mill/h in sansha space in a ****** system too. I could do 24mill ticks solo and do 16mill+ per character per tick when dual boxing. We were in a warzone and I never lost a ship. The potential is there easily.




I want to say you're better than this strawman BS but you've used them on me before so at this point I'll just point it out and leave it at that.


Incursion fleet income changes from one FC to the next (hilariously so sometimes) and as people cycle in and out. Every now and then theres luls where we're waiting for dps or logi. occasionally there a fleet contesting, there's a wall of bad sites and sometimes walls of good sites. Sometimes you're heavy on machs and light on vindies (Making the structure grind take longer). It evens out to a decent consistent isk/h sure but whe I ran incursions I wasn't that impressed with the isk/h. The wait time and travel time also suuuuuuuuuuuuucks. Oh and good incursion runners tip the boosters. I can appreciate how absolutely stupidly long it takes to train a full fleet booster.

Oh and let me tell about how BS some of the myths around wormholes are some time. Spent a good 6 months in various C5s and C6s, big corps and small ones. The gas was good though.

No no you can't

And because I know you know better I am going to just have to call you a liar.

In fact you can belt rat at a higher clip than a lvl 3 blitzer AND you don't have to ever deal with LP.

The only one lying here is you. This thread was originally about making a specific amount of ISK doing level 4 missions in high sec space, then all of a sudden you and Baltic jump in talking about how it's unbalanced compared to Null Sec and how you found a sympathetic ear with a CCP Dev at Player Events who is now working on changing the current status-quo..

Broken ? You flip flop your statements more than a fish does when it's out of water. Just because you play this game a certain way doesn't mean everyone else has to play the same way. That's what a sandbox is all about. The only thing that's actually broken here is CCP catering to a vocal minority that constantly claims high sec makes too much ISK for little to no risk.


DMC

If we are talking about the reason why new players hang around hisec instead of running off to SOV null to mine for some renter corp - I very much doubt mission/incursion returns are a big issue.

If the discussion is about why nullsec people spend more time in highsec alts then they do actually in null - PvE income is definitely one of the factors.

As others have said, no.

Tengu has better speed, range, application and is in general better at blizing lv3 missions than a mach. and Yet a fullt skilled 13au/s Tengu can't reach 100mill/h but you want a 1month old Machariel to do it? BAHAHAHAHA.

Here is an interesting way to look at it however. A near fully skilled rattlesnake does close to 1500 dps, Typhoon Fleet should get decently close to it and so should some of the faction blaster boats. Even a Max skilled Mach should get 1400. In null that should get you very close to 100mill/h but lets go with 75mill/h per character. This thread has Arthur use 3 faction battleships with ascendencies to run Lv4 missions and he's making at most 150mill/h. With those 3 ships he should be breaking 225mill/h in null easily, consistently and infinitely. And best part is you can just add more characters. Heck put them in different systems so when one gets camped you can continue to rat somewhere else.

In my case I realistically can't run more than one character doing what I do, it's just not feasible to run at that speed without making mistakes.

How is that fair? Because it's Null.

That's the point, Null works differently than Hi-Sec. If you're having trouble in Null you're *doing it wrong* just like how anyone not getting over 100mill/h in HS is *doing it wrong* (if the aim is isk/h otherwise do whatever )

You're comparing Hyper optimized 8 billion isk invested operations (Focussed on ONE character. Every character you add is another 8bill) to a single afktar in null (That shares the huge investment with a 40k user alliance and additional alts is the cost of a single ship). At the very least what I'm doing is worth a fully set up deathstar pos in a fully upgraded system and a ratting carrier. Start there and see what's easier to expand, what gives the most return the fastest and what has the higher cap; the null operation by adding alts or the Hi-sec operation by adding alts?

But you know all this, or you should...